Balsille Signs Arena Deal with Hamitlon....
- Thread starter Kitsune
- Start date
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
Teams will go to markets where owners want to own them. Conversely, the reason cities lose NHL teams is because no owner can be found that wants to operate the team in the market.
GHOST
the Oilers then struck a deal to land their affiliate essentially in Toronto's backyard, mooseoak, w/ the assistance of one Lyle Abraham( the lease disintegrated at the end of the '03-04 season; then the abrupt move to Edmonton in August of that year angered most AHL Fans when it was announced(that's the one reason why the AHL has yet to achieve the equivalent of the NHL footprint of 30 w/ a 1-1 affiliate)
I'm not a troll. I'm a 17 year hockey fan from New Hampshire/Massachusetts. I'm not trying to start trouble. I'm just arguing my point. That's what these boards are for. I apologize if I offended some, but those are my opinions.
Didn't KC already fail once? Why do Atlanta and KC get a second chance when Winnipeg/Quebec/Hartford only get once chance?
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
- 78,654
- 53,123
What are you talking about, Columbus has one of the best new fanbases going. People are always praising Ohio.
What are you talking about, Columbus has one of the best new fanbases going. People are always praising Ohio.
OK, maybe I'm wrong about Columbus. I was going on what Ohio residents told me. I (and the media) just don't think of it as a major league city. We are apparently wrong about Columbus. I can admit that. I'm right on the others.
I think you just missed the entire point of his comment. He was saying it's about growing the popularity of the game. Moving a team to Hamilton isn't going to draw more hockey fans just divert them. Moving a team to a fresh market is going to make new hockey fans which is better for the league/sport in general..
I just find it funny when it came up that the Pens were moving everyone came out in full force to yell at everyone and call them team stealers but alot of those same people are cheering for another canadian team. Kind of funny when the direction goes from a "Non traditional" hockey market to a Canadian one how everyone reacts.
Anyway it still has to be approved by the NHL and I think this may just hurt his chances. NHL doesn't want to move another team to a place where there is already hockey watching populous they want to expand the game, they can make a whole lot more money that way. Do you make more money when one person stops using one of your products just to use another? Well Balsillie will make more money, NHL wont. I think the NHL will do just about everything in their power to stop Balsillie from moving the team to Hamilton.
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Fraserburn
Registered User
Columbus just has a poor on ice product which seems to be mostly Sir Doug MacLean's fault and he is no longer there
despite their relative ineptitude et al they have developed a decent fan base and they get the short end of the stick because people assume Ohio is a football state and thats it
There has been professional hockey in Ohio since the 20's
I didn't miss the point. It just made me think of a question, so I asked it. I'll try again. Why do major (I use the term loosely in KC's case) US cities get multiple chances when other cities are left for dead?
When did KC get a second chance? Kansas City after the Scouts left (now the NJ Devils, btw) has shown in various leagues since that it supports a franchise for a certain length of time(the longest being the Blades, but that had more to do w/ the league than the market itself(it just happened to conflict w/ the AHL Bylaws about owners owning multiple franchises as that's common in lower levels of hockey.
Were the Outlaws supported in their one and only season in the UHL TO SUSTAIN HOCKEY in KC? Apparently not.
Atlanta as Winnipeg, Hartford and Quebec shown got more than one chance, Ruzicka38, it depended on either one or a multitude of 2 factors, Arena or support of a franchise's stability or finances, as is the case w/ Leipold selling Nashville here.
Winnipeg & Hartford have recovered from their being an NHL City and adapted to hockey, just perhaps not to the degree that was presented before. Would Winnipeg be talked about had True North not replaced Winnipeg Arena w/ the MTS Centre and not have the Moose as a tenant there despite efforts to undermine the success thereof of that franchise. The Rangers did the same thing; they saw the opportunity in Hartford when the Whalers left for Carolina; it just the inability or inaction in certain states to get what they thought they earned as we saw the protracted struggle to get Mellon Arena either replaced as it will be or remodeled and how do states and government entities agree on how to do that efficiently.
Buffaloed
webmaster
I doubt the lease allows the owner to engage in actions that serve no other purpose than to deliberately discourage ticket sales so he can break it. He's put the NHL in a tough position.
It hasn't. I just read about it being considered. Thanks for answering part of the question. I'm not getting the best responses to my comments/queries.
kdb209
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2005
- 14,870
- 6
Because owners/ownership groups in those cities (Atlanta, Minnesota, and I suppose you could argue San Jose, and potentially coming soon KC) have put their money where there mouth is (bought a team or paid an expansion fee) and as (or more) importantly secured new arenas.
Has an ownership group stepped forward in Winnipeg or Quebec or Hartford and tried to put it's money on the table and buy a team and build/secure an NHL calibre arena (The MTS Centre falls just a bit short).
The only way Winnipeg or Quebec is going to get a team is the Balsillie route - a rich local owner being willing to overpay for an existing franchise, willing to build an arena, and be potentially willing to suffer losses in a below average NHL market.
yqw, I can't say I'm surprised to read why you're not getting the answers you deserve.
Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
The difference is that Hamilton clearly should have been granted a franchise when they bid for one in the early 90s. Their bid was clearly superior to both Ottawa and Tampa Bay's, and was only rejected because of the Leafs and Sabres, and then the league continued to expand to markets that weren't as ready for a team as Hamilton. So in some sense you could say that their should have been a team in Hamilton instead of Nashville anyway. Pittsburgh entered the league a lot earlier, before Hamilton made as much sense as it does now.
Balsillie forked over $220M for the team and will therefore be able to move it wherever the heck he wants. I would assume the only way the NHL could possibly block the move is to find another owner who will match Balsillie's price, or buy control of the team themselves and flip it to a new owner and take the loss. Both seem pretty unlikely to me.
Your assertion that the league will make more money by moving the franchise to a new market is very tenuous. They didn't, after all, make more money by expanding to Nashville. A healthy franchise in Southern Ontario that contributes positively to the revshare pool and generates excitement about the game and the league in the world's biggest hockey market could very easily be just as profitable for the league in the long run as going to a "non-traditional" market. At this point the league needs more strong franchises a fewer embarassments.
Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
The NHL can't ignore the GH market forever. Even if this play by Balsillie doesn't work out, the GH market is one of the fastest growing regions in North America. By the end of this year the population will be nearly 8.5 million people, and it's projected to grow to 11.5 million people by 2030 with hockey being #1. In other pro sports, most markets of that size have multiple teams. Chicago, LA, and NY have multiple baseball teams. LA and NY have multiple basketball teams. The same will inevitably be true for the GH and hockey, so the NHL should really just support Balsillie and get this done now.
MAROONSRoad
f/k/a Ghost
This is more or less a fair statement if by "below average NHL market" we are nonetheless talking about markets that could be better than many current NHL markets.
There are ownership groups in Hartford, Winnipeg and Kansas City that have been poking around according to media reports. Harford and Kansas City made offers for the Predators according to media reports and a Winnipeg group had been "hovering" over that franchise for the last year and half according to a Globe & Mail journalist. Obviously, none of these ownership groups were willing to pay 220 million USD for a franchise, which by most accounts was a suprisingly large sum, although we don't know the details of how the payment is structured.
GHOST
Owch don't attempt to be insulting or anything.... Anyway it's exactly why I stated. You really think a team failing 30 years ago has alot of baring on whether a team will fail or succeed now? The reasons US teams are getting prefference is because the NHL wants to get new fans not just take them from other teams. Move a veiwer from one team to another your not going to make more money for the NHL and you are going to still lose the Nashville viewers.
Hmm so I'm guessing you don't understand how this works. To buy the team he has to sign an agreement with the NHL which will include the same clause he rejected with pittsburgh which wouldn't allow him to move the team for 7 years. Even Leopold stated that clause would be inacted at the sales press conference. As long as their is a lease in place he wont beable to move the team and the clause that would get them out of the lease will have to be enacted in a time frame that is BEFORE Balsille could even get approval for the league so it's not in his hands.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,201
- 8,607
1. Atlanta's problem the first time around wasn't lack of fan support, it was lack of stable ownership. Atlanta had a plan to bring stable ownership and market a team; that's why they got a 2nd chance.
2. Kansas City's problem was a combination of attendance and unstable ownership. Their problem likely won't be ownership if they get a 2nd chance - it'll be whether people will actually show up.
3. Le Colisee is a complete dump by NHL standards, and Quebec City has shown no interest in building a more suitable NHL arena.
4. Hartford: see Quebec City.
Semantics
PUBLIC ENEMY #1
Are you still in college? Let me summarize how business in the real world works: everything is negotiable. Doubly so if you have money.
But in this case it may be even simpler than that. It sounds to me like all Balsillie needs to do is invoke the out clause in the lease, forking over whatever penalty he has to pay to break it, and then bam, there's no lease and the 7-year agreement with the NHL no longer applies.
Regardless, all you need to do here is use some common sense. Balsillie clearly wants to move the team. Balsillie is a savvy businessman. Balsillie has smart lawyers working for him to do the due dilligence. Balsillie would not have signed an intent to purchase if there was a chance he might not be able to move the team. And, to reiterate, everything is negotiable. All of these "agreements" are nothing more than formalities and technicalities to work around. The team will be moved. Sorry.
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Keep in mind that places like Atlanta, Denver, and potentially KC, had to wait nearly 20 years or more for their second chance. They are also in different situations. All of those markets are growing, all of those markets have decent corporate bases, and all of those markets have good arenas.
Winnipeg's growth is stagnant by comparison on top of being ridiculously small by comparison, the buisness community is not nearly as large, and it has an insufficient arena. Quebec City is actually shrinking, and has massive tax scheme issues, no arena and little corporate base to draw from.
You are arguing based on a sense of entitlement. Economic reality does not work that way.
Simply put, Balsillie did not pay nearly a quarter of a BILLION dollars for a hockey team barely worth half that much to keep it in a failing market. If he bought the team with the desire to move it, you can be absolutely certain that there is an agreement between him and the league over where, when and how he moves the Preds. He would not have put his signature on a cheque otherwise.
Leopold has stated that the Preds will be in Nashville next year, and unknown after that.
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