ATD #9 Playoff Discussion Issues

[FissionFire]

Rather than simply post this in every single thread, I've decided to make this a separate thread. I know I'm a first-timer so I might miss some of the rules, so if/when I do please post here and let me know.

One rule that I'm seeing broken too often is the rule against posting winner/loser predictions. DO NOT POST A PREDICTION OF WHICH TEAM YOU FEEL WILL WIN A SERIES. DO NOT POST ANYTHING TELLING THE PUBLIC HOW YOU INTEND TO VOTE. I'm not as concerned with predictions on the number of games a series will go, but I ask that everyone try to avoid that if possible as well.

If you've posted a prediction/intended vote, PLEASE go back and delete it ASAP. Thank you all for your cooperation.

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[VanIslander]

great thread idea FF

...the rule against posting winner/loser predictions. DO NOT POST A PREDICTION OF WHICH TEAM YOU FEEL WILL WIN A SERIES. DO NOT POST ANYTHING TELLING THE PUBLIC HOW YOU INTEND TO VOTE.

It undermines discussion, does no good.

The match-up threads are to discuss ASPECTS of the series. If a g.m. talks alot about a particular strength of one team, that doesn't necessarily say anything about overall judgements but it does improve analysis.

The discussions are supposed to increase info, inform our individual decision making, not cut the process short.

If you've posted a prediction/intended vote, PLEASE go back and delete it ASAP.

Please, yeah.

 

[shawnmullin]

Again I have no idea why either of you are saying this. Why can't people say who they think would win a series and why? Isn't that part of analyzing a series? The GMs around here are smart enough not to just be sheep and vote how someone else tells them.

 

[VanIslander]

we are NOT supposed to have made up our minds as to who'll win BEFORE the discussions

we are to keep an open mind

if you don't know how team x will overcome team y's defense, then say so! that'll add to and generate good discussion: maybe some discussion might help you

the g.m.s of the teams in the match-up are the ones committed to talking about why they'll win as opposed to strengths and weaknesses and possibilities (though even they oughtta do some of that too)

 

[shawnmullin]

We're not supposed to? That's sillly, if I have thoughts like "I think XXX would beat YYY" I could change my mind with the discussion. No one is going to make a rule to tell me how to think.

 

[VanIslander]

we used to withhold opinions about which team will win the series

piss on that tradition? k....

why bother discussing anymore... just line up on each side and argue argue argue

*beep* crap

 

[FissionFire]

We're not supposed to? That's sillly, if I have thoughts like "I think XXX would beat YYY" I could change my mind with the discussion. No one is going to make a rule to tell me how to think.

Precisely. You could change your mind which is why posting a prediction in the first place serves no purpose at all in analyzing the teams against each other.

Another issue is that posting a prediction lets the series GMs have an idea how you will vote. This opens the door to all sorts of sticky situations, such as attempting to garner favorable votes by posting that you support a certain team or potential vendetta votes against your team by the GM you don't vote for just to name two of the many possible problems. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, nor am I saying anyone is likely to do any this but GMs get very attached to their ATD teams and when emotions get involved crazier things have happened.

No predictions = less potential problems down the line. It's better to be proactive and prevent any chance of it from happening than it is to one day potentially have to face the reality of a tainted process.

 

[shawnmullin]

That's not remotely what I said. Piss on tradition? I've been in this draft since ATD 6 and some posters always posted who they felt would win. This is the first time I can even remember someone complaining about saying that... me saying "I think XXX would beat YYY in a tough seven game series" is just my opinion and up to others to counter for whatever reasons I say that. No one HAS to offer an opinion, but if they do why the hell not? And it can surely be changed.

 

[FissionFire]

That's not remotely what I said. Piss on tradition? I've been in this draft since ATD 6 and some posters always posted who they felt would win. This is the first time I can even remember someone complaining about saying that... me saying "I think XXX would beat YYY in a tough seven game series" is just my opinion and up to others to counter for whatever reasons I say that. No one HAS to offer an opinion, but if they do why the hell not? And it can surely be changed.

Why not just say "I think this will be a tough 7 game series" then? Why is it so necessary to state who you feel will win? That's what the vote is for.

 

[LapierreSports]

I was under the impression that we were suppose to give our predictions for every series in the discussion thread. Anyways, thats what I have been doing for 3 all time drafts.

 

[Leaf Lander]

please title this for draft 9

 

[Sturminator]

This opens the door to all sorts of sticky situations, such as attempting to garner favorable votes by posting that you support a certain team or potential vendetta votes against your team by the GM you don't vote for just to name two of the many possible problems. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, nor am I saying anyone is likely to do any this but GMs get very attached to their ATD teams and when emotions get involved crazier things have happened.

No predictions = less potential problems down the line. It's better to be proactive and prevent any chance of it from happening than it is to one day potentially have to face the reality of a tainted process.

Let's not kid ourselves that this doesn't already happen. The ATD is one part hockey history and one part Survivor-style reality TV nonsense, complete with all the cliqueishness, vendettas, brown nosing and generally weasely behavior we've come to associate with such social constructs. Of course, I don't consider this a weakness of the ATD, but rather one of it's greatest strengths. The ATD stirs our passions in a way that the dry and often boring History of Hockey discussions do not, and in so doing provides the motivation for a lot of valuable research that would otherwise not be undertaken.

The ultimate results are almost certainly skewed in favor of those with good reputations and political acumen. Like Churchhill said of democracy, however, it's the worst process in the world except for all the other ones. If we turned over the rock that hides our voting records from the light, a lot of slimy creatues would surely come scurrying out. We are humans; there can be no other way.