At witch NHL players you compare Alex Bourret?
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Hossa
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Raffi Torres with more playmaking ability. He's that type of hitter, that type of offensive player, similar skating ability, with the only real difference being Bourret can set players up quite well, as well as score. Torres can just score.
Riggins
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The Messenger said:
That reason being these CSB scouts are out to lunch. Do remember that these are the guys that have Brule ranked at #6 in North America. I am not suggesting Bourret is a sure thing to be a great offensive player in the NHL.. but he is definitely a first round selection. Saying he may not go in the first two rounds is ludicrous. You're putting too much stock into these rankings. Latendresse is ranked 66th or something like that. Does that mean he will not go in the first 4 or 5 rounds? No way.
Epsilon
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Hobey Baker
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Mess
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Well you probably got to see Tucker play lots in Junior as he played in Kamloops and you know he was a great high scoring WHL player ..That included 137 & 140 point seasons ..Epsilon said:
and look at what that translates to for Darcy's NHL totals of 30-40 point a season as a NHL career..
here is his Link
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid%5B%5D=14475
So you really never know how these junior players will project as NHLer's and most people would say Darcy is having a very successful NHL career to boot .. and if Bourret can match that then he to will be a great pick and player .
Epsilon said:
I really don't think he has a higher offensive ceiling than that of Darcy Tucker's. Bourret will likely have to reinvent himself into a full-time Darcy Tucker when he gets into the NHL. In the QMJHL, he can showcase his talents against weaker competition, but if he gets into the NHL, his physical acumen is going to be his meal ticket. I don't think he will score more than 50 points ever in his career and teams should be satisfied with 40+ points. Darcy Tucker scored 140 points in the WHL while Bourret is only scoring at a 0.66 PPG rate in the QMJHL. Stats don't tell the whole story but his offensive potential is definitely limited.
Epsilon
#basta
The Messenger said:
I think Bourret's offensive game will translate better to the NHL than Tucker's. I see him a scorer in the 50-70 point range.
Epsilon said:
That is the kind of expectations you reserve for QMJHL stars like PM Bouchard. And as a part-time Minnesota fan, I'd be very happy if Bouchard could register 50-70 points regularly in his career. He'd be top 15 in NHL scoring if he could notch 70 points down the road.
And PM Bouchard scored 140 points in 69 games in the QMJHL in his sophomore season.
Bourret hsa 66 points in 45 games, he is definitely not in Bouchard's class offensively.
I don't think you can expect more than 40-50 points from Bourret.
Mess
Global Moderator
Montreal prospect Tomas Plekanec is also a good comparison both size and style wise ..
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=00056385
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=00056385
Jason MacIsaac
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Would you stop with the stats. You don't know how bad this is making you look. Stats means **** all. Bergeron didn't have the stats Vrana had in his rookie season or draft year yet Vrana is under a PPG in the QMJHL while Bergeron is putting up close to 40 in the NHL. If you watched Bourret more then once you will realize his style translates well for the NHL. What Bourret gets in points is not because of his physical dominance vs a weak level, it is his hockey sense and playmaking ability. His physical game doesn't jurt but he got where he is now with plenty of skill and a mix a grit.The Messenger said:
Mess
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Well then you would be way off ...Epsilon said:
Where do you think NHL teams would draft a player that they thought projected to a 50- 70 point player .. I guarantee it would be very near the top.. and in fact I am not even sure the guys right behind Crosby will be shooting for those levels any time soon, because then Gilbert Brule and Benoit Pouliot would all be Elite NHLers if they achieved them in comparison to Bourret projection..
Have you looked at the NHL totals lately .. and see where that would put that type of performance at .. I posted a link on the previous page ..
When you consider Brendan Morrison produced 60 points centering two of the highest scoring players in NHL Naslund and Bertuzzi ...
or
Franchise player Vincent Lecavalier gets 66 points playing with Martin St.Louis and Brad Richards
I have yet to see anyone project Bourret as a sure fire NHL first liner ..
So I am not sure where you guys are getting these lofty expectations from ..
Why are you saying Darcy Tucker when you should be saying Vinny Lecavalier instead .. ??
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Mess
Global Moderator
Well what do you suggest I just stick to wild inaccurate guess like everyone else or actually try to put some thought into my posts ..Jason MacIsaac said:
The people are quoting 60 point NHL .. only the elite few in the NHL achieve that amount in todays NHL .. If you want to believe that a player who is realtively low scoring by Junior comparisons projects to an elite scoring NHL go right ahead ..If you agree with those levels then what does Corey Perry project to ??
I wonder if playing with Joe Thornton may have had an influence on Bergeron's career and offensive outout.. I wounder how many he would have gotten with Travis Green and PJ Axelsson as regular linemates .. and scouts would be the first to say they blew the call on Bergeron .. I guess we are expecting the same from Bourret ...
Who do you think will be the better NHLer Bourret or his teammate Alexandre Picard??..
MeatTornado
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Jason MacIsaac
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Its really hard to say. I have to see who drafts Bourret first. If a team like Toronto or Washington gets him then I don't like his chances. If a team like Ottawa or Minnesota gets him then I like his chances more. I think Bourret has the better vision/passing and has more of a physical game (Picard is no slouch in this area either). Picard has better raw skils and fights better in high traffic areas.The Messenger said:
I don't mind the stats argument a little bit but thats all you went on throughout this whole thread verses people who actually seen Bourret play. I guess stats are better then a wild guess but not by much.
You do realize Bourret is over a PPG in his draft year. Lets put this into perspective.
Ladd = 75 points in 71 games
Picard = 80 points in 69 games
Chipchura = 48 points in 64 games
Wolski = 70 points in 66 games
Schremp = 75 points in 63 games
Staal = 98 points in 66 games
Horton = 68 points in 54 games
Getzlaf = 68 points in 70 games
Brown - 76 points in 56 games
Pouliot - 73 points in 65 games
Bourret = 102 points in 70 games (On pace if he played 70 games)
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rt
The Kinder, Gentler Version
Jason MacIsaac said:
He is playing in the QMJHL while guys like Ladd and Getzlaf played in the WHL and guys like Schremp, Staal, Horton, Brown and Wolski played in the OHL. Even though the QMJHL doesn't have scoring inflated as highly as they had in the past, it is still much easier to score in the Q than in the Dub or the OHL.
rt
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Epsilon
#basta
Mess
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Linemates and opportunity all are direct influences on points at any level as you pointed out .. .. So how accurate would it be to guess NHL points if you do not even know what team you will be drafted by at this point and what that team plans with him in the future ??Jason MacIsaac said:
Also I think you second paragraph is an overused Cliché .. " verses people who actually seen Bourret play" .
I saw him play in both games of the Russian Challenge and the Prospects game all in the last few months ... I thought Bourret had a great game and was one of the better players on the ice in the Prospect game in fact .. I would have named him one of the 3 stars ... He scored a nice goal on a wrist shot in the first Russian Challenge game and got robbed in the second in close, but had some good scoring chances . So I have nothing but great impressions of his skills and abilities, and his heart and tenacity ..
Your point only holds up if I was being critical of his play in limited viewings but I hold him in high esteem after watching him .. By your logic my assessment is not correct because I have not seen him enough .. That would suggest that he played poorly in the prospects game and I am missing out on the real Bourret who is much better in the Q .. A perfect example would be Montoya .. he had a poor WJC and NCAA fans would defend him saying just one tourney that is not the real Montoya we see at Michigan
Your argument is backwards .. I took limited viewings , gave him full marks for his effort and exciting body checks and compared him favourably to a player in the WHL like Tootoo that I have seen many many times being a WHL season ticket holder and am very familiar with.. Both go out of their way to throw earth shattering body checks despite their smaller stature, and play a similar game that makes them fan favourites...
If anything the people that see him all the time in the Q opinions would tend to be biased .. Mine would be flawed by the fact that in limited viewings I may overate him as a result of his play in those games and then his play could come down by multiple Q viewings .. NO ???
I was only objecting to the wild guesses in this thread or 60 - 70 NHL points , when the elite few get that total and the kid is not even drafted yet ..but already projected to Franchise levels for points in those posters minds ..
Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
Well I change my argument from you not seeing him enough just to being flat out wrong. Bourrets game is not similar to Tootoo at all. Take away the hitting and they are completly different players. Bourret is more of a playmaker where Tootoo a scorer (in junior that is). Tootoo isn't the smartest guy on the ice and doesn't allways make great plays with the puck. Tootoo's skill set is miles below Bourret.....that is passing ability, stickhandling, hand eye coordination, finding holes, drawing defenders away from their man......Bourret is better in allmost every area.The Messenger said:
Hossa
Registered User
Jason MacIsaac said:
I'll back this up. A lot of guys score in junior without having an impressive skill set. This does not need to be proved, there are so many examples of guys who didn't have the skills to succeed as a scorer in the NHL, that performed very well in juniors. Tootoo is like Rob Dimaio, a guy who scored in the WHL, but doesn't have NHL skill.
Bourret is not that type of player. He's a skilled player who happens to be a heck of a hitter as well. Tootoo does not have much offensive upside. It does not take a lot of watching him to realize his pure offensive skills are nothing special at all. Bourret is a different player all together. I think he's a pretty balanced offensive talent. You label him a playmaker, but while I agree his playmaking ability is quite good, I actually quite like his finishing ability as well. He can do both.
markov`
Registered User
The Messenger said:
Are you blind or what?
Tootoo in his draft year: 48 points in 60 games
Bourret in his draft year: 66 points in 45 games
I can't believe you dare to compare their offensive upside.
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