Why Montreal Should Win This Series - or Ingredients Of A Championship Team (Part I)
Re-post from the Regina series:
BenchBrawl said:
If you asked most hockey fans what they think a team needs in order to win a championship, you'd get many different answers, but some things would come up again and again.The things you'd hear most often would probably be:
-A strong center line
-A strong #1 defenseman
-A strong goalie
This is not very surprising, considering most of the Stanley Cup winners in history have had a strong center line, a strong #1 defenseman and a strong and/or hot goalie.
I want to point out that Montreal has the advantage in all three categories.
Montreal Has the Best Center Line
Bryan Trottier vs. Syl Apps
First, I'm wondering if the Top-20s in scoring are available anywhere in a neat format or table.It took me quite some time to get them and I'm sure others are interested in them too.That would be very kind.Data presented in good faith.
Bryan Trottier's Top 20 Finishes and VsX Numbers
-Goals: 5, 5, 6, 14, 19
-Assists: 1, 1, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8, 14, 18
-Points: 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19
-VsX 7 years (PTS): 93.7
-VsX 10 years (PTS): 87.2
-Replacement level (PPG)*: 96.2
Syl Apps' Top 20 Finishes and VsX Numbers
-Goals: 4, 5, 5, 6, 10, 12, 12, 13, 15, 15
-Assists: 1, 1, 6, 6, 11, 14, 16
-Points: 2, 2, 2, 6, 7, 8, 12, 12, 16
-VsX 7 years (PTS): 92.4
-VsX 10 years (PTS): 83.9
-Replacement level (PPG)*: 99.6
*The replacement level (PPG) data can be found in the
ATD Summary 2017 thread on page 3.
Hart Top 10 Record
Bryan Trottier: 1, 2, 2, 3, 5*
Syl Apps: 2, 2, 2, 3, 3
*Hesitated to put it at all, only 9 votes.
Competition For Hart
Bryan Trottier:
77-78: (2nd)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1 | Guy Lafleur | 145 | 30.66
2
|
Bryan Trottier
|
99
|
20.93
3 | Darryl Sittler | 67 | 14.16
4 | Don Edwards | 34 | 7.19
5 | Brad Park | 31 | 6.55
78-79: (1st)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1
|
Bryan Trottier
|
201
|
43.79
2 | Guy Lafleur | 84 | 18.3
3 | Marcel Dionne | 47 | 10.24
4 | Denis Potvin | 46 | 10.02
5 | Mike Palmateer | 18 | 3.92
80-81: (5th)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1 | Wayne Gretzky | 242 | 42.68
2 | Mike Liut | 237 | 41.8
3 | Marcel Dionne | 24 | 4.23
4 | Mike Bossy | 20 | 3.53
5
|
Bryan Trottier
|
9
|
1.59
81-82: (2nd)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1 | Wayne Gretzky | 315 | 100
2
|
Bryan Trottier
|
130
|
41.27
3 | Mike Bossy | 34 | 10.79
4 | Peter Stastny | 15 | 4.76
5 | Dale Hawerchuk | 13 | 4.13
83-84: (3rd)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1 | Wayne Gretzky | 306 | 98.71
2 | Rod Langway | 102 | 32.9
3
|
Bryan Trottier
|
54
|
17.42
4 | Rick Middleton | 31 | 10
5 | Ray Bourque | 17 | 5.48
Syl Apps:
38-39: (2nd)
RK| Player| Votes | %
1 | Toe Blake | 64 | 32.99
2
|
Syl Apps
|
45
|
23.2
3 | Johnny Gottselig | 30 | 15.46
4 | Earl Robertson | 28 | 14.43
5 | Eddie Shore | 27 | 13.92
39-40: (2nd)
RK |Player| Votes | %
1 |Ebbie Goodfellow | 57 | 28.36
2
|
Syl Apps
|
51
|
25.37
3 |Dit Clapper | 40 | 19.9
4 |Milt Schmidt | 32 | 15.92
5 |Earl Robertson | 21 | 10.45
40-41: (3rd)
RK | Player| Votes | %
1 | Bill Cowley | 88 | 23.1
2 | Dit Clapper | 81 | 21.26
3
|
Syl Apps
|
78
|
20.47
4 | Syd Howe | 72 | 18.9
5 | Bryan Hextall | 62 | 16.27
41-42: (2nd)
RK | Player | Votes | %
1 | Tom Anderson | 86 | 31.62
2
|
Syl Apps
|
48
|
17.65
3 | Lynn Patrick | 46 | 16.91
3 | Bill Thoms | 46 | 16.91
3 | Frank Brimsek | 46 | 16.91
42-43: (3rd)
RK| Player | Votes | %
1 | Bill Cowley | 94 | 32.08
2 | Doug Bentley | 67 | 22.87
3
|
Syl Apps
|
46
|
15.7
3 | Syd Howe | 46 | 15.7
5 | Frank Brimsek | 40 | 13.65
Selke Top 10 Record
-Trottier: 2, 8, 8, 10
-Apps: Pre-Selke, safe bet he wouldn't get any Top 10
Playoffs
-Trottier: 184 pts in 221 games, 6 Stanley Cups
-Apps: 54 pts in 69 games, 3 Stanley Cups
Neither Trottier nor Apps was the best forward in their respective teams, with Bossy and Kennedy taking the honor.Both were the best in some cups, but not overall.
Conclusion
Easy win for Bryan Trottier.The two are about equal offensively, but Trottier is significantly better defensively and way more physical.Also, in his career Trottier drew the tough match-ups nonestop.I'm not a specialist on the 40s Maple Leafs, but didn't Ted Kennedy faced the best centers? It seems logical but you never know.Trottier was also the man on faceoffs (though a role shared with Sutter, Chicago's 4th line center), whereas Kennedy was the man on those Leafs teams.Can't find anything about Apps' faceoff abilities.
***
Mike Modano vs. Pavel Datsyuk
Mike Modano's Top 20 Finishes and VsX Numbers
-Goals: 8, 8, 15, 16, 18
-Assists: 4, 13, 17, 17
-Points: 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 16
-VsX 7 years (PTS): 81.5
-VsX 10 years (PTS): 77.7
-Replacement level (PPG): 85.7
Pavel Datsyuk's Top 20 Finishes and VsX Numbers
-Goals: 19
-Assists: 2, 5, 8, 8, 9, 14
-Points: 4, 4, 10, 16, 17
-VsX 7 years (PTS): 82.5
-VsX 10 years (PTS): 77.1
-Replacement level (PPG): 86.6
Hart Top 10 Record
-Modano: 7, 7, 10
-Datsyuk: 3, 9, 10
Selke Top 10 Record
-Modano: 3, 4, 6, 6
-Datsyuk: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 3, 5, 9
Playoffs
-Modano: 146 pts in 176 games, 1 Stanley Cup
-Datsyuk: 113 pts in 157 games, 2 Stanley Cups
Both had a shaky reputation early on in their career.OTOH, I think it's fair to say that Modano was a better player in his signature runs.Modano played absolutely absurd minutes in 99 and 00, to the point where it looks like #2 defenseman icetime.
Conclusion
That's a win for Pavel Datsyuk.He was a much better defensive player and peaked higher offensively.Modano has better longevity and is a better playoff performer, but it's not enough to close the gap.Overall they appear quite close offensively, but the edge goes to the player who peaked higher.Datsyuk's star power is bigger than Modano, though of course having crazy danglings helps in that regard.
***
Frank Fredrickson vs. Anze Kopitar
Harder to compare Fredrickson and Kopitar, but here's an attempt anyway:
Sturminator did an analysis and tried to give "modernized Top finishes" to both Frank Fredrickson and Duke Keats.The methodology and Sturm's post can be found in my
Frank Fredrickson bio at the very bottom.
Frank Fredrickson's Top 10 Finishes (Modern Equivalent)
-Goals: 1, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7
-Assists: 1, 3, 3, 4, 8, 8
-Points: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9
Anze Kopitar's Top 20 Finishes
-Goals: 12
-Assists: 8, 9, 9, 14, 14, 20
-Points: 12, 15, 15, 16, 17
Even if you disagree with Sturm's methodology, I see no way that Fredrickson is not much better than Kopitar offensively.
More Details on Fredrickson's Prime Years
20-21
Right off the bat he led the PCHA in scoring and got on the
1st AST at center.Fredrickson is 25 years old by then.
Here's what Ion said (Ion was league referee and officiated all of the league's games):
Ion gives him the centre (Fredrickson) berth job, and in so doing, adds that the newcomer has played a dazzling and effective game at all times and that no other player approaches him for all-around effectiveness.
Here's the Top 5 scorers of all leagues from 20-21:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Newsy Lalonde | 43 | PCHA |
Frank Fredrickson
|
32
NHL | Babe Dye | 40 | PCHA | Fred Harris | 32
NHL | Cy Denneny | 39 | PCHA | Frank Foyston | 30
NHL | Joe Malone | 37 | PCHA | Jack Adams | 29
NHL | Frank Nighbor | 29 | PCHA | Jim Riley | 28
It's unclear where Fredrickson ranks in a consolidated league taking everything into account (not just scoring).But at least he was dominant in the PCHA and Ion's words are flattering.
21-22
Third in PCHA scoring, an unimpressive year for Fredrickson.
Finished 1st AST but as a sub.
Here's the Top 5 scorers of all leagues from 21-22:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Punch Broadbent | 46 | PCHA | Jack Adams | 30 | WCHL | Duke Keats | 56
NHL | Cy Denneny | 39 | PCHA | Mickey MacKay | 26 | WCHL | George Hay | 34
NHL | Babe Dye | 38 | PCHA |
Frank Fredrickson
|
25
| WCHL | Joe Simpson | 34
NHL | Harry Cameron | 35 | PCHA | Bernie Morris | 24 | WCHL | Ty Arbour | 33
NHL | Joe Malone | 31 | PCHA | Frank Foyston | 23 | WCHL | Barney Stanley | 31
22-23
Most likely the best season of his career, led the PCHA in scoring by a huge margin.Arguably the best player in the world.Obviously finished
1st AST at center.
Here's the Top 5 scorers of all leagues from 22-23:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Babe Dye | 37 | PCHA |
Frank Fredrickson
|
55
| WCHL | Art Gagne | 43
NHL | Cy Denneny | 34 | PCHA | Mickey MacKay | 40 | WCHL | Duke Keats | 37
NHL | Billy Boucher | 31 | PCHA | Lloyd Cook | 30 | WCHL | George Hay | 36
NHL | Jack Adams | 28 | PCHA | Frank Foyston | 28 | WCHL | Newsy Lalonde | 34
NHL | Mickey Roach | 27 | PCHA | Jim Riley | 27 | WCHL | Harry Oliver | 32
Some quotes from that year involving his defensive play and the comparison with Nighbor (from an Ottawa newspaper!):
"They were a pack of going hounds from whistle to whistle, and Frederickson pulled the greatest line of stuff he has ever shown. The big boy stickhandled his way through for lone scores, drew the defense and passed to others for combined goals, backchecked his opponents till they were dizzy and generally played hob with Seattle.
Fredrickson, however, was a marked man all night and in spite of the fact that he was watched closely and given little chance to bore through he managed to notch two counters and was far more effective in the art of back-checking than his elusive rival.
There is no player on the coast and none on the prairie that can be put in the class with Frederickson, say coast critics. The NHL may have a candidate, but even the great Frank Nighbor would undoubtedly find it difficult holding his own with the Icelander.
Neither Dick Irvin of Regina nor "Duke" Keats of Edmonton rank with "Freddie". Keats has a good head, but Freddie can skate rings around him and out-stickhandle him, and when it comes to shooting, the honors all go to the former Falcon skipper. Irvin is not capable of going over more than half the route, and while still tricky, clever and fast, he is not the pivot man that Frederickson is.
Frederickson looms as the greatest hockey player that is alive today. His four goals against Edmonton and his four goals and two assists against Seattle brand him as a star the like of which has not been seen in the hockey firmament for many years.
Some comments by Sturminator: "Fredrickson had clearly climbed the mountain by this point, and if the Ottawa Citizen calls him the best player in the world, I think they were probably right. Given the fact that Ion had also called him easily the best player in the PCHA as a rookie in 1920-21, there may be an argument for him being best in the world over a period longer than just the one volcanic season."
23-24
Finished
1st AST at center again.
Here's the Top 5 scorers of all leagues from 23-24:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Cy Denneny | 24 | PCHA | Art Duncan | 31 | WCHL | Bill Cook | 40
NHL | Georges Boucher | 23 | PCHA |
Frank Fredrickson
|
28
| WCHL | Harry Oliver | 34
NHL | Billy Boucher | 22 | PCHA | Mickey MacKay | 25 | WCHL | Duke Keats | 31
NHL | Billy Burch | 22 | PCHA | Frank Foyston | 23 | WCHL | George Hay | 31
NHL | Aurel Joliat | 20 | PCHA | Jack Walker | 23 | WCHL | Barney Stanley | 26
A quote from that year:
For the last half dozen years Foyston has been considered one of the greatest forwards in the game, being excelled in the west only by Frederickson, the crack Victoria center ice man.
24-25
This is the year that Fredrickson faced Morenz to go on to win the Stanley Cup.There seems to be a contradiction in the ASTs, with
one source having Fredrickson as a 1st AST as a sub and the other not having him at all.
Here's the Top 5 scorers of all leagues from 24-25:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Babe Dye | 46 | WCHL | Harry Oliver | 33
NHL | Cy Denneny | 42 | WCHL | Mickey MacKay | 33
NHL | Aurel Joliat | 41 | WCHL | Bill Cook | 32
NHL | Howie Morenz | 39 | WCHL | Duke Keats | 32
NHL | Red Green | 34 | WCHL |
Frank Fredrickson
|
30
The opinion of one sportswriter:
Which one of the following players is the best - please name them in the order they stand - Duke Keats, Howie Morenz, Frank Frederickson?
- Anxious, Stoughton
Your questions, of course, cannot be answered finally. In my opinion Frederickson outshone either Keats or Morenz for the 1924-25 season. He was right at the top of the W.C.L. scoring list and starred when the Victoria Cougars outclassed the Canadiens in the Stanley Cup final, Morenz being the pick of the Montreal team.
25-26
His scoring takes a hit, but he still gets on the
1st WHL AST as center.
Sturm's comment: "This is most likely due to two factors: the fact that Fredrickson received less icetime as a part of the Victoria shift system and the fact that he was a vastly superior defensive center to Irvin."
Here's the Top 8 scorers of all leagues from 25-26:
league | player | pts | league | player | pts
NHL | Nels Stewart | 42 | WHL | Bill Cook | 44
NHL | Cy Denneny | 36 | WHL | Dick Irvin | 36
NHL | Carson Cooper | 31 | WHL | Corb Denneny | 34
NHL | Jimmy Herberts | 31 | WHL | Art Gagne | 33
NHL | Aurel Joliat | 26 | WHL | George Hay | 31
NHL | Howie Morenz | 26 | WHL | Duke Keats | 29
NHL | Jack Adams | 26 | WHL | Harry Oliver | 25
NHL | Billy Burch | 25 | WHL |
Frank Fredrickson
|
24
26-27
Fredrickson finished
3rd in Hart voting, highest among all centers.
rk | player | age | votes | %
1 | Herb Gardiner | 35 | 89 | 24.05
2 | Bill Cook | 30 | 85 | 22.97
3 | Frank Fredrickson | 31 | 75 | 20.27
4 | Dick Irvin | 34 | 73 | 19.73
5 | King Clancy | 23 | 48 | 12.97
Here's the Top 5 scorers from the NHL:
league | player | pts
NHL | Bill Cook | 37
NHL | Dick Irvin | 36
NHL | Howie Morenz | 32
NHL |
Frank Fredrickson
|
31
NHL | Babe Dye | 30
Summary of Fredrickson's AST Finishes
20-21: 1st AST Center (PCHA) [
Possible competition (?): Lalonde, Nighbor, Malone] - 3rd?
21-22: 1st AST Sub (PCHA)
22-23: 1st AST Center (PCHA)
[Possible competition (?): Keats(1st AST C WCHL), Nighbor, Adam] -1st?
23-24: 1st AST Center (PCHA)
[Possible competition (?): Nighbor (Hart Winner), Morenz, Keats (1st AST C WCHL)] - 2nd?
24-25: 1st AST Sub (WCHL)
OR Not on any AST (contradictory sources)
- 5th?
25-26: 1st AST Center (WHL)
[Possible Competition (?): Keats, Stewart (Hart Winner), Nighbor (3rd in Hart), Morenz (6th in Hart)] -4th?
26-27: 1st in Hart voting among centers
-1st?
Something like 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th seems reasonable for a consolidated record, but up to you to crack that puzzle as you see fit.It should be said that once consolidated this is tougher competition than Kopitar at the high end, and I struggle to see how you could make it close no matter how you twist it.
Kopitar's AST record: 3rd, 6th, 6th, 8th
Defensive Game
Kopitar's Selke Record: 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 9
Clearly, Kopitar is a better defensive player than Fredrickson.I'm going to post what I have about Fredrickson's defensive game:
The big boy stickhandled his way through for lone scores, drew the defense and passed to others for combined goals, backchecked his opponents till they were dizzy and generally played hob with Seattle.
Frank Fredrickson was an accomplished defensive forward who, in a Stanley Cup finals of 1924-25, drew the role of checking the great Morenz. He did, too, and the Victoria Cougars triumphed 3 games to 1."
In his great days with the Canadiens, Morenz ws almost impossible to stop. Lester Patrick thought he had the answer in the Stanley Cup final of 1925 when the defending Cup holders went west to engage Lester's Victoria Cougars. Patrick instructed his versatile 29-year-old center, Frank Fredrickson, to hound Morenz every move he made. Fredrickson had long been a star, and eye-catching player with his tall, lean build - an all elbows-and-knees kine of frame - and his long-striding skating style.
Fredrickson, however, was a marked man all night and in spite of the fact that he was watched closely and given little chance to bore through he managed to notch two counters and was far more effective in the art of back-checking than his elusive rival.
In connection with the defensive weaknesses that the Pirates have usually displayed, a competent hockey man says:
"Don't blame the two defensemen always. Sometimes they have plenty of excuses for apparently leaving Miller unprotected in the nets. When the first line fails to meet a combination assault by the opposing team it drops back in a kind of demoralization on the defensemen. This screens from them the movements of the attacking line, and they have no chance to make plans to meet the assault. Pittsburgh's trouble so far on the defense has been poor checking by the line, and not sloppy work by the defensemen."
Frederickson's experience, and the fact that Milks is again playing a wing, his natural position, should go far toward remedying the faults pointed out by the critic.
Frederickson dropped his head one way and lurched the other way, leaving Horner immobilized like a statue.The shot went wide, and the puck skittered back to Pittsburgh territory, where Frederickson recaptured it and launched another attack
This is clearly not enough to compete, but at least Fredrickson has some two-way abilities.
Playoffs
Kopitar had two great runs where he won the cup and finished 1st in playoffs scoring.Fredrickson faced Morenz for the cup and beat him, and had some success in important games prior to his professional career by winning the Allen Cup (and also at the Olympics).Fredrickson performed well in the playoffs in general.
Conclusion
Frank Fredrickson was just a better and more important player than Anze Kopitar in his prime.
That's a clear win for Fredrickson.
***
Overall Conclusion
That's a clear win for Montreal as a whole.
***
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Montreal Has the Best #1 Defenseman
It's not exactly rocket science to say that Harvey > Chelios, but I'll show the usual data and make some specific remarks.I should point out that Harvey is arguably the only elite player in this series.
Norris Record (and AST* for pre-Norris era)
Harvey: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2*, 2*, 4.
Chelios: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6, 8
Hart Record
Harvey: 2, 3, 5, 5, 5
Chelios: 10 (unless you count that single 3rd place vote in 88-89 which was enough to put him at 5th overall lol)
To give a complete picture of how much defensemen received Top 5 Hart votes in each era, here's the list:
Top 5 Hart votings among defensemen up to 2011 (from TDMM)
1923-24 2) Sprague Cleghorn 4) Georges Boucher
1924-25 none
1925-26 2) Sprague Cleghorn
1926-27 5) King Clancy
1927-28 3) Eddie Shore 5) Ching Johnson
1928-29 3) Eddie Shore 4) Sylvio Mantha 5) King Clancy
1929-30 2) Lionel Hitchman 4) King Clancy
1930-31 2) Eddie Shore 3) King Clancy 4) Ebbie Goodfellow?
1931-32 2) Ching Johnson 4) Red Dutton (we only have the top 4)
1932-33 1) Eddie Shore (we only have the top 3)
1933-34 2) Lionel Conacher 3) King Clancy 4) Earl Seibert
1934-35 1) Eddie Shore 3) Art Coulter
1935-36 1) Eddie Shore 5) Red Dutton
1936-37 1) Babe Siebert 2) Lionel Conacher 3) Ebbie Goodfellow
1937-38 1) Eddie Shore 3) Babe Siebert
1938-39 5) Eddie Shore
1939-40 1) Ebbie Goodfellow 3) Dit Clapper
1940-41 2) Dit Clapper
1941-42 1) Tom Anderson
1942-43 none
1943-44 1) Babe Pratt 4) Earl Seibert
1944-45 4) Flash Hollett
1945-46 5) Jack Stewart
1946-47 none
1947-48 none
1948-49 none
1949-50 none
1950-51 3) Red Kelly
1951-52 none
1952-53 3) Red Kelly
1953-54 2) Red Kelly
1954-55 5) Doug Harvey
1955-56 4) Red Kelly 5) Doug Harvey
1956-57 5) Doug Harvey
1957-58 3) Doug Harvey
1958-59 none
1959-60 none
1960-61 none
1961-62 2) Doug Harvey
1962-63 none
1963-64 none
1964-65 none
1965-66 none
1966-67 5) Harry Howell
1967-68 4) Bobby Orr
1968-69 3) Bobby Orr
1969-70 1) Bobby Orr 5) Brad Park
1970-71 1) Bobby Orr
1971-72 1) Bobby Orr
1972-73 3) Bobby Orr
1973-74 3) Bobby Orr
1974-75 3) Bobby Orr
1975-76 2) Denis Potvin 5) Brad Park
1976-77 4) Borje Salming 5) Larry Robinson
1977-78 5) Brad Park
1978-79 4) Denis Potvin
1979-80 none
1980-81 none
1981-82 none
1982-83 4) Rod Langway 5) Mark Howe
1983-84 2) Rod Langway 5) Ray Bourque
1984-85 4) Rod Langway 5) Ray Bourque
1985-86 3) Mark Howe 4) Paul Coffey
1986-87 2) Ray Bourque
1987-88 none
1988-89 none
1989-90 2) Ray Bourque
1990-91 4) Ray Bourque
1991-92 none
1992-93 none
1993-94 none
1994-95 4) Paul Coffey
1995-96 none
1996-97 none
1997-98 none
1998-99 none
1999-00 1) Chris Pronger
2000-01 none
2001-02 none
2002-03 none
2003-04 none
2004-05 lockout
2005-06 none
2006-07 none
2007-08 4) Nicklas Lidstrom
2008-09 none
2009-10 none
2010-11 none
The late-80s/early-90s was evidently not a very defensemen-friendly era for Hart votings, but Bourque managed to extract some out of it.It's unclear whether Harvey's era was friendly to Hart votes at all, given that only him and Kelly received it and they're like some sort of oasis between WWII and Bobby Orr.Gadsby's almost complete lack of any Hart recognition could be a sign that it is Harvey's and Kelly's greatness which got them Hart votes, not the friendliness of their era.
Quarterbacking Championship Teams
Doug Harvey quarterbacked the greatest dynasty of all-time and was arguably the cornerstone of that team.He participated in 10 straight SC Finals.
Chelios won the cup in 1986 and 2002 (and 2008 but he was very old by then).He wasn't in his prime yet in 1986 and shared the work with rejuvenated Larry Robinson.He was 40 years old in 2002 and shared the work with prime Nicklas Lidstrom.He played great in both runs.He came close in 1989 in Montreal when they lost against Calgary, leading the team in scoring with Bobby Smith.Reached the Finals again in 92 but got swept by Lemieux' Penguins.Led the playoffs in +/-.
Clearly Chelios was a great playoff performer, but not on Harvey's level.
Controlling the Game
One major factor Harvey brings is his control of the tempo of the game.I want to substantiate it a bit.It's also very obvious as soon as you watch an old game on youtube that Harvey completely controls the game and is crucial to his team imposing its style and dominating the transition.
Kevin Shea said:
Harvey controlled the game like Orr did, but where Orr controlled it by carrying the puck, by acting as a forward, Harvey would slow the pace down, then pick it up.
Marty Pavelich said:
''And of course Harvey, we always thought that without Harvey on that team we could beat Montreal because he really was controlling the puck back on that blueline. He'd pick it up and take his time, get it out, move it out, get the guy in the open and throw it to him and away they'd go. To me, he was one of the greatest defenceman to ever play.''
Hockey's Glory Days said:
He could check, block shots, rush the puck, stickhandle, and pass, but what made him truly unique was the way he could combine his skills to control the pace of the game.
Putting a Roof on Winter said:
Harvey was the Habs’ general, directing play, controlling pace, passing with uncanny accuracy, and busting the head of anyone who got in the way of him or his teammates.
Doug Harvey Story said:
Harvey's brilliant passing set the devastating Montreal attack in motion, and his consummate puck control kept the other team from scoring
Legends of Hockey said:
He quarterbacked the power play, set the tempo for the transitional game and the counterattack, defended tenaciously, blocked shots and intimidated the opposition by merely stepping on the ice.
Legends of Hockey: One on One / Pinnacle said:
Dick Irvin very quickly discovered Harvey's greatest skill – the ability to control the temp of a game. Methodically, Doug carried the puck, at his own speed, surveying the ice landscape before he committed to any play.
Hockey's golden era said:
Not only was his passing a sight to behold but he could control game as he pleased.
Hfboards posters who saw Harvey played:
Dark Shadows said:
But overall, Harvey was the best I have ever seen defensively. A wizard. I have little doubt that if you put the best danglers in the game against Harvey one on one that he would pick their pockets and transition the puck up ice. His ability to control the tempo of a game was also unmatched. Its hard to imagine what his +/- would be like, but it certainly would be among the best ever, with his ability to control games 5 on 5.
Canadiens1958 said:
Orr was a better skater and had a better shot. Granted that the slapshot was in its infancy for most of Harvey's career.
Harvey had a better sense of the geometry of the ice especially in the defensive zone. He did not "chase" the way Orr did at times, rather he had the knack of letting the game come to him.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=711493
to be continued later...