Jihadi Flames Fan
1989
- Sep 13, 2009
- 2,350
- 161
Line Combos: At what point will the lack of secondary scoring become a concern?
- Thread starter Jihadi Flames Fan
- Start date
It already is a concern.
The Bennett-Jankowski-Lazar line have looked pretty good so far but just haven't gotten any bounces. Hopefully once they get one, they'll be off and rolling.
Our 4th line is just atrocious. Having two 4th line players on our #1 PP unit is just unacceptable. Versteeg has been useless this season and Brouwer is... well... he's Brouwer.
The Bennett-Jankowski-Lazar line have looked pretty good so far but just haven't gotten any bounces. Hopefully once they get one, they'll be off and rolling.
Our 4th line is just atrocious. Having two 4th line players on our #1 PP unit is just unacceptable. Versteeg has been useless this season and Brouwer is... well... he's Brouwer.
CraigsList
In Conroy We Trust
The scoring will come. In the past couple of games the bottom 6 have had some decent chances, mainly speaking about the bust line.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Depth scoring is a concern, sure, but I think moreover, scoring in general is the real problem. Tonight we scored one goal, and it was on a PP. When the PP is the only thing scoring, then it's the guys on the PP who will get the points, and no one else.
Rangediddy
The puck was in
- Oct 28, 2011
- 3,710
- 809
You can see the confidence and creativity coming from Jankowski every game and he’s getting closer to getting his first points.
Bennett is figuring it out on the wing as well. They aren’t scoring now, but they very easily could be. I’m not too worried.
It’s the fourth line that could be dramatically upgraded. All three could be waived and not claimed and traded for the Heat’s top line with some offense probably coming with them.
Bennett is figuring it out on the wing as well. They aren’t scoring now, but they very easily could be. I’m not too worried.
It’s the fourth line that could be dramatically upgraded. All three could be waived and not claimed and traded for the Heat’s top line with some offense probably coming with them.
JPeeper
Hail Satan!
- Jan 4, 2015
- 11,599
- 8,716
It was a concern about 8 games ago and has been ever since.
The third line at least is getting some good looks these past few games with Janko and Bennett, but Lazar kills every play he is involved with, I don't see how anyone can defend this guy anymore; he's a bust, just send him down, he was never worth a 2nd rounder, just move on.
The "4th" line (in actuality it's the 3rd) is what it is, veterans who can't defend, skate, receive a pass, shoot, battle, clear pucks, hit, provide energy, out work the other team, get too much ice-time making everything they do magnificently worse. I don't expect a ton of offense from the 4th line, but when you get these golden opportunities (they had a ton the first 8-9 games) and can't hit the net, let alone scoring, then you shouldn't be on the team. They provide nothing to this team except "leadership" which no fan actually has any proof of. Fairly sure at this point Stajan and Brouwer getting more ice-time is doing more harm to Bennett's ego than Stajan or Brouwer are helping with their "leadership ability".
Like if I am a player for the Flames (I'll say Bennett) and I see our coach send Brouwer, Stajan and Versteeg out there only to have a complete dumpster fire of a shift, then I go out there and have a couple of good shifts and get some chances with Janko, only to see these 3 bums get more ice-time than me, while having horrendous shift after horrendous shift, AND ON TOP OF THAT GET PRIME POWERPLAY TIME, I'd be pissed off. I'm not surprised Bennett and/or Janko seem to have no confidence out there, the moron of a coach and 3 bums on our team are completely destroying it.
Bennett takes a penalty, gets benched for a period. Versteeg averages 19 turn overs a game, Brouwer can't receive a pass, Stajan can't do anything, yet get PP time and more ice-time/never benched/never put in the press box.
It's f***ing lunacy.
I expect nothing from the "4th" line, they are all beyond hopeless old bums, but Bennett and Janko should be producing and it will come, I have no doubt in my mind about it. But it will be a struggle with a doormat of a line-mate, and a monkey for a coach guiding them along into bust territory. People can blame Bennett all they want, Gulutzan has done a HORRIBLE job in developing him. Hartley got a lot out of him and he looked great his rookie year, ever since then he has taken huge steps backs.
I hate making these long posts, but it's hard not to complain and complain about the same crap when these little things are so infuriating and easily fixable, yet nothing happens because our coach/management is so f***ing stupid.
And our record is 7-6 for crying out loud, Mike Smith is the only reason why we aren't in the gutter with Arizona.
The third line at least is getting some good looks these past few games with Janko and Bennett, but Lazar kills every play he is involved with, I don't see how anyone can defend this guy anymore; he's a bust, just send him down, he was never worth a 2nd rounder, just move on.
The "4th" line (in actuality it's the 3rd) is what it is, veterans who can't defend, skate, receive a pass, shoot, battle, clear pucks, hit, provide energy, out work the other team, get too much ice-time making everything they do magnificently worse. I don't expect a ton of offense from the 4th line, but when you get these golden opportunities (they had a ton the first 8-9 games) and can't hit the net, let alone scoring, then you shouldn't be on the team. They provide nothing to this team except "leadership" which no fan actually has any proof of. Fairly sure at this point Stajan and Brouwer getting more ice-time is doing more harm to Bennett's ego than Stajan or Brouwer are helping with their "leadership ability".
Like if I am a player for the Flames (I'll say Bennett) and I see our coach send Brouwer, Stajan and Versteeg out there only to have a complete dumpster fire of a shift, then I go out there and have a couple of good shifts and get some chances with Janko, only to see these 3 bums get more ice-time than me, while having horrendous shift after horrendous shift, AND ON TOP OF THAT GET PRIME POWERPLAY TIME, I'd be pissed off. I'm not surprised Bennett and/or Janko seem to have no confidence out there, the moron of a coach and 3 bums on our team are completely destroying it.
Bennett takes a penalty, gets benched for a period. Versteeg averages 19 turn overs a game, Brouwer can't receive a pass, Stajan can't do anything, yet get PP time and more ice-time/never benched/never put in the press box.
It's f***ing lunacy.
I expect nothing from the "4th" line, they are all beyond hopeless old bums, but Bennett and Janko should be producing and it will come, I have no doubt in my mind about it. But it will be a struggle with a doormat of a line-mate, and a monkey for a coach guiding them along into bust territory. People can blame Bennett all they want, Gulutzan has done a HORRIBLE job in developing him. Hartley got a lot out of him and he looked great his rookie year, ever since then he has taken huge steps backs.
I hate making these long posts, but it's hard not to complain and complain about the same crap when these little things are so infuriating and easily fixable, yet nothing happens because our coach/management is so f***ing stupid.
And our record is 7-6 for crying out loud, Mike Smith is the only reason why we aren't in the gutter with Arizona.
Short term, the best option is start getting the top nine more icetime. The fourth line, what with being useless 5v5, doesn't need a regular shift; there minutes need to go to the players that might actually score. Long term, they might have to look at the system itself.
Wasn't Stajan benched 3 or 4 games ago?
Anyway, I agree for the most part. I'm not a fan of the coaching with this team.
OvermanKingGainer
#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
If Jankowski and Bennett and Jagr/Lazar sustain a 0% shooting percentage for the next 25+ games, it might be an issue.
Far more likely is that, as with every other team in the NHL over some stretch this season, we just have a third line currently on a cold streak. And yes, 2nd lines and 1st lines tend to carry the bulk of the scoring because they get the prime real estate on the power play and 3 on 3, allowing them to sustain a flow while he lower lines get the scraps.
The real question is this: are the 3rd line getting opportunities to score?
*thinks*
Bennett just misses Lazar on a two-on-0 break
Bennett sets up Versteeg on the doorstep and Anderson makes a sweet save
Bennett sets up Jagr from behind the net and Anderson makes a great save
Bennett sets up Tkachuk on a breakaway and Tkachuk misses the net
Tkachuk sets up Bennett in the slot and Bennett just fans on it
Jankowski sets up Bennett on the left door step that just gets saved
Bennett misses a wide open net on the door beside Grubauer
Jankowski gets a breakaway and gets stoned by Jarry
Jankowski nearly tips a Kulak floater from the left wall
Bennett gets a hard, accurate shot as the trailer and Jarry makes a great save.
Bennett makes a ridiculously awesome hit, takes the puck away from a Penguin D, then drives the net and nearly backhand top shelfs a goal on Jarry
Bennett, Jankowski, Gaudreau set up Lazar multiple times in prime scoring areas. He probably leads this team in botched chances..
That's just the ones I remember.
A different bounce the other way on any of the above and suddenly confidence builds, suddenly lines go on hot streaks instead of cold streaks. Now maybe Lazar isn't cut out to play top 9 - when Jagr gets healthy that won't be an issue - but even Curtis Lazar will get a bounce at some point.
3rd line is getting their opportunities to score. The floodgates will open and then scoring will be rectified. Bigger question is if Mike Smith can sustain his save percentage all year. 0% shooting is unsustainable, .935 save percentage is in an awkward zone between potentially sustainable and potentially just a hot streak by an almost 36 year old with a bit of a reputation as streaky, but also a .930-ish full season on his resume.
Now the fourth line is legitimately an issue. Stajan is a good center, by needs fast wingers flanking him. Brouwer has had some scoring chances this season, but he is undoubtably a possession sinkhole that is dragging Stajan down on a whole. Versteeg has arguably been our worst forward this year who only has points because of his power play opportunity (and one opportunistic ES goal where three other guys did all the work). It's probably time to healthy scratch Versteeg to send a message and put Mangiapane or Poirier in that spot. for the time being.
Finally, I would suggest keeping more of an eye on 5v5 CF% and PK stats than offensive stats like goals and PP stats - the former are known to correlate to team success, the latter are more related to viewer enjoyment. Look no further than either cup winning L.A. Kings team.
Far more likely is that, as with every other team in the NHL over some stretch this season, we just have a third line currently on a cold streak. And yes, 2nd lines and 1st lines tend to carry the bulk of the scoring because they get the prime real estate on the power play and 3 on 3, allowing them to sustain a flow while he lower lines get the scraps.
The real question is this: are the 3rd line getting opportunities to score?
*thinks*
Bennett just misses Lazar on a two-on-0 break
Bennett sets up Versteeg on the doorstep and Anderson makes a sweet save
Bennett sets up Jagr from behind the net and Anderson makes a great save
Bennett sets up Tkachuk on a breakaway and Tkachuk misses the net
Tkachuk sets up Bennett in the slot and Bennett just fans on it
Jankowski sets up Bennett on the left door step that just gets saved
Bennett misses a wide open net on the door beside Grubauer
Jankowski gets a breakaway and gets stoned by Jarry
Jankowski nearly tips a Kulak floater from the left wall
Bennett gets a hard, accurate shot as the trailer and Jarry makes a great save.
Bennett makes a ridiculously awesome hit, takes the puck away from a Penguin D, then drives the net and nearly backhand top shelfs a goal on Jarry
Bennett, Jankowski, Gaudreau set up Lazar multiple times in prime scoring areas. He probably leads this team in botched chances..
That's just the ones I remember.
A different bounce the other way on any of the above and suddenly confidence builds, suddenly lines go on hot streaks instead of cold streaks. Now maybe Lazar isn't cut out to play top 9 - when Jagr gets healthy that won't be an issue - but even Curtis Lazar will get a bounce at some point.
3rd line is getting their opportunities to score. The floodgates will open and then scoring will be rectified. Bigger question is if Mike Smith can sustain his save percentage all year. 0% shooting is unsustainable, .935 save percentage is in an awkward zone between potentially sustainable and potentially just a hot streak by an almost 36 year old with a bit of a reputation as streaky, but also a .930-ish full season on his resume.
Now the fourth line is legitimately an issue. Stajan is a good center, by needs fast wingers flanking him. Brouwer has had some scoring chances this season, but he is undoubtably a possession sinkhole that is dragging Stajan down on a whole. Versteeg has arguably been our worst forward this year who only has points because of his power play opportunity (and one opportunistic ES goal where three other guys did all the work). It's probably time to healthy scratch Versteeg to send a message and put Mangiapane or Poirier in that spot. for the time being.
Finally, I would suggest keeping more of an eye on 5v5 CF% and PK stats than offensive stats like goals and PP stats - the former are known to correlate to team success, the latter are more related to viewer enjoyment. Look no further than either cup winning L.A. Kings team.
Last edited:
DenisSamson3
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2007
- 8,538
- 53
Do you guys think Jagr will be a helpful addition to the third line? Can help get some production. Was looking at the stats and its pretty lopsided.
tmurfin
That’s the joke
- May 8, 2010
- 11,243
- 1,280
For sure imo. He is slow, but he was a threat in the offensive zone, he had multiple opportunities leading up to his injury. If he comes back on Janko-Bennett's wing, they can do the dirty work and he can find the sweet spots to get our offense flowing.
Bounces R Way
Registered User
We really need someone outside the top 6 to crack 15 goals. Was hoping that would be Bennett but I'm skeptical at this point. It's not like they're not getting chances, just about everyone in the bottom 6 could have a couple. I don't understand what Glass is doing here, would much rather Hathaway be on the roster. Versteeg and Brouwer have been 20 goal scorers before so they need to step it up and prove they're not washed up trash if they want a career past their current contract.
Stajan is hopeless. Cannot wait for him to be gone. Maybe the organization will give him a position pouring malt ice cream, he can't possibly be bad at that.
Stajan is hopeless. Cannot wait for him to be gone. Maybe the organization will give him a position pouring malt ice cream, he can't possibly be bad at that.
FlamesFan18
Frank the Tank
FlamerForLife
Mon Seanahan
Possibly something for Hayes or Krieder..?
But we don't have many trade chips so I'm not sure how we would try and acquire a scorer.
FlamesFan18
Frank the Tank
All we have to offer is Bennett or 2 of Valimaki/Andersson/Kylington/Fox
But when you already have the AHL leading scorer I don't see why they don't give him a shot first
But when you already have the AHL leading scorer I don't see why they don't give him a shot first
I don't think we can go for a Hayes or Krieder, type player because we don't have the assets. Unless Brad Trevling can pull a rabbit out of the hat, I am not sure. We have too much dead weight.
Ace Rimmer
Stoke me a clipper.
I disagree that the third line is looking good. A scoring chance a game and a lot wiffed opportunities is not looking good. It's screwing up and they screw up a lot.
I think Bennett needs to be traded for some help asap. This team is 29th in scoring. Mike Smith and Gaudreau can't carry the team forever.
I think Bennett needs to be traded for some help asap. This team is 29th in scoring. Mike Smith and Gaudreau can't carry the team forever.
It's been a concern for over two weeks now. This team has no secondary scoring, and the Flames won't make the playoffs scoring 2 goals per game. If it weren't for Smith, the Flames would be 3-10.
Go back to the 'pairings', and tweak them as needed. Bolded are the 'locks'. I have Brouwer locked as the 4th line RW, as I can't see him being scratched often or waived. I'm not a fan of Ferland on the top line RW spot, but I think that's the best fit for him, if the choice is top line or 4th line. I'd give the 3M line a bit more time to get going. Jagr could do wonders with Janks and Bennett.
Go back to the 'pairings', and tweak them as needed. Bolded are the 'locks'. I have Brouwer locked as the 4th line RW, as I can't see him being scratched often or waived. I'm not a fan of Ferland on the top line RW spot, but I think that's the best fit for him, if the choice is top line or 4th line. I'd give the 3M line a bit more time to get going. Jagr could do wonders with Janks and Bennett.
Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Jagr
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Jagr
Mobiandi
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2015
- 20,934
- 17,306
Tkachuk-Monahan-Gaudreau
Frolik-Backlund-Jagr
Bennett-Janko-Ferland
Mangi-Lazar-Hathaway/Brouwer
Hathaway is wasting away in the minors. He's not gonna take anymore major steps forward at this stage in his career. Mangi deserves a look. Waive Versteeg and Glass.
Frolik-Backlund-Jagr
Bennett-Janko-Ferland
Mangi-Lazar-Hathaway/Brouwer
Hathaway is wasting away in the minors. He's not gonna take anymore major steps forward at this stage in his career. Mangi deserves a look. Waive Versteeg and Glass.
He's hurting the team, taking up a roster spot and his value is only going to get lower? He might be a good piece in a package with a young D prospect for a top 6 winger.
Only caveat is I'd like to see them try him with Gaudreau and Monahan for at least a few games before we really give up.
Don't worry though, there has been no indication that a trade is in the works. They have not showcased him at all.
I don't think he's hurting the team. For a few games, he was taking bad penalties. That really hurt them. Since moving to the wing though, he's been much more reliable.
Even then, his value would likely be utter shit right now, and he wouldn't be worth trading.
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