Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

Status
Not open for further replies.

MvpKinnon

#29
Jul 23, 2011
1,496
17
Helsinki, Finland
I wonder if Tavares would agree to come to Colorado for 1 year at $10-12M. How beastly would that top-6 be?!

2 years would make it difficult to re-sign guys like Rantanen and Zadorov but one year wouldn't make a difference cap-wise.
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
I don't see how the Avs can trade Barrie in the offseason without really messing up team chemistry as well as destroying the defensive depth. Sure, once Timmins/Makar prove themselves as NHL-ready defensemen then he may become expendable, but until then it really looks like the team needs him. Don't forget that the locker room (MacKinnon especially) really likes him - that's a factor.

And I'm saying this as someone who genuinely believes that over the course of a season Barrie hurts the team with his poor defensive play more than he helps it with his offensive play. It really is as if when he's on the ice the Avs are playing with 4 forwards. It's no coincidence they're leading the league in shorthanded goals against - their #1 unit essentially uses 5 forwards.

I know most people laugh at the very idea or dismiss it as never-gonna-happen, but just imagine if rather than trading him, they kept him but at some point transition him to forward. I personally think his skillset is much much more suited to playing wing and he'd be very successful as a scoring winger. That way you keep the team chemistry, keep his offensive skills on the team, but leave space for Girard/Makar to be the top offensive defenseman and stop hurting the team with Barrie's abysmal defensive play.
 

Perratrooper

Registered User
May 26, 2016
5,428
4,052
Alberta
I don't see how the Avs can trade Barrie in the offseason without really messing up team chemistry as well as destroying the defensive depth. Sure, once Timmins/Makar prove themselves as NHL-ready defensemen then he may become expendable, but until then it really looks like the team needs him. Don't forget that the locker room (MacKinnon especially) really likes him - that's a factor.

And I'm saying this as someone who genuinely believes that over the course of a season Barrie hurts the team with his poor defensive play more than he helps it with his offensive play. It really is as if when he's on the ice the Avs are playing with 4 forwards. It's no coincidence they're leading the league in shorthanded goals against - their #1 unit essentially uses 5 forwards.

I know most people laugh at the very idea or dismiss it as never-gonna-happen, but just imagine if rather than trading him, they kept him but at some point transition him to forward. I personally think his skillset is much much more suited to playing wing and he'd be very successful as a scoring winger. That way you keep the team chemistry, keep his offensive skills on the team, but leave space for Girard/Makar to be the top offensive defenseman and stop hurting the team with Barrie's abysmal defensive play.

A lot of what Barrie brings to this team is his presence coordinating the play from the back end. He has fantastic vision, makes solid break out passes and is possibly one of the best players in the league at getting shots through to the net. He might not be the best “defense”man, but the league seems to be moving towards a much more fluid concept of what a player has to be (see Werenski, Karlsson, Ghost). I like Barrie on the back end and think he’s a fine number three
 

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
A lot of what Barrie brings to this team is his presence coordinating the play from the back end. He has fantastic vision, makes solid break out passes and is possibly one of the best players in the league at getting shots through to the net. He might not be the best “defense”man, but the league seems to be moving towards a much more fluid concept of what a player has to be (see Werenski, Karlsson, Ghost). I like Barrie on the back end and think he’s a fine number three

I know exactly what you mean, but I think the new NHl d-man is more like Girard then Barrie. Girard seems, despite his size, to be able to use his stick and body to get guys off the puck effectively, then skate/pass it out of trouble. Barrie is not that guy (he doesn't seem to be able to grasp/use defensive body position), and the thing is, with his offensive skill it's a crime to not get him on the ice as much as possible, which means that when the play breaks down we're relying on him to cover guys in front of the net, which he seems completely incapable of doing.

Yes, he has great vision and passing ability, but if you put MacKinnon at defense you'd probably see the same things. Meanwhile his ability with the puck down low, and passing and shooting ability from below the circles is as good as any forward on the team. Yet as a defensemen he so rarely gets to use those skills.
 

Bender

Registered User
Sep 25, 2002
17,183
8,366
I've been one of the more vocal guys about trading Barrie because the 'writing is on the wall' so-to-speak for a while but his play since EJ got injured has me genuinely intrigued to the point where I've flip-flopped.

Barrie has stepped it up with his overall play and has been playing just fantastic hockey on the 1st pair. What impresses me the most is that he's playing a smarter game and taking fewer chances and making better decisions with the puck all the while maintaining his strong offensive puck drive. I honestly didn't think he had it in him and I thought he was who he was. Barrie is reaching the magical 400 GP (396) plateau which is often widely considered the benchmark for d-men to tell you what kind of player you've got. We'll see if he can maintain this level of play but the way he's been playing the past little while, I wouldn't consider him a #3 d-man...he's been playing like a top-pairing guy for sure.

So for all those reasons, I think the Avs would be wise to hang on to him at least for the foreseeable future. He's also a big part of why we have a great shot at the playoffs. If we were to trade him though, the return would have to be phenomenal.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Apr 29, 2012
44,898
41,995
Caverns of Draconis
I wonder if Tavares would agree to come to Colorado for 1 year at $10-12M. How beastly would that top-6 be?!

2 years would make it difficult to re-sign guys like Rantanen and Zadorov but one year wouldn't make a difference cap-wise.


First of all, no player is ever going to willingly sign a 1 year contract in the prime of there playing career. The amount of substantial risk associated with signing just a 1 year deal for a player like Tavares is absolutely massive and he has absolutely no reason to take on that kind of risk.

Second of all, this narrative that the Avs are in some sort of cap trouble coming up in 2 years needs to die already. We have tonnes, literally tonnes, of cap space to sign Rantanen, Zadorov, Tavares, and whoever else we wanted to sign in the coming year.

We have over 30M in cap space next season. Rantanen and Zadorov are at most going to add 10M to our cap. Colin Wilson and his 4M cap hit comes off the books the same year those two need new deals. Varlamov and his 5.9M comes off the books in the same year. Soderberg and his 4.75M comes off the following year.

The Avs have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to cap space and we're only going to get more and more space in the coming year.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,142
37,285
This is the fourth time Barrie had to take over the role of the team's #1D because of an extended injury to EJ. Of those four times there was only once where he didn't rise his game and compete well in that role and that was last year in a season which, at this point we should all realize shouldn't be used to judge anybody.
 

Barklez

Bednar Fanboy
Mar 27, 2011
1,710
1,416
BC
I've been one of the more vocal guys about trading Barrie because the 'writing is on the wall' so-to-speak for a while but his play since EJ got injured has me genuinely intrigued to the point where I've flip-flopped.

Barrie has stepped it up with his overall play and has been playing just fantastic hockey on the 1st pair. What impresses me the most is that he's playing a smarter game and taking fewer chances and making better decisions with the puck all the while maintaining his strong offensive puck drive. I honestly didn't think he had it in him and I thought he was who he was. Barrie is reaching the magical 400 GP (396) plateau which is often widely considered the benchmark for d-men to tell you what kind of player you've got. We'll see if he can maintain this level of play but the way he's been playing the past little while, I wouldn't consider him a #3 d-man...he's been playing like a top-pairing guy for sure.

So for all those reasons, I think the Avs would be wise to hang on to him at least for the foreseeable future. He's also a big part of why we have a great shot at the playoffs. If we were to trade him though, the return would have to be phenomenal.

So we’re talking top line winger then? Or still just top 6?
 

GoNordiquesGo

Registered User
Oct 1, 2016
640
608
Montreal, Quebec
There is no way Sakic is trading Barrie this off season. There is no one to replce him. Girard is not replacing Barrie, Girard is being Girard, another member of the top 4., aling with EJ, Z and Barrie. You trade Barrie and you are left with a gaping hole, which will be even bigger once EJ gets injured. For the first time in ages we have a decent top 4. No way Sakic blows it this off season. Not with two years left on his contract. For what? To get a greater return than his he waits a little longer? Not a chance. At worst, he will wait and see how next year goes, and then maybe trade him at the dealine if we have an horrid season or if another Dman steps up BIG time during the year. Stockpiling assets is no longer Sakic's #1 priority. He has done that big time with the Duchene deal. Now his #1 priority his winning, and stockpiling assets has become the #2 priority (not #7, but has slide to #2). I cringe every time I read about trading Barrie this summer... Can we please keep having a decent Dcorp for once...
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,142
37,285
I just wish Barrie could play like EJ's out all the time.
Same could be said about a lot of players. They seem to take on larger roles with open arms to prove their worth. Let's hope this final stretch and then into the playoffs we see all those guys bring their absolute best.

If we see Mackinnon, Mikko, Gabe, Soderberg, Ej, Barrie and Zadorov all playing at their peaks we're beating Vegas. I'm not the type of person that speaks with that kind of confidence about my team but that in my opinion is a no doubter. All those guys have shown their peaks recently and it's been freaking scary. All of them doing it at the same time and Vegas wont stand a chance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf and CobraAcesS

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
Lol... should every great offensive defensemen change positions to forward?

See, this is what I prefaced my suggestion with the idea that everyone laughs at it.

But I'll answer your question anyway: No, of course not. That would be idiotic.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
36,410
36,614
Edmonton, Alberta
See, this is what I prefaced my suggestion with the idea that everyone laughs at it.

But I'll answer your question anyway: No, of course not. That would be idiotic.
It's laughed at because it's not plausible. It's extremely rare for position changes to take place, and they almost never take place at the NHL level. The only players I can think of over the last ~10 years that have transitioned from forward to defence or defence to forward are Brent Burns, Dustin Byfuglien, and Mark Streit. It just doesn't happen. In the cases of Burns and Byfuglien, they went from forward to defence.

Besides, why would you want to remove a player from where they are most comfortable and a position they've played all their life into a position they've likely never played?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf and Foppberg

MarkT

Heretic
Nov 11, 2017
3,993
4,496
It's laughed at because it's not plausible. It's extremely rare for position changes to take place, and they almost never take place at the NHL level. The only players I can think of over the last ~10 years that have transitioned from forward to defence or defence to forward are Brent Burns, Dustin Byfuglien, and Mark Streit. It just doesn't happen. In the cases of Burns and Byfuglien, they went from forward to defence.

Besides, why would you want to remove a player from where they are most comfortable and a position they've played all their life into a position they've likely never played?

Yeah, I already acknowledged it's extremely unlikely. I wasn't aware that makes something a bad idea. I'm not arguing that the Avs will move Barrie to forward or that they are likely to do so. I'm arguing that they should

As for why I would want him moved from where he's comfortable - because it's what's best for the team. Why should a player who has played top line offensive minutes and been a star all their life have to be a 4th liner and kill penalties in the NHL? It's not what they're used to or comfortable with but it's what lots of players need to do because it's what's best for the team.

Tell me this - assuming he was fine with it and worked hard to be good at it, do you think he'd be better as a winger or as a defenseman?
 

Barklez

Bednar Fanboy
Mar 27, 2011
1,710
1,416
BC
Yeah, I already acknowledged it's extremely unlikely. I wasn't aware that makes something a bad idea. I'm not arguing that the Avs will move Barrie to forward or that they are likely to do so. I'm arguing that they should

As for why I would want him moved from where he's comfortable - because it's what's best for the team. Why should a player who has played top line offensive minutes and been a star all their life have to be a 4th liner and kill penalties in the NHL? It's not what they're used to or comfortable with but it's what lots of players need to do because it's what's best for the team.

Tell me this - assuming he was fine with it and worked hard to be good at it, do you think he'd be better as a winger or as a defenseman?

You’ve been answered by other posters. Putting Barrie at wing takes away his strengths. Not to mention he gets away with being a bit undersized but stocky on defence but if you think he gets bullied in his own zone, he’d be useless along the boards as an attacker.

You’ll notice that 2 of the 3 that he listed as transitioning successfully ar practically twice Barrie’s size, not a coincidence.

He’s probably not even an NHL caliber player at wing TBH.

Not to mention it then takes our D corps back down to being a significant weakness when this is one of the first years it hasn’t been in ages.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Sponsor
Feb 24, 2012
61,921
45,271
Easily better as a defensemen... it fits the way he plays the game much better. I think Barrie would be borderline terrible as a scoring winger. You're asking a player who is better with the puck than without it, and isn't the greatest on the boards to play without the puck more and to do boardwork as a main job. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. IMO Barrie is clearly showing he is a top pairing D. He isn't a #1 by any stretch, but he is a #2 and a very solid one at that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cgf and Barklez

Bubba Thudd

is getting banned
Jul 19, 2005
24,571
4,666
Avaland
Same could be said about a lot of players. They seem to take on larger roles with open arms to prove their worth. Let's hope this final stretch and then into the playoffs we see all those guys bring their absolute best.

If we see Mackinnon, Mikko, Gabe, Soderberg, Ej, Barrie and Zadorov all playing at their peaks we're beating Vegas. I'm not the type of person that speaks with that kind of confidence about my team but that in my opinion is a no doubter. All those guys have shown their peaks recently and it's been freaking scary. All of them doing it at the same time and Vegas wont stand a chance.

*and Varlamov
 

Patagonia

Keep Whining
Jan 6, 2017
7,621
3,245
lol you just hate giving Tyson credit,huh? Why the f*** should nemeth get any credit whatsoever for not being Nate f***in Guenin?

I thought you wanted to move Barrie + Sens 1st +++ for Draisatl? If he was so important, why would you even consider a Forward that would play 2C and sacrifice a portion of the young players?

Nemeth has the highest +/- (more than double) the next closest player. Barrie is consistently among the the team leaders regardless of his scoring the worst +/-every year.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
36,410
36,614
Edmonton, Alberta
Yeah, I already acknowledged it's extremely unlikely. I wasn't aware that makes something a bad idea. I'm not arguing that the Avs will move Barrie to forward or that they are likely to do so. I'm arguing that they should

As for why I would want him moved from where he's comfortable - because it's what's best for the team. Why should a player who has played top line offensive minutes and been a star all their life have to be a 4th liner and kill penalties in the NHL? It's not what they're used to or comfortable with but it's what lots of players need to do because it's what's best for the team.

Tell me this - assuming he was fine with it and worked hard to be good at it, do you think he'd be better as a winger or as a defenseman?
But, they shouldn't. Like, that's a disaster waiting to happen. And since when do players that have played top line offensive minutes and been stars get moved to the 4th line because it's what's best for the team?
Easily better as a defensemen... it fits the way he plays the game much better. I think Barrie would be borderline terrible as a scoring winger. You're asking a player who is better with the puck than without it, and isn't the greatest on the boards to play without the puck more and to do boardwork as a main job. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. IMO Barrie is clearly showing he is a top pairing D. He isn't a #1 by any stretch, but he is a #2 and a very solid one at that.
Pretty much this. Not to mention his top end speed isn't the greatest. He's great laterally and shifting, but there's a clear difference in skating as a forward versus skating as a defensemen. Barrie IMO would struggle as a forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Barklez
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->