Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season

[YearlyLottery]

Maybe Barzal is posting insane stats because of his ridiculous speed.. It has very little to do with the system the Islanders have run.

Leafs also had an influx of talent and young players when they made the playoffs. Let's not act like they were in last place and said "okay now Matthews will lead us to the playoffs".

 

[BayStreetBully]

That's in the eye of the beholder. I'm not saying you're wrong in putting value to it. I don't think it means as much as you do, but then again it makes sense. It was your favorite team who was dead last and then made it to the playoffs the very next season. So I do understand why Leafs fans do consider what Matthews did more valuable because of that. On individual evaluation I don't find it to be all that important and it likely won't be for anyone outside of Leafs/Matthews fans.

I do think Barzal and Matthews rookie seasons are superbly close so far. I personally jump back and forth when trying to figure out which has been more impressive.

Playoffs is the tiebreaker for me. Matthews’ 40 goals was historic (only teenage rookie to be 2nd in league scoring, and only rookie other than Ovechkin to score 40 goals since 1993). On the other hand, Barzal has a few more points in a year when scoring is up overall throughout the league. That’s a tie, so I look to playoffs as tie-breaker.

 

[Plural]

Playoffs is the tiebreaker for me. Matthews’ 40 goals was historic (only teenage rookie to be 2nd in league scoring, and only rookie other than Ovechkin to score 40 goals since 1993). On the other hand, Barzal has a few more points in a year when scoring is up overall throughout the league. That’s a tie, so I look to playoffs as tie-breaker.

That's fair. It's just as good tie-breaker as anything you could figure out.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

I believe Matthews will be the better player in the future but for me Barzal has had more impresive rookie season than Auston.



So did Marner, Nylander, Zaitsev and Brown.

So Tavares, Lee, Eberle and Bailey are all scrubs then?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Wow. That's pretty cool tidbit. While I don't really think making the playoffs is something we should heavily evaluate players on (a lot of superb players have missed playoffs several times in their careers) that's interesting piece of info. Probably tells more about Babcock than it does any singular player in Leafs roster. For example, Ovechkin and Crosby both objectively had superior rookie seasons to Matthews and neither made the playoffs. That doesn't mean Matthews was somehow better in his rookie season.

I'm not saying this makes Matthews better than Crosby and Ovechkin, however at least he is making the playoffs in his first 2 seasons. Crosby never made them until his 2nd season and Ovechkin never made them until his 3rd season.

 

[cneely]

So Tavares, Lee, Eberle and Bailey are all scrubs then?

Pretty much their entire defence along with Halak and Greiss are. That's whats killing the Islanders more than anything.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

Pretty even when you don't consider age. Matthews has clearly more goals and Barzal is going to beat him in points, but when you factor in age draft +1 season vs draft +3 season, Matthews wins this hands down and is projecting to be a better player..

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Pretty even when you don't consider age. Matthews has clearly more goals and Barzal is going to beat him in points, but when you factor in age draft +1 season vs draft +3 season, Matthews wins this hands down and is projecting to be a better player..

Well Matthews and Barzal are the same age. A difference of 3 1/2 months.

I will say this when I read the D+1 and D+3 comments. Matthews was 2 days shy of being in the same draft. The difference is really not as big as people think when they use D+1 comments. Matthews was a very mature 19 year old that had the benefits of playing one pro season with men in the Swiss league prior to his first in the NHL. Barzal did not, when he went straight from the WHL to the NHL. There needs to be some context when D+1 and D+2 are mentioned. Regardless, head to head. Barzal is still out pointing Matthews this year, if rookie years is not enough a convincing case.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Well Matthews and Barzal are the same age. A difference of 3 1/2 months.

I will say this when I read the D+1 and D+3 comments. Matthews was 2 days shy of being in the same draft. The difference is really not as big as people think when they use D+1 comments. Matthews was a very mature 19 year old that had the benefits of playing one pro season with men in the Swiss league prior to his first in the NHL. Barzal did not, when he went straight from the WHL to the NHL. There needs to be some context when D+1 and D+2 are mentioned. Regardless, head to head. Barzal is still out pointing Matthews this year, if rookie years is not enough a convincing case.

I said this before and I will say it again. Matthews scoring 40 goals in his rookie season means a lot more and why his was better, no matter how many points Barzal gets.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I said this before and I will say it again. Matthews scoring 40 goals in his rookie season means a lot more and why his was better, no matter how many points Barzal gets.

You are entitled to your opinion. Barzal is 7 pts away from 80 points. He will be the first rookie to score 80 points in over a decade since Malkin did it. This is also significantly more than 69 points. Some would consider this a higher achievement. 80 point 20 year Center rookies do not score 80 points often. It's a very rare feat in today's game.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You are entitled to your opinion. Barzal is 7 pts away from 80 points. He will be the first rookie to score 80 points in over a decade since Malkin did it. This is also significantly more than 69 points. Some would consider this a higher achievement. 80 point 20 year Center rookies do not score 80 points often. It's a very rare feat in today's game.

It's not very often that rookie centres like Matthews also score 40 goals in their 1st NHL season.

Prior to Matthews the last rookie in general to score 40+ goals was Alex Ovechkin in 2006 when he scored 52 goals.

 

[cneely]

It's not very often that rookie centres like Matthews also score 40 goals in their 1st NHL season.

Prior to Matthews the last rookie in general to score 40+ goals was Alex Ovechkin in 2006 when he scored 52 goals.

There was another rookie on pace for 40 goals just last year though. 36 goals in 73 games works out to just over 40 for Laine. Granted, he didn't get there because he missed 9 games, but it's not as rare as you are saying.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's not very often that rookie centres like Matthews also score 40 goals in their 1st NHL season.

Prior to Matthews the last rookie in general to score 40+ goals was Alex Ovechkin in 2006 when he scored 52 goals.

Ovie scored 52 not 40. Let's not falsely equate the 2.

Crosby did score 39 one year. Laine scored 36 in 74 games. Malkin is the last rookie Center to score 80+ points, Barzal should be joining him if he can get another 7 points in his last 11 games. Even if he doesn't he will have significantly more points that Matthews got in his rookie year. And if you are a historian of Calder voting. The vast majority of time the Calder has been awarded to the highest scoring fwd when the 2 choices were fwds.

In this case it would be Barzal. So as I said to each is own. But voters usually vote for better points producer when assessing better rookie years.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Ovie scored 52 not 40. Let's not falsely equate the 2.

That's why I said Matthews 40 goals was the most in a rookie season since Ovechkin's 52 goals, because did you not see where I previously said the phrase 40+ goals when referring to Ovechkin? It's exactly what the media said last year and where I got that stat from.

 

[Lemontree]

What is rare is how much buzz a player has created without being able to touch the epic milestone of 20 goals in a season as of yet.

Matthews had 8 GWG last year but I suppose that isn't important.

Why is Barzal only being compared to Matthews in this poll, why not compare him to other elite young players such as Laine and McDavid.

He is destroying Laine in points this year but no mention of that, of course Laine is tied for the league lead in goals but some of us are being educated that goals are not anymore important and all points are created equal. Barzal's PPG is almost exactly what McDavid's was in his rookie year so you would think that Barzal fans should be comparing him to the games best young player and leave Matthews alone since Barzal left him in the dust weeks ago.

 

[LeafsNation75]

In this case it would be Barzal. So as I said to each is own. But voters usually vote for better points producer when assessing better rookie years.

So let's say last season Patrik Laine still ends up with 36 goals, however he gets 39 assists which would have given him a total of 75 points. Does that get him the Calder over Auston Matthews and his 40 goals and 29 assists for 69 points or do the voters still focus on Matthews 40 goals which is the more important number.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

That's why I said Matthews 40 goals was the most in a rookie season since Ovechkin's 52 goals, because did you not see where I previously said the phrase 40+ goals when referring to Ovechkin? It's exactly what the media said last year and where I got that stat from.

You seem to ignore points in posts and only selectively want to see points you want to reply to. If you are a historian of the game. You would know voting on the better rookie year, when it is between 2 fwds. The player with the most points overwhelmingly wins.

Right now Barzal is over a PPG into his 72nd game. this is a very rare occurrence in today's game. It is special what Barzal is accomplishing right now. He has already surpassed Matthews 69 points. So while you may want to weight goals as being more important. Voters don't look at it this way when assessing better rookie seasons. Assists are important too. You may want to look at who the career leader in assists in the NHL is. He is regarded as the 1-2 greatest players of all time.

 

[Slapshot Sultan]

Well Matthews and Barzal are the same age. A difference of 3 1/2 months.

I will say this when I read the D+1 and D+3 comments. Matthews was 2 days shy of being in the same draft. The difference is really not as big as people think when they use D+1 comments. Matthews was a very mature 19 year old that had the benefits of playing one pro season with men in the Swiss league prior to his first in the NHL. Barzal did not, when he went straight from the WHL to the NHL. There needs to be some context when D+1 and D+2 are mentioned. Regardless, head to head. Barzal is still out pointing Matthews this year, if rookie years is not enough a convincing case.

Well, this is about their rookie years so it doesn't really matter what Matthews has done this season (too bad for the injury).

But the fact still is, that Matthews was 1 year and 3,5 months younger in their rookie seasons, and that is a clear difference and makes it that more impressive..

 

[LeafsNation75]

You seem to ignore points in posts you only selectively want to see. If you are a historian of the game. You would know voting on the better rookie year, when it is between 2 fwds. The player with the most points overwhelmingly wins. Right now Barzal is over a PPG into his 72nd game. He has already surpassed Matthews 69 points. So while you may want to weight goals as being more important. Voters don't look at it this way when assessing better rookie seasons. Assists are important too. You may want to look at who the career leader in assists in the NHL is. He is regarded as the 1-2 greatest players of all time.

You also want to ignore the historical significance of Matthews 40 goal rookie season, because as others have mentioned something like that has rarely ever happened. Especially among centres which is harder for a rookie to do compared to a winger.

 

[wingnutks]

It's not very often that rookie centres like Matthews also score 40 goals in their 1st NHL season.

Prior to Matthews the last rookie in general to score 40+ goals was Alex Ovechkin in 2006 when he scored 52 goals.

Barzal is 1 assist away from having the second most assists by a rookie since 1993, only behind Crosby. Barzal actually has a decent shot at passing Crosby as well. We will see what happens. IMO the cut off for Barzal is to get to 83 pts... I dont know if he can do it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You also want to ignore the historical significance of Matthews 40 goal rookie season, because as others have mentioned something like that has rarely ever happened. Especially among centres which is harder for a rookie to do compared to a winger.

You don't seem to get it. I have no problem if you prefer Matthews 40 goals over Barzal's PPG status into his 73rd game for a rookie 20 year old center. It is extremely rare what he is doing right now. But I am telling you, historically for Calder voting when it is between 2 players, the award overwhelmingly goes to the highest scorer. Right now Barzal is just extending that lead.

 

[Lemontree]

You seem to ignore points in posts and only selectively want to see points you want to reply to. If you are a historian of the game. You would know voting on the better rookie year, when it is between 2 fwds. The player with the most points overwhelmingly wins.

Right now Barzal is over a PPG into his 72nd game. this is a very rare occurrence in today's game. It is special what Barzal is accomplishing right now. He has already surpassed Matthews 69 points. So while you may want to weight goals as being more important. Voters don't look at it this way when assessing better rookie seasons. Assists are important too. You may want to look at who the career leader in assists in the NHL is. He is regarded as the 1-2 greatest players of all time.

Are you for real? He is also the leading goal scorer in NHL history and point producer. Way to try and make it sound like assists are the reason Gretzky is the GOAT.

Ron Francis is 2nd among all time assists in NHL history yet you won't find his name near the top of people's greatest players of all time list.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Are you for real? He is also the leading goal scorer in NHL history and point producer. Way to try and make it sound like assists are the reason Gretzky is the GOAT.

Ron Francis is 2nd among all time assists in NHL history yet you won't find his name near the top of people's greatest players of all time list.

Playmaking was certainly one of Gretzky's greatest attributes. If not the greatest. But it's certainly up there 1-2.

 

[Lemontree]

Playmaking was certainly one of Gretzky's greatest attributes. If not the greatest. But it's certainly up there 1-2.

So where do you place Ron Francis within your top 5 NHL players of all time?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So where do you place Ron Francis within your top 5 NHL players of all time?

He would not be in the Hall of Fame had it not been for his playmaking. This is the better point for people that dismiss assists. Same applies to Adam Oates. Are they not Hall of fame worthy players?