Awesome Auston Discussion thread

[BayStreetBully]

Eich did not earn his contract and McDavid can't carry the whole team just yet. Cap problems occur when you pay Draisaitl $8.5M.

Precisely. All 3 were overpaid.

Anyways, in Lou we trust. Matthews can sign a fair $10 million deal. If he must, let him hold out for a month, before craving that paycheck his teammates are getting in October.

 

[ToneDog]

Precisely. All 3 were overpaid.

Anyways, in Lou we trust. Matthews can sign a fair $10 million deal. If he must, let him hold out for a month, before craving that paycheck his teammates are getting in October.

McD may not be overpaid and his contract kicks in next year. Matthews has earned at least $10M and nobody on the team can begrudge him when he gets it. Hopefully Willie and Mitch start hitting the back of the net and earn their next contracts.

 

[BayStreetBully]

McD may not be overpaid and his contract kicks in next year. Matthews has earned at least $10M and nobody on the team can begrudge him when he gets it. Hopefully Willie and Mitch start hitting the back of the net and earn their next contracts.

Well then, you and I will have differing opinions on the statement “Matthews has earned at least $10M”. I agree he will get that, but I’d be interested in how he’s earned $10 million when 3 Stanley Cups is what got Toews and Kane $10 million as 27 year old UFAs and 8 years of NHL service. Is it Matthews’ one season of 40 goals and 70 points? A 21 year old Matthews should be grateful for that amount.

 

[Mess]

$10 million x 8 years is not playing hardball. It’s more than fair for someone coming off an ELC. Edmonton overpaid for McDavid and Draisaitl, and then Buffalo followed suit. Winnipeg doesn’t overpay for their players, and I’m confident neither will we. Lou will simply tell our youngsters that they will be paid competitively, but that the Leafs won’t be gouged.

Matthews won’t sign an offer sheet. The headache is not worth it. Hypothetically, if Matthews ever did sign an offer sheet elsewhere for $12 million after we initially offered him $10 million, the Leafs would then be forced to grudgingly match, and then Matthews would lose all goodwill with the fans and media. Then he’s stuck with being known as a greedy sob for the next 8 years, and only winning us a cup will cure that, and not before. No, Auston will know better than that.

NYR offer sheet Matthews $15 mil per X 7 years max = $105 mil to steal him away, while Leafs offer him as you suggest $10 mil X 8 years max = $80 mil take it or leave it offer.

+$25 mil can buy a lot of aspirin for the headache to subside for Auston.

Now I don't believe Matthews will force an offersheet on the Leafs because I believe they will negotiate in good faith and not play hard ball, and pay him what he deserves and that is going to be north of $10 mil and likely closer to McDavid contract. He will end up after the ink dries as a top 5 NHL salaried player.

PS. Leafs begrudgingly matching is how the CBA works for players/agents forcing teams to pay market value or lose the player for draft pick compensation if they don't match. Its business !!!!

Like it not other contracts have moved the scale upwards as comparables.

 

[ToneDog]

Well then, you and I will have differing opinions on the statement “Matthews has earned at least $10M”. I agree he will get that, but I’d be interested in how he’s earned $10 million when 3 Stanley Cups is what got Toews and Kane $10 million as 27 year old UFAs and 8 years of NHL service. Is it Matthews’ one season of 40 goals and 70 points? A 21 year old Matthews should be grateful for that amount.

He slots between Eich and McD. That is the pay scale that the league has set. Matthews earned his contact because he won the Calder and had a big part in the Leafs making the playoffs last year and is even better this year. $10.5 million when Toews and Kane signed is more than $10.5 today and Matthews is already a better player than Toews and Kane (in my mind).

 

[ToneDog]

NYR offer sheet Matthews $15 mil per X 7 years max = $105 mil to steal him away, while Leafs offer him as you suggest $10 mil X 8 years max = $80 mil take it or leave it offer.

+$25 mil can buy a lot of aspirin for the headache to subside for Auston.

Now I don't believe Matthews will force an offersheet on the Leafs because I believe they will negotiate in good faith and not play hard ball, and pay him what he deserves and that is going to be north of $10 mil and likely closer to McDavid contract. He will end up after the ink dries as a top 5 NHL salaried player.

PS. Leafs begrudgingly matching is how the CBA works for players/agents forcing teams to pay market value or lose the player for draft pick compensation if they don't match. Its business !!!!

Like it not other contracts have moved the scale upwards as comparables.

As it stands I don't think Rangers can offer $15M. It might be $12.5 that McD got. What is the max percentage of the cap they can offer ? Even so, you make a good argument.

 

[BayStreetBully]

NYR offer sheet Matthews $15 mil per X 7 years max = $105 mil to steal him away, while Leafs offer him as you suggest $10 mil X 8 years max = $80 mil take it or leave it offer.

+$25 mil can buy a lot of aspirin for the headache to subside for Auston.

Now I don't believe Matthews will force an offersheet on the Leafs because I believe they will negotiate in good faith and not play hard ball, and pay him what he deserves and that is going to be north of $10 mil and likely closer to McDavid contract. He will end up after the ink dries as a top 5 NHL salaried player.

PS. Leafs begrudgingly matching is how the CBA works for players/agents forcing teams to pay market value or lose the player for draft pick compensation if they don't match. Its business !!!!

Like it not other contracts have moved the scale upwards as comparables.

Could he really handle the wrath from the fans? Remember, this fan base has some nutjobs that still haven’t forgiven Sundin for not getting us a 2nd round pick in return.

 

[Mess]

As it stands I don't think Rangers can offer $15M. It might be $12.5 that McD got. What is the max percentage of the cap they can offer ? Even so, you make a good argument.

CBA states 20% is the max limit any one player can make of the Cap ceiling (including bonuses). 20% of a $80 ceiling = $16 mil cap per person max.

 

[Mess]

Could he really handle the wrath from the fans? Remember, this fan base has some nutjobs that still haven’t forgiven Sundin for not getting us a 2nd round pick in return.

MLSE will match any offersheet so fans will not lose Matthews, and they will likely turn their wrath to Lou Lam and admin for attempting to play hardball with their superstar player and now it cost them more $$ Cap. MLSE have the financial wherewithal to pay Matthews what he is worth so why play hardball with your best player??

Hard to blame Matthews and his agent to do what the NHLPA wants to increase player salaries.

Not unlike both Eric Karlsson and Drew Doughty both stated this week that they are both going to get more than PK Subban and going to get fair market and even leave their current teams to pursue it.. Its their right and business.

 

[BayStreetBully]

MLSE will match any offersheet so fans will not lose Matthews, and they will likely turn their wrath to Lou Lam and admin for attempting to play hardball with their superstar player and now it cost them more $$ Cap. MLSE have the financial wherewithal to pay Matthews what he is worth so why play hardball with your best player??

Hard to blame Matthews and his agent to do what the NHLPA wants to increase player salaries.

Not unlike both Eric Karlsson and Drew Doughty both stated this week that they are both going to get more than PK Subban and going to get fair market and even leave their current teams to pursue it.. Its their right and business.

My last comment was a joke, poking at irrational Sundin haters.

In all seriousness, it’s a non-issue for me. If the Leafs management wanted, they could sign Matthews for $10 million. They can look at the league norm, and not the blunders of Edmonton and Buffalo. Edmonton and Buffalo’s signings are not market value. It’s becoming more evident by the day that Draisaitl and Eichel are overpaid, and McDavid is doing nothing to play like a $12.5 million player. You think Lou will say to Matthews, “well, paying you $12 million is not the best move for the team, but hey, your friends were overpaid so I guess we have to overpay too!”? There is paying fairly, and then there is paying by foolishly following others’ mistakes.

Lou had always managed to have an internal team cap even when the NHL didn’t require one. I’m not worried.

And yes, it is business. Which means the Leafs own Matthews’ rights, and can negotiate with him in the manner they deem is fair. Contrary to popular belief, Matthews does not hold the upper hand until he is a UFA. You and I both know he will not sign an offer sheet.

 

[Gary Nylund]

My last comment was a joke, poking at irrational Sundin haters.

In all seriousness, it’s a non-issue for me. If the Leafs management wanted, they could sign Matthews for $10 million. They can look at the league norm, and not the blunders of Edmonton and Buffalo. Edmonton and Buffalo’s signings are not market value. It’s becoming more evident by the day that Draisaitl and Eichel are overpaid, and McDavid is doing nothing to play like a $12.5 million player. You think Lou will say to Matthews, “well, paying you $12 million is not the best move for the team, but hey, your friends were overpaid so I guess we have to overpay too!”? There is paying fairly, and then there is paying by foolishly following others’ mistakes.

Lou had always managed to have an internal team cap even when the NHL didn’t require one. I’m not worried.

And yes, it is business. Which means the Leafs own Matthews’ rights, and can negotiate with him in the manner they deem is fair. Contrary to popular belief, Matthews does not hold the upper hand until he is a UFA. You and I both know he will not sign an offer sheet.

Even if it's from Arizona?

 

[BayStreetBully]

Even if it's from Arizona?

Even from Arizona. The Leafs are going to match anyway. He’s not going to risk losing that goodwill. The perception would be “punk kid who has done nothing, gets greedy”.

You see how rare it is for the good ol’ boy superstars to reach UFA still unsigned? It’s even more rare for good ol’ boy superstar *kids* to go against the grain and sign an offer sheet.

Now, when Matthews is a UFA, that’s a different story. He can sign for whatever he wants, and sign with whoever he wants. He’s earned that right by then.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Even from Arizona. The Leafs are going to match anyway. He’s not going to risk losing that goodwill. The perception would be “punk kid who has done nothing, gets greedy”.

You see how rare it is for the good ol’ boy superstars to reach UFA still unsigned? It’s even more rare for good ol’ boy superstar *kids* to go against the grain and sign an offer sheet.

Now, when Matthews is a UFA, that’s a different story. He can sign for whatever he wants, and sign with whoever he wants. He’s earned that right by then.

Have there been many cases where teams present players with offer sheets for huge amounts of money and the players won't sign them?

 

[BayStreetBully]

Have there been many cases where teams present players with offer sheets for huge amounts of money and the players won't sign them?

Beats me. If you’re asking whether Matthews will sign an offer sheet after being offered $15 million by Arizona, I still doubt it. Moreover, I doubt Arizona makes an offer sheet like that. Maybe Montreal or Ottawa out of bad faith, but once Toronto matches that, then Matthews really loses goodwill for collaborating with a near rival. But now we are getting into ridiculous hypotheticals.

 

[Mess]

Yes, it is business. Which means the Leafs own Matthews’ rights, and can negotiate with him in the manner they deem is fair. Contrary to popular belief, Matthews does not hold the upper hand until he is a UFA. You and I both know he will not sign an offer sheet.

I know he will not need to sign or listen to offer sheet because I trust Leaf management will not play hardball and deal with him fairly, which likely means between Eichel and McDavid, but closer to the top than the floor.

You seem to be suggesting Matthews is going to ignore the market and take less than he is worth, and ignore the CBA rules to get fair market, which then brings offersheet into the equation instead of as you say Matthews can sit out and lose money and playing time if he doesn't like Leafs offer.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I know he will not need to sign or listen to offer sheet because I trust Leaf management will not play hardball and deal with him fairly, which likely means between Eichel and McDavid, but closer to the top than the floor.

You seem to be suggesting Matthews is going to ignore the market and take less than he is worth, and ignore the CBA rules to get fair market, which then brings offersheet into the equation instead of as you say Matthews can sit out and lose money and playing time if he doesn't like Leafs offer.

$10 million is a fair deal. I don’t believe Matthews will take that as a sign of bad faith and sign an offer sheet in reply. I just don’t see it. If he felt he was being lowballed, sure. $10 million is not a lowball. Offer sheets for franchise players don’t work. The days of Fedorov and Sakic even trying to sign an offer sheet are gone with the wind.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Beats me. If you’re asking whether Matthews will sign an offer sheet after being offered $15 million by Arizona, I still doubt it. Moreover, I doubt Arizona makes an offer sheet like that. Maybe Montreal or Ottawa out of bad faith, but once Toronto matches that, then Matthews really loses goodwill for collaborating with a near rival. But now we are getting into ridiculous hypotheticals.

I'm just saying, you offer a young kid 100m, how confident can you possibly be that's he'll say no because of what fans might think of him? It's not a risk worth taking if you ask me.

How much goodwill do you think the Maple Leafs franchise loses if they dicker over dollars with their Matthews?

You're speculating on what the fans might think of Matthews if he signs an offer sheet, have you thought of how Matthews might feel about the Leafs if they nickel and dime him?

Here's how I see it. Matthews is the saviour, you pay the man his money. Whether you like it or not, the comparables are McDavid and Eichel so he slots in between those two, end of story.

And BTW, you can argue Eichel is overpaid if you like but McDavid won the Hart trophy (among others) in his 2nd season, arguing he's overpaid is an uphill battle.

 

[IPS]

I bet Mark Scheifele definitely wishes he'd asked for more money right about now. He's gotta be among the best bargains in the NHL.

He signed that contract after he impressed greatly at a short stint at #1C. Really goes to show how much NHL players value security.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I'm just saying, you offer a young kid 100m, how confident can you possibly be that's he'll say no because of what fans might think of him? It's not a risk worth taking if you ask me.

How much goodwill do you think the Maple Leafs franchise loses if they dicker over dollars with their Matthews?

You're speculating on what the fans might think of Matthews if he signs an offer sheet, have you thought of how Matthews might feel about the Leafs if they nickel and dime him?

Here's how I see it. Matthews is the saviour, you pay the man his money. Whether you like it or not, the comparables are McDavid and Eichel so he slots in between those two, end of story.

And BTW, you can argue Eichel is overpaid if you like but McDavid won the Hart trophy (among others) in his 2nd season, arguing he's overpaid is an uphill battle.

There’s actually a better chance a young kid takes $80 million the first chance he gets. A year before even becoming an RFA. Like you said, that’s a lot of dough for someone who can’t even drink in his own country.

Why would Matthews ever believe the Leafs are nickel and diming him at $10 million? If you believe Matthews needs $12.5 million (you quoted $100 million), then now Matthews is nickel and diming the Leafs. What, he had to hold out for just a little more? He couldn’t take a fair $10 million?

Eichel wasn’t paid $10 million to remain a 60 point player. He was paid that money with the expectation that he will be a consistent 90 point player. That’s what the Leafs would expect of Matthews. The fact that Matthews might be closer to getting there than Eichel does not mean we pay Matthews more.

Matthews sure is the savior. But this is the cap world. You don’t overpay just because he is our savior. That’s how Buffalo got into trouble with Eichel.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There’s actually a better chance a young kid takes $80 million the first chance he gets. A year before even becoming an RFA. Like you said, that’s a lot of dough for someone who can’t even drink in his own country.

Why would Matthews ever believe the Leafs are nickel and diming him at $10 million? If you believe Matthews needs $12.5 million (you quoted $100 million), then now Matthews is nickel and diming the Leafs. What, he had to hold out for just a little more? He couldn’t take a fair $10 million?

Eichel wasn’t paid $10 million to remain a 60 point player. He was paid that money with the expectation that he will be a consistent 90 point player. That’s what the Leafs would expect of Matthews. The fact that Matthews might be closer to getting there than Eichel does not mean we pay Matthews more.

Matthews sure is the savior. But this is the cap world. You don’t overpay just because he is our savior. That’s how Buffalo got into trouble with Eichel.

I said they shouldn't nickel and dime him, I didn't mention any amounts. The 100 million I mentioned was just a number I threw out there as speculation - what would an offer sheet be like? People were talking 15m per year so 7 years would be 105m. So no, I'm not saying we should pay Matthews 12.5m but if we offer 10 and his agent wants more, I think we'd be wise to pay 11 or 11.5 if that's what it takes and move on.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I said they shouldn't nickel and dime him, I didn't mention any amounts. The 100 million I mentioned was just a number I threw out there as speculation - what would an offer sheet be like? People were talking 15m per year so 7 years would be 105m. So no, I'm not saying we should pay Matthews 12.5m but if we offer 10 and his agent wants more, I think we'd be wise to pay 11 or 11.5 if that's what it takes and move on.

Ok, $11 million is more reasonable than $12.5 million, but even then, why is Matthews holding out for that extra million instead of just signing for $10 million? Surely, he understands that the Leafs are not trying to save $1 million just to be assholes. They are trying to conserve cap space. If this was 15 years ago, I’d be all for paying Matthews $20 million. What would I care if money stays with MLSE or with Matthews. But in a cap world, Matthews will have to understand it’s not just about him. And I think he’s smart enough to understand that.

And once he signs with us, then he can go after all the endorsements he wants, which puts money in his pocket but doesn’t take it out from the team’s.

 

[hotpaws]

Matthews sure is the savior. But this is the cap world. You don’t overpay just because he is our savior. That’s how Buffalo got into trouble with Eichel.

sometimes you don't have a choice

i'm sure both Buff and Edm would have loved to sign there guys for a few mil less per year but the player has to also agree and you don't want to run the risk of any bad blood between you and your franchise player

 

[Mess]

There’s actually a better chance a young kid takes $80 million the first chance he gets. A year before even becoming an RFA. Like you said, that’s a lot of dough for someone who can’t even drink in his own country.

Why would Matthews ever believe the Leafs are nickel and diming him at $10 million? If you believe Matthews needs $12.5 million (you quoted $100 million), then now Matthews is nickel and diming the Leafs. What, he had to hold out for just a little more? He couldn’t take a fair $10 million?

Eichel wasn’t paid $10 million to remain a 60 point player. He was paid that money with the expectation that he will be a consistent 90 point player. That’s what the Leafs would expect of Matthews. The fact that Matthews might be closer to getting there than Eichel does not mean we pay Matthews more.

Matthews sure is the savior. But this is the cap world. You don’t overpay just because he is our savior. That’s how Buffalo got into trouble with Eichel.

I think you're going to be disappointed when Matthews isn't signed for $10 mil per X 8. IMO

That seems more like what you want to happen and not really what will happen.

While all Leaf fans would love him locked up for a cheap as possible for as long as possible because that serves their own interest bests believing it makes the Leafs more Cup competitive, that doesn't take into account the market, comparables, the Cap ceiling and standard negotiating process of stars get a % of the Cap ceiling.

Players don't ask for a specific flat amount #, as their agents generally negotiate the amount based on a % of the overall team Salary Cap.

McDavid's agent negotiated a C.H.%

: 16.67 (Cap hit percentage of Cap ceiling) & $12.5 mil AAV . If you follow this pattern and say Matthews C.H% = 15% then with a $80 mil cap ceiling = $12 mil per.

If you look at other Pat Brisson clients Crosby (C.H.%

: 14.50) in 2012, Toews (C.H.%

: 15.22), Kane (C.H.%

: 15.22) in 2014 you can see how he operates and Lou Lam will not be going up against an unknown here but rather an agent who represents the best in the game on his client list.

 

[BayStreetBully]

sometimes you don't have a choice

i'm sure both Buff and Edm would have loved to sign there guys for a few mil less per year but the player has to also agree and you don't want to run the risk of any bad blood between you and your franchise player

It’s business. I know we haven’t had a player of his caliber in, oh, 50 years, which makes people think the only answer is to bend over backwards, but I’m confident Matthews can be an adult about the business side of things.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ok, $11 million is more reasonable than $12.5 million, but even then, why is Matthews holding out for that extra million instead of just signing for $10 million? Surely, he understands that the Leafs are not trying to save $1 million just to be *******s. They are trying to conserve cap space. If this was 15 years ago, I’d be all for paying Matthews $20 million. What would I care if money stays with MLSE or with Matthews. But in a cap world, Matthews will have to understand it’s not just about him. And I think he’s smart enough to understand that.

And once he signs with us, then he can go after all the endorsements he wants, which puts money in his pocket but doesn’t take it out from the team’s.

The other side of that is why are we insisting on 10 million instead of giving him the 11 million? 1 million probably isn't going to the difference between us winning or not winning a cup. He has an agent, if he's smart he listens to what he says, not just to what Lou tells him.

Marleau took every penny he could get from us. Why would we expect Matthews to take below market value? Remember that he is on pace to be the best player in franchise history. 11-11.5m is a fair price, if what he asks for is fair, you just pay the man his money, even if it isn't a bargain discount price. You just pay him and be glad he isn't asking for 12.5m.