Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Czech goalie Pavel Francouz (1 year)

[MarkT]

We don't need to know for a fact that Francouz was promised a job as the #2 to be confident that's the case. It's simple logic, you don't need an inside source with the team to figure it out.

I laid out a few posts ago a logical argument that leads me to believe he *wasn't* promised the #2 job.

 

[McMetal]

I laid out a few posts ago a logical argument that leads me to believe he *wasn't* promised the #2 job.

Okay, well if you want to play that game, here's why that argument is speculative at best and relies on some serious "what ifs".

We don't know if he was offered a #2 job elsewhere: We never know that, teams who lose bidding wars don't tend to broadcast it. But he's not a dime a dozen goalie and sources say there was a lot of NHL interest. If you're waiting for a list of teams in on him and exactly what their offers were, it will never come.

NHL and AHL teams close together: This by itself is a decent argument, but you could easily flip it to mean that he may spend a little time in the AHL to get warmed up and plans to spend the bulk of the year with the NHL team. That alone doesn't prove anything.

KHL offers will still be there: Yes, but hockey players have finite careers, and it's a big risk to take a huge pay cut for one of your prime years unless you have a good idea that it will pay off in a higher paycheck down the line.

Balance those points against the points made by the rest of us and there is a heavy, heavy tilt towards him being the de facto #2 for next year.

 

[cgf]

It's worth reminding folks that Frank isn't russian. So the KHL isn't home for him and he doesn't have that Russian-hero factor which would ensure that he'll have huge offers from SKA or ZSKA waiting for him even if he does get stuck in the AHL for a year or two.

I do think that the 'NHL & AHL teams are close together' bit makes it seem like he's open to spending some time in the AHL...but I don't think that time is unlimited, so if he doesn't feel like that NHL gig is coming, he'll bail.

Which is part of why I'm expecting the team to get a quality #3 that they could live with as the back up for a month or two, but who they expect Frank to beat out relatively quickly. Someone like what the Hamburglar ended up being for us, or what Pickard would be if Toronto doesn't qualify him & we bring him back.

 

[MarkT]

Okay, well if you want to play that game, here's why that argument is speculative at best and relies on some serious "what ifs".

We don't know if he was offered a #2 job elsewhere: We never know that, teams who lose bidding wars don't tend to broadcast it. But he's not a dime a dozen goalie and sources say there was a lot of NHL interest. If you're waiting for a list of teams in on him and exactly what their offers were, it will never come.

NHL and AHL teams close together: This by itself is a decent argument, but you could easily flip it to mean that he may spend a little time in the AHL to get warmed up and plans to spend the bulk of the year with the NHL team. That alone doesn't prove anything.

KHL offers will still be there: Yes, but hockey players have finite careers, and it's a big risk to take a huge pay cut for one of your prime years unless you have a good idea that it will pay off in a higher paycheck down the line.

Balance those points against the points made by the rest of us and there is a heavy, heavy tilt towards him being the de facto #2 for next year.

This is why I respect you McMetal. You're actually willing to argue against things I've really said and make your own logical statements in response. I think your points are completely fair, but I think it goes either way depending on your assumptions and biases. I think the point has been proven though that we don't know with anything close to certainty that he's been offered the backup position here. That's really all I want - for people here to stop assuming that he's definitely 100% going to be the backup.

 

[McMetal]

This is why I respect you McMetal. You're actually willing to argue against things I've really said and make your own logical statements in response. I think your points are completely fair, but I think it goes either way depending on your assumptions and biases. I think the point has been proven though that we don't know with anything close to certainty that he's been offered the backup position here. That's really all I want - for people here to stop assuming that he's definitely 100% going to be the backup.

Fine, maybe not 100%, but it's no less than 95%. We'll just go ahead and keep talking about it like he's the #2 though, because you're the only one who seems to be in doubt about it.

 

[MarkT]

Fine, maybe not 100%, but it's no less than 95%. We'll just go ahead and keep talking about it like he's the #2 though, because you're the only one who seems to be in doubt about it.

fair enough. Do I get to say "I told you so" when we re-sign Bernier or get some other more obvious #2?

 

[cgf]

fair enough. Do I get to say "I told you so" when we re-sign Bernier or get some other more obvious #2?

Yep yep yep. Gloating is the commonly recognized reward for vocally taking a minority position that comes to bare. It’s appreciated, but not required that you be as magnanimous as Sea Eagles was

 

[McMetal]

fair enough. Do I get to say "I told you so" when we re-sign Bernier or get some other more obvious #2?

 

[CobraAcesS]

fair enough. Do I get to say "I told you so" when we re-sign Bernier or get some other more obvious #2?

Well there is a down side to that too lol

 

[the_fan]

Francouz very well knows that he will get plenty of opportunity to play with the Avs once Varly plays about 20 games and gets injured. If they're bringing back Bernier as well, it's not like he can stay healthy himself. Francouz may very well be the starting goalie for the Avs sometime half way into the season.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think there's any way they guaranteed Francouz the #2 job. It may be his to lose, but he's never played in the NHL before, and Varly has injury concerns. There's no way Sakic would feel comfortable with that situation going into the season.

Even if Varly is healthy, there's still roughly 20 games worth of points on the line for the backup. They're still a middle of the pack type of team, they can't afford to risk losing that many points with poor goaltending.

They'll most likely bring in another NHL capable backup, and let him and Francouz battle it out in camp. With the AHL team so close in Loveland now, they can shuttle them back and forth if they want during the season if they're close, or if one struggles.

 

[Bonzai12]

I can’t think of any time where a guy was guaranteed a specific spot on an Avs depth chart.

Maybe a player got a NHL or two way deal, but there’s still an expectation that he will compete.

If that’s how we’re doing business nowadays though - guaranteeing depth chart slots - yikes.

 

[McMetal]

It's not about whether Sakic said "you're the #2 goalie, period" to him. He almost certainly didn't say that exact thing. But, given the number of teams who were likely to be in on Francouz, it's safe to say that Sakic also didn't say "we're going to go out and sign somebody else to push you down to the AHL". If he had said that, we wouldn't have gotten him to sign a contract at all.

It's not unreasonable to guess that the #2 spot is his to lose and at best they'll go looking for a strong #3 in free agency to hedge their bets.

 

[Pokecheque]

It's not about whether Sakic said "you're the #2 goalie, period" to him. He almost certainly didn't say that exact thing. But, given the number of teams who were likely to be in on Francouz, it's safe to say that Sakic also didn't say "we're going to go out and sign somebody else to push you down to the AHL". If he had said that, we wouldn't have gotten him to sign a contract at all.

It's not unreasonable to guess that the #2 spot is his to lose and at best they'll go looking for a strong #3 in free agency to hedge their bets.

That presents an interesting dilemma. A guy who is more or less a career AHL netminder but with enough upside to be a decent NHL backup.

Glancing at the goalie FA class the best bet would be...Sateri? I'm guessing he gets a better deal elsewhere though. After that there's Hutchinson, but he might be even more concussion-prone than three Berniers put together. Beyond that, the only names IMO that should be of any interest are Tokarski and Zatkoff. Most of those other names I think will find backup or even staring roles in other markets, or they're simply too old/not good enough to pursue.

My prediction since I'm so good at prognostication: The Avs re-sign the Hamburglar.

 

[MarkT]

That presents an interesting dilemma. A guy who is more or less a career AHL netminder but with enough upside to be a decent NHL backup.

Glancing at the goalie FA class the best bet would be...Sateri? I'm guessing he gets a better deal elsewhere though. After that there's Hutchinson, but he might be even more concussion-prone than three Berniers put together. Beyond that, the only names IMO that should be of any interest are Tokarski and Zatkoff. Most of those other names I think will find backup or even staring roles in other markets, or they're simply too old/not good enough to pursue.

My prediction since I'm so good at prognostication: The Avs re-sign the Hamburglar.

Okay, given these options, why wouldn't the Avs do what it takes to re-sign Bernier so they have three solid options rather that Varly, one "hopefully good yet unknown", and one "proven to be not very good most of the time"?

 

[cgf]

That presents an interesting dilemma. A guy who is more or less a career AHL netminder but with enough upside to be a decent NHL backup.

Glancing at the goalie FA class the best bet would be...Sateri? I'm guessing he gets a better deal elsewhere though. After that there's Hutchinson, but he might be even more concussion-prone than three Berniers put together. Beyond that, the only names IMO that should be of any interest are Tokarski and Zatkoff. Most of those other names I think will find backup or even staring roles in other markets, or they're simply too old/not good enough to pursue.

My prediction since I'm so good at prognostication: The Avs re-sign the Hamburglar.

Pickard

 

[MarkT]

Pickard

I was listening to a Leafs podcast, and they seem to think they're going to re-sign both Pickard and Sparks and try to move McElhinney or bury him in the minors. Speaking of which, if Francouz is indeed the #2 guy, McElhinney might be an ideal short-term #3.

 

[tucker3434]

That presents an interesting dilemma. A guy who is more or less a career AHL netminder but with enough upside to be a decent NHL backup.

Glancing at the goalie FA class the best bet would be...Sateri? I'm guessing he gets a better deal elsewhere though. After that there's Hutchinson, but he might be even more concussion-prone than three Berniers put together. Beyond that, the only names IMO that should be of any interest are Tokarski and Zatkoff. Most of those other names I think will find backup or even staring roles in other markets, or they're simply too old/not good enough to pursue.

My prediction since I'm so good at prognostication: The Avs re-sign the Hamburglar.

The hamburgler seems like the obvious move. It’d be nice if we had a prospect there we were concerned about blocking, but that isn’t the case...

 

[MarkT]

I've been thinking about this signing some more and here's what I think the deal is:

The Avs want to re-sign Bernier, but he's basically the 2nd best free agent goalie available after Carter Hutton, and there might be a team out there willing to give him a shot as their starter or at least to compete for that job. So I think Francouz represents the backup (pun) plan for if Bernier signs elsewhere. But I still think Bernier returning is their plan A - and I think that's what everyone should want because it keeps us from having to make a move or sign someone worse to be our #3. After this year we'll know what we have in Francouz, then we can make a more intelligent decision about our NHL goaltending plans long term.

 

[McMetal]

I think the signing of Francouz makes it crystal clear that Bernier has announced his intention to move on.

McElhinny is a good possibility for the #3 if Toronto intends to keep Picks. I doubt it will be Hammond though. They clearly did not trust him last year and only played him as a last resort.

 

[cgf]

I think the signing of Francouz makes it crystal clear that Bernier has announced his intention to move on.

McElhinny is a good possibility for the #3 if Toronto intends to keep Picks. I doubt it will be Hammond though. They clearly did not trust him last year and only played him as a last resort.

Yeah, the Hamburglar may have come up big for us in game 5, but that doesn't erase the months beforehand where the team did everything they could to avoid playing him.

I'd prefer Picks just cause of his personality & history with this organization, but whichever younger goalie ends up on the outside looking in in Toronto would be fine by me to be our #3 who can push Frank for the back up job and maybe even hold him off from claiming it immediately if he needs a little time to re-adjust to the angles on smaller ice.

 

[Pokecheque]

I think the signing of Francouz makes it crystal clear that Bernier has announced his intention to move on.

McElhinny is a good possibility for the #3 if Toronto intends to keep Picks. I doubt it will be Hammond though. They clearly did not trust him last year and only played him as a last resort.

McElhinney is signed through next season, if he's to be gotten it'll have to be through trade. It's a distinct possibility they do so since I'm guessing they want to see what they have in Sparks.

Huh...did not realize Picks is actually older than Sparks. And Picks is RFA, I think he'd be fairly easy to re-acquire if they chose to do so.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think the signing of Francouz makes it crystal clear that Bernier has announced his intention to move on.

McElhinny is a good possibility for the #3 if Toronto intends to keep Picks. I doubt it will be Hammond though. They clearly did not trust him last year and only played him as a last resort.

Yeah, kind of funny that people still expect Bernier back. He's gone, absolutely.

 

[cgf]

It's a shame both Gillies & Parsons are still waiver exempt so the Flames can just give Rittich the backup job to start the year & not do anything with their goalies until next summer. Being able to snag one of their goalies on the cheap to battle Frank, coulda been a savvy play for Sakic.

Ultimately I don't see us doing much more than getting Frank & a Pickard-level guy to battle him this year, and I'm ok with that...but I'm hoping we can get one of the top tier goalie prospects with the Nashville 2nd, even if Skarek doesn't fall for us, and that next summer Joe is aggressive about signing Cale Morris and exploring trades for younger goalies that have starter potential.

 

[McMetal]

McElhinney is signed through next season, if he's to be gotten it'll have to be through trade. It's a distinct possibility they do so since I'm guessing they want to see what they have in Sparks.

Huh...did not realize Picks is actually older than Sparks. And Picks is RFA, I think he'd be fairly easy to re-acquire if they chose to do so.

I imagine McElhinny would be dirt cheap in a trade. They'll be trying to get rid of him instead of putting him on waivers, and everyone will know it.