Awesome tidbit of Babcock/Glendening news

[Pavels Dog]

Super weird, I know, but Sheahan has been pretty good in Pittsburgh this year. No sign of the guy we saw last year.

Being on a great team that's been firing on all cylinders helps, but it's also just more evidence of just how little Blashill has managed to get out of players.

 

[Claypool]

No offense, but when the biggest argument for leaving a franchise in the middle of their window of championship contention, is that they don't have enough history of being good decades ago, that's not a great resume for departure.

The majority of current players and personnel don't base their decisions on the fact that Montreal used to win every other Cup before color TV was around, or how Ottawa was good nearly a hundred years ago.

Do they run a good ship?
Do they treat players well?
Do they win?
Those are important things in the PRESENT, not the PAST.

Not to mention, the fact that he signed a 4 year extension in 2014 is a decent indicator that HE cares about that franchise.

Ok, let me know when he signs that contract extension this offseason.

 

[jkutswings]

Ok, let me know when he signs that contract extension this offseason.

So if he re-signs, all is well in Florida.
But if he leaves, it's automatically because of the perceived (lack of) prestige of the franchise?

That's like saying Scotty Bowman went to advise Chicago because Detroit's players took too long to buy into his philosophy.

I fully expect Yzerman to sign an extension in Tampa. But if he ends up leaving, there are a long list of reasons more logical than ''prestige" (which hasn't been an issue with keeping his key players, including Stamkos, who passed on two Original Six franchises in Toronto and Detroit).

 

[Redder Winger]

You better believe Vinik will match any offer. Yzerman is making him a lot of money right now.

Still. Ilitch can't outspend for players. He might just do it to bring Yzerman home.

 

[Claypool]

So if he re-signs, all is well in Florida.
But if he leaves, it's automatically because of the perceived (lack of) prestige of the franchise?

It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, obviously. My point is the GM position of the Detroit Red Wings is a much higher profile job than the one in Tampa. It's a position that will always be highly desirable, much like any original six management or coaching job.

 

[kliq]

No offense, but when the biggest argument for leaving a franchise in the middle of their window of championship contention, is that they don't have enough history of being good decades ago, that's not a great resume for departure.

The majority of current players and personnel don't base their decisions on the fact that Montreal used to win every other Cup before color TV was around, or how Ottawa was good nearly a hundred years ago.

Do they run a good ship?
Do they treat players well?
Do they win?
Those are important things in the PRESENT, not the PAST.

Not to mention, the fact that he signed a 4 year extension in 2014 is a decent indicator that HE cares about that franchise.

Those are the main reasons, and I don't think someone will leave a team because they lack pedigree, but franchise pedigree does mean something. I have heard players time after time talk about how playing for an original 6 team feels special. I think if all things are equal, that can be a difference maker.

 

[kliq]

But in that situation, you leave after you win. It makes no sense to leave before you win.

And even then, no GM is going to leave right after the cup win. He's not going to win this year and turn around, decline to give it another shot, and sign with Detroit.

Again though, you are looking at it 100% from a professional stand point, don't ignore the personal side of it.

 

[jkutswings]

Those are the main reasons, and I don't think someone will leave a team because they lack pedigree, but franchise pedigree does mean something. I have heard players time after time talk about how playing for an original 6 team feels special. I think if all things are equal, that can be a difference maker.

As in any single factor, it's a spectrum. For some players, it will be a very big deal. For others, it's a nice perk, but not mandatory. For still others, it's of no value at all.

But all tangents aside, I don't see Yzerman leaving Tampa Bay, for Detroit or anybody else, at least for another 3-5 years.

 

[kliq]

As in any single factor, it's a spectrum. For some players, it will be a very big deal. For others, it's a nice perk, but not mandatory. For still others, it's of no value at all.

But all tangents aside, I don't see Yzerman leaving Tampa Bay, for Detroit or anybody else, at least for another 3-5 years.

I agree with the bold. Also, I also agree with the Yzerman thing, but if it did happen I wouldn't be shocked.

 

[Winger98]

Something else about Yzerman and Tampa, it's his legacy as a GM. He's built up a very good team there, this is his opportunity to build up a resume as not just a great player who was a good manager, but as a great player and manager. Maybe he could come to Detroit and do it again, too. Maybe not. I'm not sure what really pulls Yzerman away from this opportunity to establish his legacy as a general manager.

 

[kliq]

Something else about Yzerman and Tampa, it's his legacy as a GM. He's built up a very good team there, this is his opportunity to build up a resume as not just a great player who was a good manager, but as a great player and manager. Maybe he could come to Detroit and do it again, too. Maybe not. I'm not sure what really pulls Yzerman away from this opportunity to establish his legacy as a general manager.

It would be a lot harder on the Wings to. Not taking anything away from him, but lets not forget, when Yzerman came to TB he had 2 building blocks in Stamkos and Hedman. Having an elite 1C and 1D is absolutely huge. He would have to still find that if he came here.

With that being said, if Yzerman came home, it would be because of the business side of things, it would be personal.

 

[Redder Winger]

It would be a lot harder on the Wings to. Not taking anything away from him, but lets not forget, when Yzerman came to TB he had 2 building blocks in Stamkos and Hedman. Having an elite 1C and 1D is absolutely huge. He would have to still find that if he came here.

With that being said, if Yzerman came home, it would be because of the business side of things, it would be personal.

True.
But how many guys did Holland have in the stable when he became GM?
Fedorov.
Yzerman.
Lidstrom.
Shanahan.

If I was Stevie and I won the Cup, I'd think hard about leaving if the Ilitches paid me.
I'd probably think hard either way, for that monster paycheck.
But especially if I already won the cup

 

[kliq]

True.
But how many guys did Holland have in the stable when he became GM?
Fedorov.
Yzerman.
Lidstrom.
Shanahan.

If I was Stevie and I won the Cup, I'd think hard about leaving if the Ilitches paid me.
I'd probably think hard either way, for that monster paycheck.
But especially if I already won the cup

I'm not discrediting Yzerman, thats not my point at all.

My point is that Yzerman would have a much harder job building the Wings back up in comparison to TB. I think some fans think its a given that if Yzerman comes here things WILL turn things around just like they did in TB. I think he has a good shot, but he would lack those core pieces to start off with, hence making it harder.

What Holland did or did not do is immaterial here, not everything needs to be about Holland

 

[Henkka]

But in that situation, you leave after you win. It makes no sense to leave before you win.

And even then, no GM is going to leave right after the cup win. He's not going to win this year and turn around, decline to give it another shot, and sign with Detroit.

And Tallon did exactly this at Chicago.

If Yzerman wins the Cup this year and his contract will end at 2019, he is not leaving before a win. His big decision of the future comes at this summer.

Maybe he tries to win 5-in-a-row who knows. But salary cap is very tough obstacle to be beaten. He could like to build again something new. Some guys just like the building process.

 

[Claypool]

True.
But how many guys did Holland have in the stable when he became GM?
Fedorov.
Yzerman.
Lidstrom.
Shanahan.

He's been with the organization since 1985. I still don't understand why people continue to push a narrative that Holland simply showed up one day and was given the keys to the team. He absolutely helped build that team and certainly paid his dues.

 

[kliq]

And Tallon did exactly this at Chicago.

If Yzerman wins the Cup this year and his contract will end at 2019, he is not leaving before a win. His big decision of the future comes at this summer.

Maybe he tries to win 5-in-a-row who knows. But salary cap is very tough obstacle to be beaten. He could like to build again something new. Some guys just like the building process.

Agreed, but they are in a pretty good place right now. All their core pieces are locked up for a at least a few years. The next BIG contract for them will be Kucherov and possibly Point, but that is not until 2020. By that time the cap should go up quite a bit, and Callahan's deal is much more tradable.

Side note, did anyone notice how many ex Rangers the Lightning have? Ryan Callahan, J.T Miller, Ryan McDonagh, Dan Girardi, and Anton Stralman. Never realized that.

Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[kliq]

He's been with the organization since 1985. I still don't understand why people continue to push a narrative that Holland simply showed up one day and was given the keys to the team. He absolutely helped build that team and certainly paid his dues.

Was he Director of Amateur Scouting when that core was drafted?

 

[Claypool]

Was he Director of Amateur Scouting when that core was drafted?

1985-1987 - Amateur Scout - Western Canada
1987-1994 - Director of Amateur Scouting
1994-1997 - Assistant General Manager
1997 -Present - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations and General Manager

 

[kliq]

1985-1987 - Amateur Scout - Western Canada
1987-1994 - Director of Amateur Scouting
1994-1997 - Assistant General Manager
1997 -Present - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations and General Manager

That's what I thought, and it was'89 I think that our core outside of Yzerman was pretty much drafted.

 

[InjuredChoker]

1985-1987 - Amateur Scout - Western Canada
1987-1994 - Director of Amateur Scouting
1994-1997 - Assistant General Manager
1997 -Present - Ex. VP of Hockey Operations and General Manager

kenny became chief amateur scout in 1990. eliteprospects is wrong. kenny's own words, neil smith was the chief amateur scout until 1990 when he left for NYR GM job.

Holland, one of the club's amateur scouts, first learned of Lidstrom during the Red Wings' mid-winter scouting meetings in 1989.
"Christer Rockstrom (European scout) and Neil Smith (chief scout) told us they found a player off the beaten path," Holland said. "They were tucking him away and he was going to be our third pick."

A testament to Red Wings' 1989 draft: Nicklas Lidstrom poised for Hall of Fame, maybe Sergei Fedorov, too

 

[Flowah]

Being on a great team that's been firing on all cylinders helps, but it's also just more evidence of just how little Blashill has managed to get out of players.

Or... how talent elevates all players.

Who is our Crosby? Malkin? Letang? Kessel?

 

[jkutswings]

Or... how talent elevates all players.

Who is our Crosby? Malkin? Letang? Kessel?

Glendening, Abdelkader, Daley, and Helm.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Or... how talent elevates all players.

Who is our Crosby? Malkin? Letang? Kessel?

Well Sheahan was a darn fine player centering Jurco and Tatar while Dats and Z were out. And I don't think he's playing with Crosby/Malkin much.

But yeah, being on a better team helps as I said.

 

[Flowah]

Well Sheahan was a darn fine player centering Jurco and Tatar while Dats and Z were out. And I don't think he's playing with Crosby/Malkin much.

But yeah, being on a better team helps as I said.

Jurco is struggling in Chicago.

Is Quenneville a bad coach? Jurco struggled in Babcock's last year on the team. 3/15 in 63 games. Is Babcock a bad coach?

Some players just have bad years or good years. What is Nate McKinnon doing right now compared to previous years? No one on the team declined or regressed like Sheahan under Blashill. I think it's pretty obvious most of that was on the player + bad luck + bad team.

 

[Redder Winger]

He's been with the organization since 1985. I still don't understand why people continue to push a narrative that Holland simply showed up one day and was given the keys to the team. He absolutely helped build that team and certainly paid his dues.

Holland had nothing to do with Yzerman, Lidstrom and Fedorov.
He might have played some kind of role in Shanahan, but not much.