Bathgate vs. Geoffrion vs. Mahovlich vs. Sid Abel
- Thread starter arrbez
- Start date
Good question, arrbez. I think in terms of sheer talent and upside, the Big M was definitely the best. In the all-time draft, he's definitely the one I have rated the highest. That's partly because he's the No. 3 LW of all-time, and elite LWs are so hard to find, especially compared to elite RWs. (I'd say there are six to 10 RWs better than my pick for the No. 4 LW, Dickie Moore).
The one strike against Mahovlich is the question I've heard so often: "Did we see the best of Frank Mahovlich?" I don't if we did, at least on a year-to-year basis. For a player of his size and skill, you'd expect more than a Calder Trophy. He had great competition for the awards, but you'd just expect more considering all he was blessed with.
Boom Boom Geoffrion is definitely my No. 2. The one thing you didn't mention is how good Boom Boom was in the playoffs. He hit double digits in playoff points eight straight years. An incredible accomplishment by any era's standard, even more impressive considering that they only played two rounds back then. Pro-rated over an 82-game schedule, he scored at well over a 100-point pace. His regular season record isn't that impressive, despite the awards (he scored 30 goals only four times) but in the playoffs, he was one of the best ever.
Andy Bathgate was a hell of a player. One of two players to eclipse 70 points in eight straight seasons during the Original Six. Some guy named Gordie was the other. Keep in mind it was a 70-game schedule back then, and players faced an HHOF goalie every night. I think Bathgate is on Boom Boom's level for the regular season. But I think the difference-maker is Geoffrion's playoff play.
Sid Abel is definitely a cut below the other three, but it's not a slight at Sid. He was an excellent all-round player. A star at left wing before the war, he served his country proudly. Then he had several stellar seasons on Detroit's famed Production Line with Howe and Terrible Ted Lindsay.
The one strike against Mahovlich is the question I've heard so often: "Did we see the best of Frank Mahovlich?" I don't if we did, at least on a year-to-year basis. For a player of his size and skill, you'd expect more than a Calder Trophy. He had great competition for the awards, but you'd just expect more considering all he was blessed with.
Boom Boom Geoffrion is definitely my No. 2. The one thing you didn't mention is how good Boom Boom was in the playoffs. He hit double digits in playoff points eight straight years. An incredible accomplishment by any era's standard, even more impressive considering that they only played two rounds back then. Pro-rated over an 82-game schedule, he scored at well over a 100-point pace. His regular season record isn't that impressive, despite the awards (he scored 30 goals only four times) but in the playoffs, he was one of the best ever.
Andy Bathgate was a hell of a player. One of two players to eclipse 70 points in eight straight seasons during the Original Six. Some guy named Gordie was the other. Keep in mind it was a 70-game schedule back then, and players faced an HHOF goalie every night. I think Bathgate is on Boom Boom's level for the regular season. But I think the difference-maker is Geoffrion's playoff play.
Sid Abel is definitely a cut below the other three, but it's not a slight at Sid. He was an excellent all-round player. A star at left wing before the war, he served his country proudly. Then he had several stellar seasons on Detroit's famed Production Line with Howe and Terrible Ted Lindsay.
Pwnasaurus
Registered User
You take Mahovlich over Dickie Moore? Everytime I watch game tapes Moore looks like the most skilled player on the ice as well as being the fastest which is saying a heckuva lot given his company in that era. Shame he got hurt when he did. He was still probably the best player on the expansion Blues team that got swept by Montreal even with no legs. I think his stats which are very good in their own right dwarf his skill a bit. In no way do I take anything away from Mahovlich, I just think Moore was the better player.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
I think Moore takes a bit of a rap for playing on such a brilliant line.
Big M is a tough one, talent wise, he's Beliveau good, but, he never consistently hit that level.
Big M is a tough one, talent wise, he's Beliveau good, but, he never consistently hit that level.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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Big M is #1 on that list for me. He won 6 Cups was a post season all-star 9 times and we never even saw his best in Toronto because of Imlach. Mahovolich was a huge factor on each of his Cup-winning teams.
Geoffrion is #2. He was a Hart Trophy winer, a two-time Art Ross winner and a 6-time Cup winner, being huge in all of those Cups. He was the 2nd player to hit 50 goals in '60-61 (you know the first)
Andy Bathgate is a very underrated player. A consistent top 5 scorer, hart Trophy winer in '59, Cup winner in '64 - scored the Cup winning goal too - and was a 4 time post season all-star.
Sid Abel despite being #4 on this list is still an all-time great. Hart Trophy winner in '49 and formed the famous production line with Howe and Lindsay. He was a 4-time all-star as well.
As for Dickie Moore, he is an often forgotten player. He wasnt a great skater because of breaking his leg when he was a child, but he had a lot of heart and determination. He was a two-time Art Ross Trophy winner. I'd put him in Bathgate's position at least.
Geoffrion is #2. He was a Hart Trophy winer, a two-time Art Ross winner and a 6-time Cup winner, being huge in all of those Cups. He was the 2nd player to hit 50 goals in '60-61 (you know the first)
Andy Bathgate is a very underrated player. A consistent top 5 scorer, hart Trophy winer in '59, Cup winner in '64 - scored the Cup winning goal too - and was a 4 time post season all-star.
Sid Abel despite being #4 on this list is still an all-time great. Hart Trophy winner in '49 and formed the famous production line with Howe and Lindsay. He was a 4-time all-star as well.
As for Dickie Moore, he is an often forgotten player. He wasnt a great skater because of breaking his leg when he was a child, but he had a lot of heart and determination. He was a two-time Art Ross Trophy winner. I'd put him in Bathgate's position at least.
#66
Registered User
Pwnasaurus
Registered User
There's a great story about Dickie Moore in the Doug Harvey Story book where Harvey recounts that in the Blues dressing room Moore once saw a player throw his jersey to the floor after a game and Moore grabbed him by the neck and made him pick up the jersey telling him that you don't treat a NHL sweater that way...or something to that effect....very intense dude...not as intense as the Rocket but pretty close.
