Post-Game Talk: Babcock and "Gud Pros" let Leafs down AGAIN!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
12,892
9,750
The Leafs did outplay Boston for like 40 minutes. Leafs goaltending was bad, Boston were very clinical with their chances and Leafs couldn't get a bounce to go their way.

I think that performance was much better than the previous. Still bad and many of the big players didn't show up. Rielly was just terrible as were the line changes leading to 2 on 1s.
We outshot them and I think Chances were pretty even. Our goalies it seemed could only make saves on peripheral shots (and sometimes struggled on those), while Rask was a wall.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ziggdiezan

MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
6,270
2,253
I was looking through the Bruins forum pgt, and they seem to think they were outplayed for 40 minutes, but that our goalies played like blind drunk psychopaths.

Funny that hardly anybody is taking about goaltending here... The two fan bases have very different views of the game.
I think literally everyone knows we got into a hole only due to goalies/bad puck luck (like what, 3 deflection goals?). And we could whine a bit about the refs too, sure the PPs equaled up in the end but giving a team a 4-1 lead in PPs when there was plenty of calls going missed is crazy too.

But who is responsible for the things we can control (not refs/puck luck/goalie performance) is Babcock first and foremost, and then the players. A horrid game readiness to start to game one, the 3rd period of game 1 and 3rd period of game 2 is where I find it most responsible on Babs through changing up how we played to try to grind out a safe game, not loading up our lines and shortening the bench, etc etc. Hell hes had 4 blatant bench mistakes with the 2 too many men penalties, missing the offsides challenge, and forcing Dermott to change when there wasn't enough time. those are most definitely purely on Babs.

That's probably why most discussion is on Babs and the players.
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
10,847
5,676
We outshot them and I think Chances were pretty even. Our goalies it seemed could only make saves on peripheral shots (and sometimes struggled on those), while Rask was a wall.
Pastarnak also scored on every shot it seemed. Way too much time in the slot with no pressure.
 

Ziggdiezan

Registered User
Apr 10, 2015
10,847
5,676
I think literally everyone knows we got into a hole only due to goalies/bad puck luck (like what, 3 deflection goals?). And we could whine a bit about the refs too, sure the PPs equaled up in the end but giving a team a 4-1 lead in PPs when there was plenty of calls going missed is crazy too.

But who is responsible for the things we can control (not refs/puck luck/goalie performance) is Babcock first and foremost, and then the players. A horrid game readiness to start to game one, the 3rd period of game 1 and 3rd period of game 2 is where I find it most responsible on Babs through changing up how we played to try to grind out a safe game, not loading up our lines and shortening the bench, etc etc.

That's probably why most discussion is on Babs and the players.
The biggest mistake Babcock made was trying too hard to chase the matchups leading to a ton of really badly timed line changes.
 

MR4

Registered User
Oct 20, 2014
6,270
2,253
The biggest mistake Babcock made was trying too hard to chase the matchups leading to a ton of really badly timed line changes.
Yep. If you are the away team and trying to hard match, you're making a mistake no ifs ands or buts about it. You're supposed to make the home team chase the matchups and score when they make mistakes doing it
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
12,632
4,105
GTA or the UK
The heart surgeon deserves to get criticism from his peers...who know what they are talking about. Not some random forum poster who watches the game holding a beer on his couch who's never coached a day in his life and likely doesn't understand completely what it is he is looking at.

Well I guess you can criticize him that's your right to have an opinion. It's just my right to tell you, that you don't know anything. If you did...YOU would be coaching in the NHL.

So fans arent allowed to criticize? LOL.
 

Tak7

Registered User
Nov 1, 2009
12,632
4,105
GTA or the UK
I really hope this is the last we have seen of Koma. Either we start winning and he doesn't get to see the ice or we lose and he leaves in the summer.

I feel like its virtually a given that he's offered a cheap 1-year deal for next season.

He's playing bottom 6 minutes with 0 offensive production - i dont think he will have many other suitors.

Id expect him back.
 

luvdahattymatty

Registered User
Apr 8, 2018
511
405
Just got back a 12 hour drive through freezing rain and snow. I am too old for this stuff that was my last one. lets all bring a positive attitude to rink tomorrow night. Hope they just simplify their games. Let Babs make the lines. Pray Anderson was just a victim of poor defence and bad bounces. Bring da speed. Hope defence can just cover net front and not let Bruins get behind them. Hope Matthews can lead the team. KISS.
 

AvroArrow

69 for Papi
Jun 10, 2011
18,104
18,342
Toronto
In my opinion, does not excuse the performance.

Except that game 2 was the result of terrible goaltending and some terrible missed calls by the officials. The compete level from all our skaters was there, Gardiner played like shit, Rielly was average at best but overall we competed with them. Our goaltending was horrific, they got away with 2 penalties, directly leading to their first 2 goals. Then another missed call when they went up high on Marner AGAIN, and Hainsey got the only penalty, resulting in a 3rd goal directly related to a missed penalty. Officials were brutal, hopefully they wake up and start doing their job sometime soon.

I don't think we played overly well, but if those calls are made we at least have a chance to win game 2. Can't miss calls like that.

JVR Boarded
DeBrusk plays with a broken stick, we get a penalty moments later
Hit up high on Marner
Countless hooks
 

Dough72

Registered User
Sep 3, 2008
1,937
742
I’m at the point where I’m not sure I can ever again route for a group of people that are capable of such cowardice and gutlessness. Right now I just feel embarrassed for ever allowing myself to be a fan of such disgraceful people.
personally I think the Leafs have passed the tough-guy test with flying colors. The team isn't losing because they haven't shown fight, they're losing because they can't play hockey at the same time. At least not as well as Boston can. I could see losing respect for a team getting discombobulated when they get hit, I don't particularly like teas like that either, but I haven't seen anything cowardly from them I've seen hainsey sticking up for teammates, kadri sticking up for teammates, kappanen sticking up for teammates, Matthews crosschecking chara right back and standing up for himself, reilly and gardiner fighting like hell against nash, Hyman smashing people, jvr smashing people, even mitch marner has been throwing out hits. I actually gained respect for them on the tough-guy side it just sucks they can't play hockey at the same time like a team of "gud pros" can (still can't fathom why people are using "this" series to make fun of old-school pros but whatever)
 
Last edited:

Loosie

The Eternal Optimist
Jun 14, 2011
16,074
3,046
Kitchener, Ontario
Yesterday with Matthews’ “**** happens” and today with Bozak’s “No reason to get frustrated”.

I get they are just looking towards the next game, and wanting to forget the games in Boston, but man, I wish someone seemed pissed off by the past two games.

Matthews was pissed, but also have to control your emotions. If you are too unhinged going in it's only going to make it worse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Willchel Marlynder

Loosie

The Eternal Optimist
Jun 14, 2011
16,074
3,046
Kitchener, Ontario
Just for historical purposes, when was the last time Leafs won a series after being down 0-2? I know it's probably been a hell of a long time because it never happened since I have been following (since 2001).

I'm fairly certain it's been referenced in this thread, but it's 1993 1st round against Detroit Red Wings. e lost the first 2 games 6-3 and 6-2.
 

56 Years No Cup

New and Improved Username!
Nov 12, 2007
7,860
6,810
We have gotten absolutely embarrassed and just a couple of players have shown any pride, and just a couple of players have played to any kind of standard. The whole lineup have been dreadful, and you argue that they should avoid almost all blame because the coach played the wrong player in the wrong spot, even though he wasn't the one victimized?

That's absurd.


Yeah. Babcock being the plug that he is, decided to keep together a PP that have converted at over 40%, one of the best stretches of PP hockey in years.

Of course, he should have burned it to the ground. If not for Komarov, they would have had 80% eh?


Which is exactly what he's done. Perhaps you should pay attention.


You should learn what elementary means, because it's not what you think. If Babcock forgot to play left wingers in his lineup, that would be an elementary mistake. If he put the goaltender at center and the PP coach in goal, that would be elementary mistakes.

And who said it's just about the second year players? The whole team shares the blame, including the coach, as the whole team has performed so bad that they are the laughing stock of the league right now. Their play has been absolutely dreadful, and absolutely chock full of brutal mistakes.

None of that is on anybody but themselves. Just like Babcock's mistakes are on nobody but himself. You are going to some ridiculous lengths here to exonerate them from any responsibility.

Nith, I consider you to be one of the more reasonable posters here. So, I don't understand how even you think that the "blame" problem is an EITHER/OR proposition.

It is in fact likely that BOTH are to blame. IMO Babcock does not put his players in the best position to succeed. That said the players are still underperforming.

I blame all of them for this piss poor effort.

However, the bottom line is that the coach is still held responsible, because you can't trade all of the players. The leader takes the blame.

EDIT: MISREAD YOUR POST. IT APPEARS WE ARE ON THE SAME PAGE.
 

kihei

McEnroe: The older I get, the better I used to be.
Jun 14, 2006
42,675
10,244
Toronto
At this stage, while anything can happen, I just want to see improvement in the next game, a sense that they have some fight in them win or lose.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
I think literally everyone knows we got into a hole only due to goalies/bad puck luck (like what, 3 deflection goals?). And we could whine a bit about the refs too, sure the PPs equaled up in the end but giving a team a 4-1 lead in PPs when there was plenty of calls going missed is crazy too.

But who is responsible for the things we can control (not refs/puck luck/goalie performance) is Babcock first and foremost, and then the players. A horrid game readiness to start to game one, the 3rd period of game 1 and 3rd period of game 2 is where I find it most responsible on Babs through changing up how we played to try to grind out a safe game, not loading up our lines and shortening the bench, etc etc. Hell hes had 4 blatant bench mistakes with the 2 too many men penalties, missing the offsides challenge, and forcing Dermott to change when there wasn't enough time. those are most definitely purely on Babs.

That's probably why most discussion is on Babs and the players.
The early PP advantage can be a huge factor in the outcome! Then the refs try to even it up later it seems. Playing with the lead is simpler than trying to comeback!
I agree with the responsibility of the needless bench minors,however ,someone on these boards insists its on the player.
Maybe that's true,not sure!
Wasn't happy with Babs strategy, but he isn't the one out there!
 

56 Years No Cup

New and Improved Username!
Nov 12, 2007
7,860
6,810
Yeah and Hyman was demoted, but according to your Babcock can't do wrong logic, we need to hold 20 year olds accountable and not 50 year old cup winning and gold medal winning coaches.

And maybe if Babcock had the logic to ice his BEST lineup at all times, it wouldn't be that bad. Also hilarious you get mad at people using hyperbole, but you do the same.

Calling the lineup "dreadful" is a vast overstatement, the game was tied 1-1 halfway through the first game, we were dominating the 1st game and even almost tied it up despite Komarov's awful penalty. The common theme though is:

1. People succeeding like Kapanen who Babcock refused to play at the start of the year or even Hyman and not being rewarded for it, meanwhile guys that are objectively awful like Komarov being given free reign to be awful without consequence.

>Yeah. Babcock being the plug that he is, decided to keep together a PP that have converted at over 40%, one of the best stretches of PP hockey in years.

Please don't tell me you are not getting the argument, you do realize that you can succeed IN SPITE of what you do right? You also realize that regular season/=playoffs where 50% of the league is really bad? The PP is awful and maybe if Babcock had the common sense to double shift Mitch or JVR in place of Komarov, it would be better, actually it would for sure be better because Komarov is an offensive dead end and he makes our PP 4 on 4, even Martin would be better because he's not a little daisy like old man withered Komarov is now.

No he hasn't, if he did why was Komarov on the PP at all?

Maybe you should learn what it means, although it's obvious you can't argue with what I'm saying so you're doing gotcha arguments "HURR DURR, YOU DIDN'T USE THE WORD ELEMENTARY IN THE WAY I WANTED IT USED, I'M GONNA PRETEND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID."

Where have I exonerated the team? Again hyperbolic nonsense claims, the team has been bad and Babcock has put them in an awful position to succeed. The whole point is that despite the team's bad play, the games could've been MUCH closer than they were were it not for Babcock's stupidity, game 1 got away because our PP sucked which is kinda what happens when you absolutely INSIST on playing two lines (the top one including an AHL tier player) and not just double shifting your best players and the 2nd game got away because of Komarov's awful penalty which came from him being put on the top line which he has NO business being on.

Here are your arguments:
Ignorance of Babcock's awful moves (demoting Hyman, promoting Komarov, playing Komarov at all, not pushing Kap or Andre up top, not double shifting our best players)
Completely misusing data citing SEASON statistics as if they should 100% translate in the playoffs
Not understanding basic logic in that you can succeed DESPITE what you do sometimes and not because of it (i.e our PP and Komarov)
Word games which is hilarious that you're trying to give native English speakers English lessons when you know exactly what I meant
Strawmanning of me excusing the team when I merely PRIORITIZE blame, i.e I'm not going to say "hurr durr, it's all the same, all mistakes are the same, bla bla egalitarian approach" no there are less and more severe mistakes and I can actually trace back to Babcock's mistakes DIRECTLY costing us

Your only real argument would be to say that I don't know what would happen if Babcock did what I said he should do which is literally a trillion times better than the absurd paragraph you posted which underscores and abdicates a STANLEY CUP/GOLD MEDAL WINNING coaches responsibility to his team to do extremely simple things like icing the best lineup, being flexible and not being dogmatic.

Epic post. Epic. And I agree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: definedMF

Drytoast

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
6,357
4,530
Another useless Babcock Defense League™ Appeal to Authority Fallacy.

Awesome post dude! :thumbu::(:rolleyes:

I don't think there is a coach in all the planet that would escape your keen hockey mind.

Me thinks your wasting your time sharing your hockey insight with us lowly hockey fans...you should be coaching bud! Job starts at 6 mil a year. Go get your worth!
 
Last edited:

56 Years No Cup

New and Improved Username!
Nov 12, 2007
7,860
6,810
I don't think there is a coach in all the planet that would escape your keen hockey mind.

Me thinks your wasting your time sharing your keen hockey insight with us lowly hockey fans...you should be coaching bud! Job starts at 6 mil a year. Go get your worth!

Keep it going' dude! You rock!:thumbu:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad