Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Czech goalie Pavel Francouz (1 year)

cgf

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Why do the #s of other KHL goalies matter when he led the league with a weaker team in front of him than pretty much anyone else in the top 10 either of the past two seasons?
 

MarkT

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Why do the #s of other KHL goalies matter when he led the league with a weaker team in front of him than pretty much anyone else in the top 10 either of the past two seasons?

Because if the league as a whole has goalies with a high save percentage, it may mean that Francouz is simple the best of a group of mediocre goalies who happen to play in a league where fewer shots turn into goals.
 

cgf

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Because if the league as a whole has goalies with a high save percentage, it may mean that Francouz is simple the best of a group of mediocre goalies who happen to play in a league where fewer shots turn into goals.

Wouldn't that be just as possible if he led the league with a 86%? Granted I'd disagree with the bolded notion in general, and would point to the success KHL kids have had in NA, but I guess I just don't see the connection.
 

MarkT

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Wouldn't that be just as possible if he led the league with a 86%? Granted I'd disagree with the bolded notion in general, and would point to the success KHL kids have had in NA, but I guess I just don't see the connection.

I'm not saying he's guaranteed to be terrible, but the KHL is clearly quite different from the NHL, which means that I will always take KHL stats with a grain of salt when looking at players coming from there to here.
 

Ivan13

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Francouz played on a decent team, but not on the likes of SKA, CSKA or Ak Bars, on average he faced 30 shots on goal per game - while guys like Koskinen, Shestryokin, Larsson, etc faced between 18 to 25 shots per game - , was the biggest reason the team finished in the playoffs as they had the lowest total of goals for out of any team in the East, and the 2nd lowest out of all playoff teams finishing 9th worst in the entire KHL in terms of goals per game, he is .7 higher than his closest competitor in save percentage with 94.6%, while his teammate had 1.5% lower save percentage. He is really good, and one of the most impressive goalies I have seen in the KHL.
 

MarkT

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Francouz played on a decent team, but not on the likes of SKA, CSKA or Ak Bars, on average he faced 30 shots on goal per game - while guys like Koskinen, Shestryokin, Larsson, etc faced between 18 to 25 shots per game - , was the biggest reason the team finished in the playoffs as they had the lowest total of goals for out of any team in the East, and the 2nd lowest out of all playoff teams finishing 9th worst in the entire KHL in terms of goals per game, he is .7 higher than his closest competitor in save percentage with 94.6%, while his teammate had 1.5% lower save percentage. He is really good, and one of the most impressive goalies I have seen in the KHL.

I sincerely hope you're right. I also sincerely hope I'm right and the plan is for him to start off as the Eagles' starter.
 

cgf

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I'm not saying he's guaranteed to be terrible, but the KHL is clearly quite different from the NHL, which means that I will always take KHL stats with a grain of salt when looking at players coming from there to here.

It’s important to look at context for KHL stats because of the concentration of talent and to assess the players skillsets for yourself. But leading the league in sv% for two straight years, without playing for one of the powerhouses is impressive even when put into context.

I don’t know how to assess goalies so I can’t say I have the same confidence that I had in Radulov & Panarin...I got laughed off HFhawks for telling them that they got better by replacing Saad with Panarin when he first came over. But the achievement is impressive & Gigantor, who does know how to assess goalies, seemed intrigued by this dude’s skills
 
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BKarchitect

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It’s reasonable to have some skepticism but the fact that a seeming majority of KHL fans view him as either the best goalie in the league or, if not, then close to and the fact that most Czech fans view him as their nations undisputed top goalie (granted not the strongest group with the likes of Mrzak and Rittich) should soothe some fears. He could fall anywhere from third string goalie to 1B goalie this upcoming season - heck he might even hit that whole spectrum in his first season in North America. But I’d be surprised if he’s not at least an able Bernier replacement by the midway point. I do see the benefit of a strong #3 though in case there are issues settling or what not.

The other thing to consider is if you ask Rangers or Isles fans, they’ll tell you Shetyorkin and Sorokin are ready to step into the NHL and be studs and are merely being held back by contractual obligations - well there’s no question Frankie is the better, more accomplished netminder at this point. And while of course, he doesn’t have their seemingly franchise goalie upside - that’s the other rub here - we are getting a guy who is still pretty young in goalie years.

Cheap, talented, proven at the highest levels outside the NHL (for league and nation), appears to have a great attitude and perhaps even has some additional upside - hard for some of us not be bullish on a very shrewd move by Sakic here.
 
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MarkT

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It’s reasonable to have some skepticism but the fact that a seeming majority of KHL fans view him as either the best goalie in the league or, if not, then close to and the fact that most Czech fans view him as their nations undisputed top goalie (granted not the strongest group with the likes of Mrzak and Rittich) should soothe some fears. He could fall anywhere from third string goalie to 1B goalie this upcoming season - heck he might even hit that whole spectrum in his first season in North America. But I’d be surprised if he’s not at least an able Bernier replacement by the midway point. I do see the benefit of a strong #3 though in case there are issues settling or what not.

The other thing to consider is if you ask Rangers or Isles fans, they’ll tell you Shetyorkin and Sorokin are ready to step into the NHL and be studs and are merely being held back by contractual obligations - well there’s no question Frankie is the better, more accomplished netminder at this point. And while of course, he doesn’t have their seemingly franchise goalie upside - that’s the other rub here - we are getting a guy who is still pretty young in goalie years.

Cheap, talented, proven at the highest levels outside the NHL (for league and nation), appears to have a great attitude and perhaps even has some additional upside - hard for some of us not be bullish on a very shrewd move by Sakic here.

Now this I can get behind. I'm really curious about what he's going to be in the NHL, and I think it's a marvelous move by Sakic to bring him in. I just happen to think all the "who should be our 3rd string goalie?" discussion in this and other threads is silly because I think Francouz is it.
 

S E P H

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Tomas Vokoun was the complete epitome of "making the insane save yet letting in the softies" goaler this league has ever seen.
 

PAZ

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Now this I can get behind. I'm really curious about what he's going to be in the NHL, and I think it's a marvelous move by Sakic to bring him in. I just happen to think all the "who should be our 3rd string goalie?" discussion in this and other threads is silly because I think Francouz is it.

Francouz isn't going to be 3rd in our goalie depth, if Sakic told him that he would've signed with another team or stayed in the KHL. He's going to get every opportunity to stay in the back-up role with a relatively long leash. It's rare to be able to sign a goalie that has potential to be the starter of a NHL team, I imagine Varly being injury prone is one of the reasons why he signed with us.

Yes, it is a gamble but i'd rather swing for the fences with the hope he'll become our next starter, rather than going the safer route signing a decent backup like Bernier that has no potential to take over the starter role. While this year was an amazing run, at the end of the day it was a developmental year.

I appreciate the approach Sakic is taking by taking calculated risks to try and fill in the holes of this team, rather than simply staying the status quo.
 

McMetal

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I'm still not 100% sold that Frank is going to work out as a #2 next year, I think we really need a plan B around. I wouldn't mind that being Pickard, he's well liked with the org and has NHL experience, but I don't feel good about just saying "This is our backup next year" and closing the book on it.
 

cgf

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I'm still not 100% sold that Frank is going to work out as a #2 next year, I think we really need a plan B around. I wouldn't mind that being Pickard, he's well liked with the org and has NHL experience, but I don't feel good about just saying "This is our backup next year" and closing the book on it.

I get that, which is why I’m rooting for Pickard to come back to be that #3 that we aren’t horrified of having to fill in as the back up or for everything to click for Martin so his mental game suddenly catches up to his physical gifts...but I don’t expect Joe to bring in a legit #2 that he wouldn’t be confident in Frank to beat out for the job, a la Bernier.
 

MarkT

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Francouz isn't going to be 3rd in our goalie depth, if Sakic told him that he would've signed with another team or stayed in the KHL. He's going to get every opportunity to stay in the back-up role with a relatively long leash. It's rare to be able to sign a goalie that has potential to be the starter of a NHL team, I imagine Varly being injury prone is one of the reasons why he signed with us.

Yes, it is a gamble but i'd rather swing for the fences with the hope he'll become our next starter, rather than going the safer route signing a decent backup like Bernier that has no potential to take over the starter role. While this year was an amazing run, at the end of the day it was a developmental year.

I appreciate the approach Sakic is taking by taking calculated risks to try and fill in the holes of this team, rather than simply staying the status quo.

What is your source for the bold part? Are you friends with Francouz or something? Do you have a source from within Avs management? I ask because it seems like you're stating your opinions as fact based on zero real evidence.

As far as I know, we have no clue what Avs management told him or what his expectations are. The clue I'm going on though is that he appears to have specifically mentioned the proximity of the AHL and NHL teams as a reason for his signing - that to me suggests he expects to play in both leagues, which isn't something a guy expecting to the be full time backup would expect. And Varly being injury prone works just as well as reasoning for him willing to be the 3rd stringer, and it works even better if you assume Bernier is the backup because he may be injury prone as well.
 

PAZ

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What is your source for the bold part? Are you friends with Francouz or something? Do you have a source from within Avs management? I ask because it seems like you're stating your opinions as fact based on zero real evidence.

As far as I know, we have no clue what Avs management told him or what his expectations are. The clue I'm going on though is that he appears to have specifically mentioned the proximity of the AHL and NHL teams as a reason for his signing - that to me suggests he expects to play in both leagues, which isn't something a guy expecting to the be full time backup would expect. And Varly being injury prone works just as well as reasoning for him willing to be the 3rd stringer, and it works even better if you assume Bernier is the backup because he may be injury prone as well.

How am I stating my opinions as facts, when I even had 'ifs' in my statement as well as explaining why I believe so.

Facts:
- Francouz has been the best goalie in the KHL for multiple years.
- Francouz turned down a significant offer from St. Petersburg
- Francouz mentioned the farm team being close together
- Experienced Russian players have a history of bolting back to the KHL if they have a hard time transitioning or feel like they're treated unfairly.

We don't know for sure what Sakic told him, but I very much doubt it was something along the lines of "We aren't sold on you being our #2, but we would love for you to come in and be our #3". There are teams like Carolina and Buffalo who would've killed to take a flyer on Francouz and given him a better opportunity than the #3 spot.

I do believe he's open to playing some games in the AHL to get acclimatized to the smaller ice, but I can't see him being content playing in the AHL the majority of the year. Maybe Francouz is a patient guy, but he's giving up millions of dollars to chase his dream. If he doesn't see results sooner than later, he'll be back in the KHL.
 

MarkT

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How am I stating my opinions as facts, when I even had 'ifs' in my statement as well as explaining why I believe so.

I don't want to get into a huge meta-argument, but I'll quote you with the relevant words bolded:

"Francouz isn't going to be 3rd in our goalie depth, if Sakic told him that he would've signed with another team or stayed in the KHL. He's going to get every opportunity to stay in the back-up role with a relatively long leash"

The way to turn those statements of fact into statements of opinion would be to start those sentences with something like "I think" or "in my opinion" or "it stands to reason that".

If you disagree with that, then there's probably no point in discussing it further because I don't know how I could explain it any more clearly or simply.

Facts:
- Francouz has been the best goalie in the KHL for multiple years.
- Francouz turned down a significant offer from St. Petersburg
- Francouz mentioned the farm team being close together
- Experienced Russian players have a history of bolting back to the KHL if they have a hard time transitioning or feel like they're treated unfairly.

We don't know for sure what Sakic told him, but I very much doubt it was something along the lines of "We aren't sold on you being our #2, but we would love for you to come in and be our #3". There are teams like Carolina and Buffalo who would've killed to take a flyer on Francouz and given him a better opportunity than the #3 spot.

I do believe he's open to playing some games in the AHL to get acclimatized to the smaller ice, but I can't see him being content playing in the AHL the majority of the year. Maybe Francouz is a patient guy, but he's giving up millions of dollars to chase his dream. If he doesn't see results sooner than later, he'll be back in the KHL.

Okay, now you're stating opinion - thanks for that. Here's why I disagree with your opinion: I agree that teams like Carolina or Buffalo might have offered him a straight up backup/1b job, but I think there are plenty of reasons Francouz might prefer a 3rd goalie job with us to a 2nd goalie job with a terrible franchise like Carolina or Buffalo.

And I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph. It's my suspicion that the agreement is that barring injury to Varlamov/Bernier/Bernier's replacement, he starts the year in the AHL. Then when Varly/Bernier inevitably gets hurt, he gets a shot with the NHL club. Then, based on how he plays in the AHL/NHL in the first season, he either gets a full time position with the NHL team, or he goes back to the KHL and makes his millions of dollars. But I honestly believe that he has been told he's going to be in the AHL all season if Varly/Bernier/new backup are both healthy.

And going through your facts, I think that my opinion is more likely than yours. Here's why:

- Francouz has been the best goalie in the KHL for multiple years. Yes, but he hasn't proven anything yet in the NHL and no team better than the Avs (that we know of) has offered him a guaranteed spot on the NHL roster.
- Francouz turned down a significant offer from St. Petersburg. Yes, but that offer could still easily be there waiting for him if things don't work out this year with the Avs.
- Francouz mentioned the farm team being close together. Pretty strong evidence he hasn't been offered the backup job at the NHL level.
- Experienced Russian players have a history of bolting back to the KHL if they have a hard time transitioning or feel like they're treated unfairly. I fully expect that to happen if he doesn't earn a full time NHL job for the 2019-20 season.
 

maxim84

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Eh... I'm not so sure you can say Francouz is the best goalie in the last years. I'd take Koskinenn or Sorokin over him any day of the week, especially since they play in tougher western conference, hell even grandpa Yeryomenko from Dinamo Moscow had similar stats through 2015-2016-2017 seasons . Don't forget KHL teams have very long trips 5-6 away games in a row and some of these matchups are played with half strenght deliberately to rest players for more important games. Just stats watching can take you to Danny Taylor who was with Ottawa AHL team this year and season before he had 1.75 goals in 29 games on a Sibir team (that was good until cca. 2015)

SKA offoer to him doesn't mean much simply because they have the biggest budget in the league and their "plan" is to buy everything and everyone they can in the offseason and then put the roster together in the preseason games and first few fixtures. There are so many excellent players who keep the bench warm just because SKA bought them to weaken other teams. And they are all expendable if by any chance a superstar becomes available (a la Datsyuk or Voynov)
 
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Ivan13

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Sorokin plays on CSKA and has faced 22 shots per game on average, he was not better than Francouz. Koskinen plays on SKA and faces 24 shots per game and no he was not better than Francouz.
 

McMetal

Writer of Wrongs
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We don't need to know for a fact that Francouz was promised a job as the #2 to be confident that's the case. It's simple logic, you don't need an inside source with the team to figure it out.
 

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