Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[S E P H]

Unless the bottom falls out, Makar is a much better prospect than whoever the Avs will select in the 8-16 range next year...

It depends on the prospect, the top 6-7 defenders in this year's draft besides Dahlin might not have the amount of potential Makar has, but they have an infinite amount of less risk associated with them.

 

[Pokecheque]

Boy I get that if not for wild speculation and what-ifs there'd be little to discuss on these forums but I have to say it's getting a bit ridiculous that we're debating for pages the merits of an OEL trade based on one proposal put out there by a new poster that has little to no basis in fact whatsoever. I'll say it again--Arizona did not make two big "win now" trades only to kick the can down the road yet again.

Far as speculation goes though, Comeau to Edmonton actually makes sense. Their bottom six is indeed atrocious and they need a good PK forward like yesterday...not to mention scoring depth of any kind.

 

[agentblack]

Crazy to think that a team like Jersey is way more fun to watch than EDM

 

[Avs44]

Still don't get why the Oilers are playing Draisaitl on McDavid's wing. I get they make a great combo, but McDavid is the type who can produce with almost anyone. Time for Draisaitl to put on his big boy pants and become a 70 point, two way centre who can drive his own line. That's the first problem I see with the Oilers. RNH is playing really good hockey as the #2 centre there, but they should have three high end scoring lines, sort of how the Pens did for so many years (with Staal, and with Bonino in the playoffs in particular) - that's how their bottom six should be fixed.

 

[dahrougem2]

Still don't get why the Oilers are playing Draisaitl on McDavid's wing. I get they make a great combo, but McDavid is the type who can produce with almost anyone. Time for Draisaitl to put on his big boy pants and become a 70 point, two way centre who can drive his own line. That's the first problem I see with the Oilers. RNH is playing really good hockey as the #2 centre there, but they should have three high end scoring lines, sort of how the Pens did for so many years (with Staal, and with Bonino in the playoffs in particular) - that's how their bottom six should be fixed.

Draisaitl can drive his own line, but he's so, so much more effective with McDavid. However, the same is true of McDavid in that he is so, so much more effective when Draisaitl is on his wing. They're literally the only threat the Oilers have aside from the occasional RNH contribution. I don't think splitting them up right now is a good idea. They just don't have the winger depth to do so. They're already struggling to find players to play for them on the wings. I mean, it's been a revolving door of RW's on that 2nd line with RNH and Lucic, I think they're better off leaving this as-is and rolling with the loaded lineup.

The problem is that the bottom-6 is just so, so bad. RNH moving down to the 3rd line isn't going to fix that because he'll be rendered useless having to play with those players. Kassian has been bad this year after his great playoffs; Letestu has been awful; Khaira, Malone, and Pakarinen are not NHL caliber players; Slepyshev is so inconsistent; Jokinen looks like he needs to retire; and Strome has been a major disappointment.

The bottom-6 in Edmonton needs to be completely revamped, but it isn't going to happen all in one season.

 

[BKarchitect]

Strome isn't really a major disappointment because I don't understand how anybody (except the Oilers apparently) would have expected much out of him after his recent seasons on the Island. I understand Eberle's days were numbered in Edmonton and that he plays a perimeter game but he's still an effective NHL scorer. Strome is just a bag of disappointment at this stage. Didn't really understand the appeal of that swap for Edmonton - Strome is like a much worse Eberle.

Looks like Pulju is getting a real shot to stick right now though and if he comes through, things will start looking a lot better. Scored in his first game on Saturday.

 

[Balthazar]

Strome is just a bag of disappointment at this stage. Didn't really understand the appeal of that swap for Edmonton - Strome is like a much worse Eberle.

Eberle was a cap dump. He was making 6M a year. The trade for Strome wasn't a hockey trade from the Oilers' POV.

 

[dahrougem2]

Strome isn't really a major disappointment because I don't understand how anybody (except the Oilers apparently) would have expected much out of him after his recent seasons on the Island. I understand Eberle's days were numbered in Edmonton and that he plays a perimeter game but he's still an effective NHL scorer. Strome is just a bag of disappointment at this stage. Didn't really understand the appeal of that swap for Edmonton - Strome is like a much worse Eberle.

Looks like Pulju is getting a real shot to stick right now though and if he comes through, things will start looking a lot better. Scored in his first game on Saturday.

Oilers took a chance on him replicating his 14-15 season when he had 50 points in 81 games; clearly, that isn't going to happen.

Another part of that trade had to do with salary implications. Moving out Eberle's 6M salary to bring in Strome's 2.5M salary was shrewd in hindsight until Chiarelli went and spent that money on Kris Russell for the next 4 years.

 

[BKarchitect]

Forgot Ebs was making that much. Glad we didn’t offload Barrie for him.

 

[Avs_19]

Forgot Ebs was making that much. Glad we didn’t offload Barrie for him.

That was never going to happen, it was just a pipe dream for Oilers fans. Eberle was almost like a cap dump with how it played out.

 

[Pokecheque]

Eberle was a cap dump. He was making 6M a year. The trade for Strome wasn't a hockey trade from the Oilers' POV.

They still wanted something out of Strome--it wasn't like they expected him to play like a cap dump return. He doesn't even look like an NHL player right now. That's twice now that Chiarelli's been Snow-jobbed.

 

[Eltuna]

Boy I get that if not for wild speculation and what-ifs there'd be little to discuss on these forums but I have to say it's getting a bit ridiculous that we're debating for pages the merits of an OEL trade based on one proposal put out there by a new poster that has little to no basis in fact whatsoever. I'll say it again--Arizona did not make two big "win now" trades only to kick the can down the road yet again.

Far as speculation goes though, Comeau to Edmonton actually makes sense. Their bottom six is indeed atrocious and they need a good PK forward like yesterday...not to mention scoring depth of any kind.

The amount a poster has posted has zero impact on credibility or their ideas. You are well aware I’m sure of the lawton speculation that sprung OEL talks on Hfboards. Go to another teams forum and check their trade rumor thread, there is a good chance OEL’s name will be on the last few pages. This is a legitimate issue to discuss. It’s not as big of a pipe dream as other defenceman on his level, I think you’d agree. I doubt Chayka is hanging up immediately when his name is brought up like he would have a few years ago. Let me ask you, do you think that a LHD lineup of Girard, Zadorov, and Bigras will ever challenge for a cup? Or will be a perennial playoff team? If no, then you need to either draft one or aquire one through trade. If drafted in this years draft, the player will not be ready to be a cup winning LHD for a minimum 5 years, probably closer to 7, unless it’s a 1st overall type of player. In that time, a #3 D in EJ will have been wasted and Mack and Landy will be out if their statistical primes for forwards. The goal is to the win the Stanley cup. If ever given a chance to better your odds at a cup, you need to take the shot. If drafting is a likely poor solution, or at least a very time consuming one, the only alternative is trade or free agency. It’s extremely rare to aquire a #1 D through free agency so we’re left with trade. Is anyone going to trade you a 23 year old #1 LHD? No, not for Mackinnon even. If not OEL, a player that could be possibly in need of a change of scenery, than who? Or do you think our defence will be a cup contending one in the next 5 years as is?

 

[Freaky Styley]

I agree the Oilers need to switch up their lines. I don't see how something like this wouldn't kick start some people:
Maroon - McDavid - Slepyshev
Lucic - Draisaitl - Strome
Cagguila - RNH - Puljujarvi
Jokinen - Letestu - Kassian

 

[Pokecheque]

Not trying to say you have no credibility because you're new, or any other reason for that matter. If that was the implication that came across I sincerely apologize. I've been on these boards for years...I don't have a single shred of credibility more than you do.

I just think the back-and-forth triggered by your post has been...extreme. Even by the usual standards.

For the record I don't think your proposals were laughable. If you truly could get those two defenders on this blueline I say go for it, though I'd have serious reservations about the cap situation going forward, not to mention the fact that if OEL walks at the end of his deal...welp.

Again though, not my intention to shut you down or anyone else here. I'm not a mod so I couldn't shut anyone up here even if I wanted to (and I don't want to just for clarification). I just weighed in with my own two cents. I say that unless Rasmus Dahlin gets dropped in Chayka's lap I don't think he's moving OEL without OEL going to him and saying "I'm not re-signing in 2019." That's my point, especially since the batshit crazy owner in ARZ clearly wants a winner soon.

So I don't apologize for the opinion I ventured, but I do for the way I presented it.

 

[Eltuna]

Not trying to say you have no credibility because you're new, or any other reason for that matter. If that was the implication that came across I sincerely apologize. I've been on these boards for years...I don't have a single shred of credibility more than you do.

I just think the back-and-forth triggered by your post has been...extreme. Even by the usual standards.

For the record I don't think your proposals were laughable. If you truly could get those two defenders on this blueline I say go for it, though I'd have serious reservations about the cap situation going forward, not to mention the fact that if OEL walks at the end of his deal...welp.

Again though, not my intention to shut you down or anyone else here. I'm not a mod so I couldn't shut anyone up here even if I wanted to (and I don't want to just for clarification). I just weighed in with my own two cents. I say that unless Rasmus Dahlin gets dropped in Chayka's lap I don't think he's moving OEL without OEL going to him and saying "I'm not re-signing in 2019." That's my point, especially since the bat**** crazy owner in ARZ clearly wants a winner soon.

So I don't apologize for the opinion I ventured, but I do for the way I presented it.

I think the back and fourth nature it has triggered demonstrates that it’s a conversation worth having. Not just about OEL but about our defence as a whole. I think it comes down to two different philosophies, let’s call it the Roy versus Sakic ideologies. Roy would be very down for the trades I presented I think while Sakic would be much more cautious of it blowing up in his face. The Bravado, courage, arrogance and competitiveness of Roy could lead to a disaster trade if OEL were to leave or if the team couldn’t get it done even with Trouba or OEL. On the flipside, Sakic’s Patience, calm, cool, and collected style is likely to have a good team for awhile but possibly never a true winner. I don’t know what’s correct, but I know I’m more of a Roy than a Sakic and my posts reflect that I think.

 

[cgf]

Unless the bottom falls out, Makar is a much better prospect than whoever the Avs will select in the 8-16 range next year...

Nah. This draft is stacked. There could easily be talents as ridiculous as Makar's available in the 10-15 range.

Didn't want to clog up your main threads. And hey by all means you can simply pm me instead of replying. It's a fantasy related question though. Just looking for an opinion on how Landy has played this year. How's his growth from past years to this one. It's a dynasty type league, so those that aren't familiar with the style you keep the entire roster of players year to year.

That stuff aside. Wish you guys the best going forward. Whether that's squeaking into the post-season or landing a top3 pick, that's up to the hockey gods. Cheers.

The big question with Landy is always going to be usage. When he was handling all of the defensive duties so the MacK n Mikko line could face some more manageable minutes he had the season he had last year. This year he has been beasting since being put with MacK n Mikko on the top line.

The amount a poster has posted has zero impact on credibility or their ideas. You are well aware I’m sure of the lawton speculation that sprung OEL talks on Hfboards.[snip]

Lawton is the hackiest of hacks.

I suggest people to forget everything they think they know about OEL, to go watch him play for 3-4 games and then come back here to say that they want to trade the farm for him.

People who think we'd be trading for 2013 OEL are in for a rude awekening.

The benefits of playing for a team no one wants to watch.

And I would suggest everybody who thinks OEL isn't worth it should reflect on the ridiculous idea that a player is only as good as their last 10 games.

10 games...two full seasons+...same thing, right?

 

[Pokecheque]

I think the back and fourth nature it has triggered demonstrates that it’s a conversation worth having. Not just about OEL but about our defence as a whole. I think it comes down to two different philosophies, let’s call it the Roy versus Sakic ideologies. Roy would be very down for the trades I presented I think while Sakic would be much more cautious of it blowing up in his face. The Bravado, courage, arrogance and competitiveness of Roy could lead to a disaster trade if OEL were to leave or if the team couldn’t get it done even with Trouba or OEL. On the flipside, Sakic’s Patience, calm, cool, and collected style is likely to have a good team for awhile but possibly never a true winner. I don’t know what’s correct, but I know I’m more of a Roy than a Sakic and my posts reflect that I think.

Very cogent point. I agree that if some kind of balance could be struck between Roy's fiery, impetuous approach and Sakic's more laconic nature we'd see an ideal front office. I suppose I'm more Sakic than Roy but have said repeatedly on these boards that I want to see Roy given free rein somewhere in the NHL. Personally I think he'll fail, but I also dearly hope he proves me wrong, kinda like Sakic did to a certain extent with his latest trade.

 

[Eltuna]

Very cogent point. I agree that if some kind of balance could be struck between Roy's fiery, impetuous approach and Sakic's more laconic nature we'd see an ideal front office. I suppose I'm more Sakic than Roy but have said repeatedly on these boards that I want to see Roy given free rein somewhere in the NHL. Personally I think he'll fail, but I also dearly hope he proves me wrong, kinda like Sakic did to a certain extent with his latest trade.

It would be entertaining for sure. The duchene drama would never had happened with Roy at the helm, he’s too decisive to let a situation linger for so long. I just don’t think our current defence (including prospects) is going to be cup caliber. Not that they’re bad, but they just don’t fit together I don’t think. Hockey, as we all know, is a game of inches. Not just the game itself but also the managerial side. If, instead of Makar we were able to draft one spot sooner and select Heiskanen while also prying Ekholm out of Nashville instead of Girard (perhaps Poile would have considered this if Ekholm didn’t have such a monster postseason) then I wouldn’t be adamant about gutting the D.

Ekholm EJ
Heiskanen Barrie
Zadorov Meloche

Is a defence that has a chance of winning at least. I just can’t see

Girard EJ
Zadorov Makar
Bigras Barrie

As the solution. Not enough muscle, not enough actual defending or defencive awareness. So how can it be fixed? Maybe some posters look at that and think it’s good enough, which is fine, my opinion may be completely wrong. But if you look at that second defence and don’t think it can carry a team to a Stanley cup, than what is the solution? Seems like people would rather tear down an idea than present there own. Maybe you don’t like OEL, so okay, is there somebody else you have your eye on? Somebody that at least might be available under certain circumstances? Somebody worth speculating about? If you wait for a 2018 draftee to fix it, you’re going to be waiting for a very long time.

 

[agentblack]

This is the same Roy that called out Duchene for his 30th celly? Oh yeah I’m sure he would have been quiet and professional this whole time.

 

[Avs_19]

I'd rather have Cammalleri.

 

[Eltuna]

This is the same Roy that called out Duchene for his 30th celly? Oh yeah I’m sure he would have been quiet and professional this whole time.

Maybe not quiet, but quick. I don’t think duchene plays an avs game past last years trade deadline if Roy was calling the shots. Who knows how the value looked at that time. Roy has faults, but knowing what he wants isn’t one of them. There would be no insiders and journalists writing reports about Roy moving goalposts in his demands or not returning phone calls like Sakic got. Of course, those reports could be false, but even sakic’s biggest supporters must admit he dragged this out for probably longer than necessary.

 

[Vaslof]

Rather than trading our 2017 high pick (Makar) and our 2018 high pick (TBD) for 1 year of OEL, I'd rather just keep those two and build through the draft. If we manage to draft a top LD, we won't really be missing anything on defense anymore.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

NHL Insider trading on TSN tonight mentioned a tonne(10 to be exactly) of teams that are in the market for a forward right now.


I wonder if teams will come calling the Avs about Andrighetto at some point. 12 Points in 16 games this year after 16 in 19 games last year for us. 28 points in 35 games now is starting to become a large enough sample size to say he could be a quality, cheap Top 9(At the very least) forward for some teams over the next 2 years.


I dont think the Avs should be looking to give him away, but with the number of young guys we have who are looking to get more ice time, and Sven making just 1.4M over this year and next he could be a valuable asset to a team looking for scoring depth.


McKenzie in particular mentioned Tampa and Florida being in the market for Top 9 Wingers and I think Sven would fit on both of those teams quite well.


Question is what kind of return would be a good enough return to justify moving Sven, who's been quite good for us but maybe doesn't have a future here with the young forwards coming up? I think if Sven continues as he is, it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask for a 1st from a contender like Tampa Bay. Or at the very least a 2nd + B level prospect.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah I'd want at least a 2nd for Sven, but I'd rather keep him for this season. He's a quality stop gap until the youngsters are ready. Then sell high on him next year.

 

[agentblack]

NHL Insider trading on TSN tonight mentioned a tonne(10 to be exactly) of teams that are in the market for a forward right now.


I wonder if teams will come calling the Avs about Andrighetto at some point. 12 Points in 16 games this year after 16 in 19 games last year for us. 28 points in 35 games now is starting to become a large enough sample size to say he could be a quality, cheap Top 9(At the very least) forward for some teams over the next 2 years.


I dont think the Avs should be looking to give him away, but with the number of young guys we have who are looking to get more ice time, and Sven making just 1.4M over this year and next he could be a valuable asset to a team looking for scoring depth.


McKenzie in particular mentioned Tampa and Florida being in the market for Top 9 Wingers and I think Sven would fit on both of those teams quite well.

Tampa wants more scoring? jesus.