Rumor: Babcock linked to Pens rumors

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
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Is there any way to match the quality of competition up against those stats?

well there is but one would have to go through all the shift charts from the games... probably not worth doing the work for a week (or however long it would take) as they probably correlate pretty well with normal QoC's. we pretty much know what lines were sheltered and what not and players roles changed so significantly for F's through-out the season and so on.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
Looking at our defensive corps... Edler and Ehrhoff would both be a major upgrade on D IMO.

Anything better that and we're looking more at giving up Nyquist or Mantha IMO.

Yeah, either of those guys slot in as our second best D. I'm sure there are better D available for the right price, but those guys would be pretty significant moves.

I think Byfuglien is an interesting target. If Winnipeg really slots him in at forward, have to wonder if that's what they'd want in return to fill that spot. Or if they're looking for left handed D. Smith for Byfuglien? Same with San Jose and Thornton. they say they are moving Burns back to D, but would they rather trade for a D and keep Burns at forward? don't know.

Truth. I don't even know if we can get appropriate value out of Tats, but he is probably our most movable asset where we hope the return is right and it isn't terrible for us. He should wind up a pretty good player, in fact going to the Sabres or Vancouver where he can get better minutes might help him on an individual level.

We will see, I kind of expect Babcock to start punishing him for turnovers next year. The one thing about Tats is he does have that amazing drive we like our players to have in terms of that inner fire for greatness. I just wonder in terms of a fix he is the realistic target and guy we want to move. I don't think he is a bad player, but I am not sure his ceiling gets as high as some want it to be. Turnovers are likely to exist on some level given how he plays the games, if he sticks around I want that area to be much better.

But if we are shooting higher than Ehrhoff and Edler which is fine because we are likely adding on Tats for them, it is going to get even more expensive. Some of these kids that we like are going to go soon probably as soon as this summer, just the numbers dictate it at this point. We could probably wait one more year or into the season, but should be a lot of tire kicking and seeing who values which kids and for what.

I think Tatar is going to be Hudler v.2. Great middle6 wing who will thrive on finding mismatches against lesser lines/opponents, but who gradually plays himself out of Detroit because of money. And none of that is a knock on either of those guys.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,198
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Yeah, either of those guys slot in as our second best D. I'm sure there are better D available for the right price, but those guys would be pretty significant moves.

I think Byfuglien is an interesting target. If Winnipeg really slots him in at forward, have to wonder if that's what they'd want in return to fill that spot. Or if they're looking for left handed D. Smith for Byfuglien? Same with San Jose and Thornton. they say they are moving Burns back to D, but would they rather trade for a D and keep Burns at forward? don't know.

My preference for trade targets for fix on defense:

1. Mike Green (easily my preferred choice.)

2. Byfuglien (really want a RH. Big time producer.)
3. Ehrhoff (like him, skates well, moves the puck well.)
4. Edler (been in a slump for longer than Id prefer, still like him as a player)
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Nov 8, 2007
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I think Tatar is going to be Hudler v.2. Great middle6 wing who will thrive on finding mismatches against lesser lines/opponents, but who gradually plays himself out of Detroit because of money. And none of that is a knock on either of those guys.

I think they play different style hockey, but otherwise that's a pretty fair comparison and I mostly agree. We have such a wealth in young winger talent at the moment though. In 2-3 years, our wing depth looks like: Zetterberg/Datsyuk, Mantha, Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar, Pulkkinen, Janmark, Franzen. That's a lot of top 9 winger depth.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
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My preference for trade targets for fix on defense:

1. Mike Green (easily my preferred choice.)

2. Byfuglien (really want a RH. Big time producer.)
3. Ehrhoff (like him, skates well, moves the puck well.)
4. Edler (been in a slump for longer than Id prefer, still like him as a player)

I'd take any of these guys, it all depends on value though. Who'd be the least expensive vs. the most expensive. They're all top 3 defensemen, which we of course need.
 

AD1066

Registered User
Sep 30, 2011
7,597
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My preference for trade targets for fix on defense:

1. Mike Green (easily my preferred choice.)

2. Byfuglien (really want a RH. Big time producer.)
3. Ehrhoff (like him, skates well, moves the puck well.)
4. Edler (been in a slump for longer than Id prefer, still like him as a player)

I've seen Mike Green play a decent amount as the Caps were my favorite team in the East until we got here. He's pretty talented offensively but is inconsistent on D and also has trouble staying healthy. Questionable decision making in his own end, and if I'm not mistaken he's being used in a #3 role nowadays. Carlson and Alzner are their best defensive pair by a substantial margin. Could help on PP defintely, but honestly I think I'd prefer the other three over him.

Contracts:

Green: 28 years old - signed through 2014/2015 - 6.08 M AAV
Byfuglien: 29 years old - signed through 2015/2016 - 5.2 M AAV
Ehrhoff: 31 years old - signed through 2020/2021 - 4.0 M AAV
Edler: 28 years old - signed through 2018/2019 - 5.0 M AAV
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
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Philadelphia
I've seen Mike Green play a decent amount as the Caps were my favorite team in the East until we got here. He's pretty talented offensively but is inconsistent on D and also has trouble staying healthy. Questionable decision making in his own end, and if I'm not mistaken he's being used in a #3 role nowadays. Carlson and Alzner are their best defensive pair by a substantial margin. Could help on PP defintely, but honestly I think I'd prefer the other three over him.

Contracts:

Green: 28 years old - signed through 2014/2015 - 6.08 M AAV
Byfuglien: 29 years old - signed through 2015/2016 - 5.2 M AAV
Ehrhoff: 31 years old - signed through 2020/2021 - 4.0 M AAV
Edler: 28 years old - signed through 2018/2019 - 5.0 M AAV

I'd love to see Green with Dekeyser, personally. I think they'd be perfect compliments. Green drives possession, and Dekeyser would compensate for whenever Green doesn't have the puck.
 

AD1066

Registered User
Sep 30, 2011
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I'd love to see Green with Dekeyser, personally. I think they'd be perfect compliments. Green drives possession, and Dekeyser would compensate for whenever Green doesn't have the puck.

Yeah they would work well together. Though I don't think he and Kronwall would have much chemistry at all.

It's a decent chunk of change for a #3/4 dman but the term is only through next year and unused cap space is of not any benefit to us.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
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I've seen Mike Green play a decent amount as the Caps were my favorite team in the East until we got here. He's pretty talented offensively but is inconsistent on D and also has trouble staying healthy. Questionable decision making in his own end, and if I'm not mistaken he's being used in a #3 role nowadays. Carlson and Alzner are their best defensive pair by a substantial margin. Could help on PP defintely, but honestly I think I'd prefer the other three over him.

Contracts:

Green: 28 years old - signed through 2014/2015 - 6.08 M AAV
Byfuglien: 29 years old - signed through 2015/2016 - 5.2 M AAV
Ehrhoff: 31 years old - signed through 2020/2021 - 4.0 M AAV
Edler: 28 years old - signed through 2018/2019 - 5.0 M AAV

I'd love to acquire Green or Buff.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,198
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I've seen Mike Green play a decent amount as the Caps were my favorite team in the East until we got here. He's pretty talented offensively but is inconsistent on D and also has trouble staying healthy. Questionable decision making in his own end, and if I'm not mistaken he's being used in a #3 role nowadays. Carlson and Alzner are their best defensive pair by a substantial margin. Could help on PP defintely, but honestly I think I'd prefer the other three over him.

Contracts:

Green: 28 years old - signed through 2014/2015 - 6.08 M AAV
Byfuglien: 29 years old - signed through 2015/2016 - 5.2 M AAV
Ehrhoff: 31 years old - signed through 2020/2021 - 4.0 M AAV
Edler: 28 years old - signed through 2018/2019 - 5.0 M AAV

Given how badly we need a right hander (in my opinion), I tend to lean more towards Green and Buff.

I think Green is better defensively than Buff, and maybe coming to Detroit could revive his offense a bit.

His durability is only my real concern.

Out of the LH options I prefer Ehrhoff over Edler, but again, I want a righty. I think the Wings do too ideally.
 

Chance on Chance

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Jul 15, 2009
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My preference for trade targets for fix on defense:

1. Mike Green (easily my preferred choice.)

2. Byfuglien (really want a RH. Big time producer.)
3. Ehrhoff (like him, skates well, moves the puck well.)
4. Edler (been in a slump for longer than Id prefer, still like him as a player)

I think Byfuglien would fit in good here on the 2nd pairing. It would give us so many different looks for our D pairings. Does Smith stsy with Kronwall and big E moves to the 3rd pairing making the 3rd pair a million times better? Or do we have Byfuglien and E on a pair as some towers of power
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
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We should also remember that when healthy, Big and Kronner are a formidable top pairing IMO. Not top notch of course. But good enough. Need someone to go with DD and for Smith to take the next step. Perhaps Smith can develop into a offensive #2.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
Given how badly we need a right hander (in my opinion), I tend to lean more towards Green and Buff.

I think Green is better defensively than Buff, and maybe coming to Detroit could revive his offense a bit.

His durability is only my real concern.

Out of the LH options I prefer Ehrhoff over Edler, but again, I want a righty. I think the Wings do too ideally.

agree about desiring a RHer. Babcock always talks about it, and he does everything in his power to shoehorn a rightie onto the powerplay.

I would wonder if we don't make a move to upgrade the blueline first, and if that means we sign/trade for a leftie, we don't then pull a separate trade for a right hander. What we expect to happen aside, assume we sign Markov through free agency. Do we then turn around and deal Smith for a guy like Byfuglien or Green? At the very least it opens up the possibility.

Yeah they would work well together. Though I don't think he and Kronwall would have much chemistry at all.

It's a decent chunk of change for a #3/4 dman but the term is only through next year and unused cap space is of not any benefit to us.

The term works in our favor to a degree, though. Assuming we don't gut the farm in trades, we know Datsyuk is gone in a few years, Z and Franzen will be slipping into elder statesmen, and some guys in GR will (hopefully) be at the end of their ropes and in need of a spot. So, Green moves on. Not the worst thing in the world for us or him, depending on what we would give to acquire him. Maybe we even trade him in that last year if a kid looks good enough.
 

Vladdy84

L-O-Y-A-L-T-Y
Dec 1, 2011
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agree about desiring a RHer. Babcock always talks about it, and he does everything in his power to shoehorn a rightie onto the powerplay.

I would wonder if we don't make a move to upgrade the blueline first, and if that means we sign/trade for a leftie, we don't then pull a separate trade for a right hander. What we expect to happen aside, assume we sign Markov through free agency. Do we then turn around and deal Smith for a guy like Byfuglien or Green? At the very least it opens up the possibility.



The term works in our favor to a degree, though. Assuming we don't gut the farm in trades, we know Datsyuk is gone in a few years, Z and Franzen will be slipping into elder statesmen, and some guys in GR will (hopefully) be at the end of their ropes and in need of a spot. So, Green moves on. Not the worst thing in the world for us or him, depending on what we would give to acquire him. Maybe we even trade him in that last year if a kid looks good enough.

Really don't wanna trade Smith. He's started to show promise. The sky is the limit with him. And there's no guarantee that XO, Sproul or Marchenko will be anything but bottom pairing D men.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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My preference for trade targets for fix on defense:

1. Mike Green (easily my preferred choice.)

2. Byfuglien (really want a RH. Big time producer.)
3. Ehrhoff (like him, skates well, moves the puck well.)
4. Edler (been in a slump for longer than Id prefer, still like him as a player)

Yeah the right-handed target is big, I think Green should be in P1 as well and have pushed this for a little while now.

Green is a much better defender these days than he used to be, his health issues concern me though, especially with as shoddy as we have been in that department lately.

Buff has issues, though I think long-term the idea of Sproul and either of those two might not pan out. At least should Sproul really work we could station Buff in front on a #1 PP. I still think having both of these on one team is going to be hard to manage given their turnover and positioning malfunctions. Green might be good enough defensively now and safe enough he and Sproul remain on a team together, though one will wind up with 2nd PP minutes. But for the fix now Mike Green is the guy I want and I think Tatar+ should get that done.

I would like to protect Smith and DeKeyser while doing this deal.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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I think Byfuglien is an interesting target. If Winnipeg really slots him in at forward, have to wonder if that's what they'd want in return to fill that spot.

Why I like Buff is that you could actually have a net front guy on the powerplay that's good at it. If the Wings are going to stick to that model, you can't do better than Big Buff screening and slamming in rebounds. Dude single-handedly dismantled Luongo on his last Cup run. :laugh:
 

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
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i'm not sure if green would excel here that much that it would justify the price to get him.

i agree with AD's assesment. i haven't missed a caps game in 3 years and watched them fair amount prior that and really don't see him getting back on what he was before 2010.

he also doesn't play physical, shies away from contact a bit. though coaches might have told him so he wouldn't get injured.

i think he needs to be allowed to free-wheel to get the best out of him, that's why oates system was a killer. babs system is more structured and dman aren't allowed to skate as much or take as many chances.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
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babs system is more structured and dman aren't allowed to skate as much or take as many chances.

Generally I agree, but we saw Smith below the goal line quite often during that Boston series.

When is the last Red Wing defender that was able to play that type of game? The team hasn't had a smooth skating offensive defender in some time.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,862
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the underrating of deker meech continues.

and Brett Lebda

the team was foolish to let him get away

notice how much the team has declined since we lost him? hell the main reason we lost so quickly is 2009-10 was probably because he only played 2 games in the playoffs
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,753
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Cleveland
Really don't wanna trade Smith. He's started to show promise. The sky is the limit with him. And there's no guarantee that XO, Sproul or Marchenko will be anything but bottom pairing D men.

I don't want to trade Smith, either. But if we're getting back a guy between like Byfuglien, it's a move that's okay to me. If we're getting back a big, point producing, minute eating D, who isn't 35 yrs old, that's a pretty good return.

Why I like Buff is that you could actually have a net front guy on the powerplay that's good at it. If the Wings are going to stick to that model, you can't do better than Big Buff screening and slamming in rebounds. Dude single-handedly dismantled Luongo on his last Cup run. :laugh:

Yeah, it'd go over real well here sticking Buff in front of the goalie so we can have Glendening and his right handed man-cannon on the point. :laugh:
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,200
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the underrating of deker meech continues.

Something tells me you're going to see a lot of that. :laugh:

Yeah, it'd go over real well here sticking Buff in front of the goalie so we can have Glendening and his right handed man-cannon on the point. :laugh:

I like the way you think.

Mainly I was thinking they'd run an umbrella with Kronwall firing. That's basically what happens now anyway. But that's probably because they don't have a big shot righty.
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,659
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I mean, what is location, really
Really don't wanna trade Smith. He's started to show promise. The sky is the limit with him. And there's no guarantee that XO, Sproul or Marchenko will be anything but bottom pairing D men.
I'd trade Smith for a healthy Green, personally. I think they're somewhat similar players. Both skating-centric RD who get their points with smart pinches. Both cost their teams at times with bad pinches. Green doesn't bring that same edge, though, and he has a pretty scary injury history.

Really, I think I'd just like to get Smith away from Babcock. Even if not on the Wings, it's just a shame to see him get shut down like this by his coach. Then again, who's saying Babcock wouldn't give Green the Smith treatment? At least he's right-handed...
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,817
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Really don't wanna trade Smith. He's started to show promise. The sky is the limit with him. And there's no guarantee that XO, Sproul or Marchenko will be anything but bottom pairing D men.

I've been a huge Smith fan since he was drafted and it just hasn't come together here. I think he's one of the few assets we have who has real trade value. In order to get a good player in return you need to trade good roster players.

So if Winnipeg isn't convinced they can keep Byfuglien on defense then they may want a legit offensive d-man to replace him. In that case Smith is a good trade piece that helps us secure a RH offensive d-man.

I like Smith and it would be great if it all came together for him here in Detroit, my big concern is that he'll never put it all together here and with Kronner, Dekeyser and Ericsson all locking down top 4 roster spots and lots of talent coming up through the pipeline he'll end up moving on as an UFA who we will lose for nothing.

Babcock has made it clear we need a RH d-man. Ideally we get that guy via trade so he can quickly become a 50+ point d-man here.
 

waltdetroit

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,649
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If we are going to trade, I'd like to see something like the Murphy trade - future considerations for a decent Dman who is out-of-favor with his team - but just who, I don't know. I don't really want to lose any of our prospects for Edler or Ehrhoff. Maybe Byf if our scouts think he can fit in and prosper. Definitely don't want Green at $6 mill for what he might bring - and at a high trade cost
 

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