Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine

[93LEAFS]

Matthews season with Zurich was 50 games long. 13 games is by no means irrelevant sample size.

You are brushing MVP of a major league aside much too lightly. MVP of a major men's league. Just let that sink a bit and, then compare it to what Matthews has accomplished so far.

I would still go with Matthews because he is a center, but the whole discussion has become all too partizan to be of any use.

Matthew's was arguably the best player in the NLA, and had the second higher PPG of any player who played more than 20 games behind a guy who had a pretty good NHL career. I'd say thats pretty important, and many are brushing that aside for Laine getting 15 points in 18 games. What Laine did was very impressive, but a lot of the things using Matthews first round against him and WJC is ridiculous. Its not like Matthews was non-existen in the NLA, he put up 1.27 points a game, and some metrics believe that leagues scoring translates to the NHL better, and even if you use old numbers that rate Liiga as better, Matthews numbers are still more impressive. I've said multiple times I think Laine is an amazing prospect, and would be ecstatic if my team got him, but some of the claims here border on ridiculous and have little merit.

 

[X66]

I hope both these players rip it up at the world's, it would be great to watch

 

[kabidjan18]

The most recent play we have are these set of games, and awards that players earned through the merit of their play. If this is not a layer of information than how do you evaluate players in big games?

Matthews
- Under 20 elimation game Russia 0 points. Age 18
- Zurich playoffs game 4 elimination game. 0 points

Puljujarvi
- Under 18 gold medal game. 3 goals. Age 17
- Under 20 gold medal game. 2 Assists. Age 17
MVP of for the gold medal under 18 game.
Most Valuable Player WJC under 18

Laine
-Under 20 gold medal game 1 goal, 1 assist. Age 17
-Finnish Championship deciding game 1 goal
Jari Kurri Trophy for playoff MVP.

You don't.

This is unfortunately something that ESPN and sports journalism have ingrained in the minds of average fans, this idea of the championship game clutch factor, or X factor. No scout is sitting there thinking "well this player will perform better if we theoretically make a championship game 7." All the considerations are pertaining to who will take us to the championship, not who in theory could potentially produce slightly better a larger percent of the time in a nominally higher stakes game than another player.

 

[Murky]

Matthew's was arguably the best player in the NLA, and had the second higher PPG of any player who played more than 20 games behind a guy who had a pretty good NHL career. I'd say thats pretty important, and many are brushing that aside for Laine getting 15 points in 18 games. What Laine did was very impressive, but a lot of the things using Matthews first round against him and WJC is ridiculous. Its not like Matthews was non-existen in the NLA, he put up 1.27 points a game, and some metrics believe that leagues scoring translates to the NHL better, and even if you use old numbers that rate Liiga as better, Matthews numbers are still more impressive. I've said multiple times I think Laine is an amazing prospect, and would be ecstatic if my team got him, but some of the claims here border on ridiculous and have little merit.

Thing is, I agree with you. Some points are borderline ridiculous it is just that I count some of yours among them. Also, before getting angry, I would like to point out that first there are others as well and as I said the whole environment of the discussion is so partizan that many seem to be loosing the clear judgement.

Matthews has his merits, as I said, I would still take him before Laine. But Laine is an MVP in play offs of a major men's league, and I dare say that Liiga is a different level of competition to NLA, and I hope that some metrics aside we can at least agree on that.

I guess what I am saying is - Laine has been more impressive in my eyes recently. I'd still take Matthews.

 

[QnebO]

I hope both these players rip it up at the world's, it would be great to watch

This. I'm no matthwes hater by any means, any one shouldn't be. I actually hope both players tear it and I hope both could become legends if that's possible. This draft talk just has polarized things alot. Some matthwes fans basically putting their hands to their ears when some one argues for Laine, some are so high on Matthwes they ridicule every one who dear to talk about some one else being #1 overall. And also Laine fans also guilty of not agreeing Matthwes is probably very, very great and deserved his #1 status last year, and could still be the best and probably there is some serious skill behind this "consensus".

But we got to see over this argument. Only right way is to hope both will be absolutely amazing. Both are hockey players and we love hockey so wth.

 

[kunekune]

One exhibition game or even one group stage game doesn't tell too much about their abilities but the WHC as a whole tournament will tell a lot where these guys go at the moment.

Both guys are most likely getting top minutes and pp resposibility so it'll fun to watch them

 

[playasRus]

This. I'm no matthwes hater by any means, any one shouldn't be. I actually hope both players tear it and I hope both could become legends if that's possible. This draft talk just has polarized things alot. Some matthwes fans basically putting their hands to their ears when some one argues for Laine, some are so high on Matthwes they ridicule every one who dear to talk about some one else being #1 overall. And also Laine fans also guilty of not agreeing Matthwes is probably very, very great and deserved his #1 status last year.

But we got to see over this argument. Only right way is to hope both will be absolutely amazing. Both are hockey players and we love hockey so wth.

I just like when there's more "parity" at the top in a draft and you can be surprised with high picks. Makes the draft more exciting as well as prospect progression.

 

[hutter]

I just like when there's more "parity" at the top in a draft and you can be surprised with high picks. Makes the draft more exciting as well as prospect progression.

Would be kind of funny if both ended up sub-par. The parity fuels the discussion this year a hell of a lot more than last year for sure though. People seem to be really passionate about Laine on this board, not so much Matthews. What's crazy is that Eichel shot harder, was faster and was smarter than either at the same age, not even looking at McDavid.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You don't.

This is unfortunately something that ESPN and sports journalism have ingrained in the minds of average fans, this idea of the championship game clutch factor, or X factor. No scout is sitting there thinking "well this player will perform better if we theoretically make a championship game 7." All the considerations are pertaining to who will take us to the championship, not who in theory could potentially produce slightly better a larger percent of the time in a nominally higher stakes game than another player.

That's not for you to say. Scouting is subjective and one can use any layer of information they choose.

I will say it would be revolutionary for scouts to not scout big games or be swayed by them.

 

[kabidjan18]

That's not for you to say. Scouting is subjective and one can use any layer of information they choose.

I will say it would be revolutionary for scouts to not scout big games or be swayed by them.

Yep, you as an amateur fan can use whatever "layers" you want, they just have no meaning. I could also rank their fighting abilities, that could be a layer too...

Exactly, casual fans are swayed by everything they hear on the tabloids, sports news, or ESPN first take. There's nothing revolutionary about them being pros and not following the "clutch" hype.

 

[bert]

Yup

It would make the pain of the last while all worth it. Hopefully the hockey gods bless us and make it happen. When Edmonton produces a winner we are among the best crowds in the NHL.

At some point you gotta think you've used up all your blessings... haha

 

[snipes]

At some point you gotta think you've used up all your blessings... haha

haha you would have thought that before we got McDavid