Barracuda News and Discussion Part 4

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Fistfullofbeer

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From the Zach Frye article:

The native of Spokane, Washington, Frye, 23, participated in the Sharks Development Camp this past summer and just completed his senior season at the University of Alaska-Fairbanks where he paced the Nanooks in points (34), goals (11), assists (23), and penalty minutes (100), while skating in 35 games.

I am guessing him being almost 24 could be something to do with that. The closest player on that team in points had 23, in 1 more game.
 

Lebanezer

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From the Zach Frye article:



I am guessing him being almost 24 could be something to do with that. The closest player on that team in points had 23, in 1 more game.
I’m surprised the Barracuda signed another dman. They have Roy, Brodzinski, Fitzgerald, Bergman, Middleton and DeSimone signed through next season on NHL deals. Simek is an RFA, and supposedly the Sharks really like his progress. Maybe they’re gonna move some of those guys.
 

The Nemesis

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I’m surprised the Barracuda signed another dman. They have Roy, Brodzinski, Fitzgerald, Bergman, Middleton and DeSimone signed through next season on NHL deals. Simek is an RFA, and supposedly the Sharks really like his progress. Maybe they’re gonna move some of those guys.

Brodzinski seems like a good candidate to phase out given that he's been passed by basically everyone else on the depth chart and hasn't seized his opportunities. Also maybe they're figuring they just can't count on Roy with his injury history. Maybe this is also Simek insurance in the event that he decides to head back to Europe.
 

Lebanezer

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Brodzinski seems like a good candidate to phase out given that he's been passed by basically everyone else on the depth chart and hasn't seized his opportunities. Also maybe they're figuring they just can't count on Roy with his injury history. Maybe this is also Simek insurance in the event that he decides to head back to Europe.
That all makes sense, I'm kind of hoping they plan on signing another Undrafted college free agent like DeSimone. I can't imagine Shoemaker is gonna get an ELC. I figured Frye will probably play quite a bit in Allen no matter what happens above him.
 

The Nemesis

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That all makes sense, I'm kind of hoping they plan on signing another Undrafted college free agent like DeSimone. I can't imagine Shoemaker is gonna get an ELC. I figured Frye will probably play quite a bit in Allen no matter what happens above him.

I'm not going to get too far into it because I'm hanging onto a concept for something interesting to use in the off-season, but Shoemaker pretty much the worst prospect the Sharks have and it's not particularly close. I'd honestly question if he's got a pro future at any level of hockey, never mind any consideration for the Sharks signing him.

I know you can't get too worked up over a 6th round selection since the draft is nothing but lottery tickets at that point, but it pisses me off that we could've had Ty Ronning instead of wasting that pick on Shoemaker. And that the difference is stark between Shoemaker and the guy picked 30 selections after him with the penultimate selection of that draft, Joachim Blichfeld.
 

Lebanezer

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I'm not going to get too far into it because I'm hanging onto a concept for something interesting to use in the off-season, but Shoemaker pretty much the worst prospect the Sharks have and it's not particularly close. I'd honestly question if he's got a pro future at any level of hockey, never mind any consideration for the Sharks signing him.

I know you can't get too worked up over a 6th round selection since the draft is nothing but lottery tickets at that point, but it pisses me off that we could've had Ty Ronning instead of wasting that pick on Shoemaker. And that the difference is stark between Shoemaker and the guy picked 30 selections after him with the penultimate selection of that draft, Joachim Blichfeld.
The Sharks just suck at drafting defenseman because they target the worst defensive defenseman they can find. The list is long and hilarious.
 

hohosaregood

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The Sharks just suck at drafting defenseman because they target the worst defensive defenseman they can find. The list is long and hilarious.
At least we still have Ferraro. Sharks haven't had many promising defensive picks outside of Ryan, Roy, and Ferraro. Too bad Roy might be broken. 3 years of season ending knee injuries must be hard on the mind and body.
 

The Nemesis

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The Sharks just suck at drafting defenseman because they target the worst defensive defenseman they can find. The list is long and hilarious.

It feels like the logical extension of the same sort of draft philosophy that informs their general drafting strategy and their preference for the "safe" or "high floor" guy with intangibles and grit and all that stuff. At the high end they take the Norris/Coyle/Hertl/Mike Morris type guys who seem like they'll probably be something even if that means they won't be cornerstone 1st liners. Later in teh draft instead of taking high skill lottery tickets it turns into taking gritty grindy high-motor, high-work-ethic players that I guess they figure will work harder to make something of themselves, even if history proves that those types aren't necessarily less likely to totally bust.

You're right, Shoemaker is the latest in the long line of Watson, Ausmus, Parsells, Cukste, Sefton, Bielke types of rugged gritty lower-skill rearguards.

The funny thing is that the guys that make it tend to even start out as decent offensive d-men in the amateur ranks. Even DeMelo put up 27 points in his draft year. The guys in that list above had:

Bielke 25 pts in 47 GP (German Jr)
Cukste 15 pts in 56 GP (MHL)
Shoemaker 13 pts in 67 GP (OHL)
Sefton 11 pts in 66 GP (OHL)
Watson 8 pts in 58 GP (USHL)
Ausmus 7 pts in 26 GP (USHL)
Parsells 0 pts in 3 GP (USHL)

I don't have the research to bear it out, but it feels like there was a span in the mid-to-late 2000s where they picked more d-men with offensive pop, but most of them flamed out (Konrad Abeltshauser, Isaac MacLeod, Julien Demers, Sam Groulx, James DeLory, and Will Colbert) and they got gunshy about the idea of the boom/bust type.

Though that span also produced Vlasic (who had pop), Jason Demers (ditto), Braun (limited offence in draft year), and to a lesser extent Derek Joslin (offensively capable), so.... :dunno:

I could very easily simply be drawing an erroneous conclusion based on a really cursory look at the list and trying to support a pre-determined conclusion. I'd actually have to work on proving/disproving this idea.
 

Lebanezer

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It feels like the logical extension of the same sort of draft philosophy that informs their general drafting strategy and their preference for the "safe" or "high floor" guy with intangibles and grit and all that stuff. At the high end they take the Norris/Coyle/Hertl/Mike Morris type guys who seem like they'll probably be something even if that means they won't be cornerstone 1st liners. Later in teh draft instead of taking high skill lottery tickets it turns into taking gritty grindy high-motor, high-work-ethic players that I guess they figure will work harder to make something of themselves, even if history proves that those types aren't necessarily less likely to totally bust.

You're right, Shoemaker is the latest in the long line of Watson, Ausmus, Parsells, Cukste, Sefton, Bielke types of rugged gritty lower-skill rearguards.

The funny thing is that the guys that make it tend to even start out as decent offensive d-men in the amateur ranks. Even DeMelo put up 27 points in his draft year. The guys in that list above had:

Bielke 25 pts in 47 GP (German Jr)
Cukste 15 pts in 56 GP (MHL)
Shoemaker 13 pts in 67 GP (OHL)
Sefton 11 pts in 66 GP (OHL)
Watson 8 pts in 58 GP (USHL)
Ausmus 7 pts in 26 GP (USHL)
Parsells 0 pts in 3 GP (USHL)

I don't have the research to bear it out, but it feels like there was a span in the mid-to-late 2000s where they picked more d-men with offensive pop, but most of them flamed out (Konrad Abeltshauser, Isaac MacLeod, Julien Demers, Sam Groulx, James DeLory, and Will Colbert) and they got gunshy about the idea of the boom/bust type.

Though that span also produced Vlasic (who had pop), Jason Demers (ditto), Braun (limited offence in draft year), and to a lesser extent Derek Joslin (offensively capable), so.... :dunno:

I could very easily simply be drawing an erroneous conclusion based on a really cursory look at the list and trying to support a pre-determined conclusion. I'd actually have to work on proving/disproving this idea.
The Sharks just had a habit of drafting at least one of those guys every year. MacLeod belongs in the list of dmen devoid of offensive ability as he scored 2 goals and 27 points in 4 years in college. You could also include Wrenn, DeLory and Julien Demers in that category. Another disturbing trend of theirs was drafting large, strong dmen with questionable skating ability and/or hockey IQ like Taylor Doherty, Alexis Vanier and to a lesser extent Nick Petrecki. This past year was very encouraging with the drafting of Ferraro, and the signing of Simek and DeSimone. At least it looks like they're heading in a positive direction in terms of the attributes they're targeting. We'll see if they stick to it.
 

The Nemesis

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The Sharks just had a habit of drafting at least one of those guys every year. MacLeod belongs in the list of dmen devoid of offensive ability as he scored 2 goals and 27 points in 4 years in college. You could also include Wrenn, DeLory and Julien Demers in that category. Another disturbing trend of theirs was drafting large, strong dmen with questionable skating ability and/or hockey IQ like Taylor Doherty, Alexis Vanier and to a lesser extent Nick Petrecki. This past year was very encouraging with the drafting of Ferraro, and the signing of Simek and DeSimone. At least it looks like they're heading in a positive direction in terms of the attributes they're targeting. We'll see if they stick to it.

My assessment of offence was mostly based on draft year, not afterward. MacLeod put up 23 points in 56 games in his draft year with Penticton (BCHL). The fact that he and several others fell off and had poor post-draft developments is less symptomatic of "what the Sharks expected when they drafted the player" and more "the sort of thing that might've scared them off of drafting similar players in the future"

It seemed like hte Doherty/Petrecki/Ausmus/Watson/etc types were a reaction to the failure of the other group. They swung and missed on a bunch of guys who showed good scoring instincts in their draft year, so they went the opposite direction and picked guys who they thought would succeed on their physical gifts and "intangibles" instead of their skill output.

Whatever doubts people have..

I don't mean to be combative about it, but I'm just not sure how that's really relevant in this case. Prospects proving people wrong usually has to deal with players who have the requisite skill but suffer from one of the following issues:

a) They lack some physical dimension that is felt to be necessary. IE guys who are too small, too slow, lack a booming shot, etc.

b) They have some 'intangibles' red flag like work ethic questions, a non-traditional background, come from a less-well-regarded league, etc. that some people would think either means they're less likely to fulfill their potential or that they were a "big fish in a small pond" type prospect.

c) They were well-regarded but suffered a down year that makes people question whether or not they were as good as originally thought.

d) They were considered to be coat-tail riders coasting on the success of teammates or propped up by the strength of their team and it's questioned whether or not their success and performance was their own.

Brodeur is none of those. He was an OKish OHL goalie who got an invite to Blue Jackets prospect camp likely on the back of being Marty Brodeur's son, had a good over-age OHL season, and then is now having an OK ECHL season ahead of getting the call to the Cuda. There's nothing to prove wrong because there was simply nothing to think about him in the first place. He was and is simply a low-end goalie prospect who's been middling/acceptable in his career and hasn't really shown anything yet that would make anyone think he's any more than what he is. I don't necessarily doubt him any more than any other non-prospect. I simply don't consider him to be anything more or less than any other non-prospect to begin with. If he wasn't the son of one of the greatest goaltenders of all time, he probably wouldn't be getting a second look from most people.
 
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SharkieFan

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Ugly game tonight. Barracuda were facing 7 men on the ice most of the night. Worst referee pair I've seen all year, I think. Both teams were taking liberties, but Cleveland got away with a couple. Martin and Frye both had players skate by and take their feet out from under them. Chartier took a cross check to the back and went awkwardly into the boards. Chartier stayed down for a minute and it looked like he wrenched his knee, but he got up and continued playing, thankfully. Helewka took a hit late in the game, which I didn't see, but he couldn't put any weight on his right leg when they helped him off the ice. It didn't look good. He went down and stayed down and needed a lot of help getting to the locker room. He looked like he might have put a little weight on the leg heading down the tunnel, so maybe it's not horrible news for him. Fingers crossed.

On the good side, McCarthy with the hat trick Balcers, Mashinter, and Helewka all with goals as well. Helewka's goal was a thing of beauty. Mashinter with a Joe Thorton-esque no look pass behind him to a wide open Helewka who had an entire net to shoot at.

I thought Frye looked decent tonight. Except for the part where he took a penalty and couldn't figure out which box to go into. Oops.
 

SharkieFan

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18 not 28

Well, they're down to 15 games left after last night, which means they've won the first 3 of their final 18.

Definitely a tall order, as you said, but if they pull it off, they'll go into the playoffs as a red hot team. Gonna be an interesting last few weeks either way!
 
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