Prospect Info: At 9th Overall the Detroit Red Wings Select Michael Rasmussen

[Pavels Dog]

That's just BS.

Look at the top 25 scorers in the NHL. McDavid, Giroux, Kucherov, Hall, Barzal, Gaudreau, Panarin, Kuznetsov, Pastrnak, Barkov.

All are great puckhandlers. Don't tell me it's not effective just because we don't have any prospects like that. There are more guys in the top 25 scoring with "fancy moves" than without. I think you would like those types of guys just fine if it is what was currently in our system.

I feel like you missed the point a bit. Just saying a few nice dekes aren't worth much to me in junior leagues. While a select few can translate it to the pros, most adapt and use those moves much more rarely. "Great puckhandler" is a much wider term than what I'm talking about. Like I wouldn't say Barkov, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron etc. use fancy moves too often, but they are terrific at puckhandling and puck protection.
Some think it's boring when Rasmussen uses his size and reach to protect the puck and score goals or make plays, I see a style of play that he won't need to adapt much for the NHL game. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want prospects like McDavid.

 

[Frk It]

I feel like you missed the point a bit. Just saying a few nice dekes aren't worth much to me in junior leagues. While a select few can translate it to the pros, most adapt and use those moves much more rarely. "Great puckhandler" is a much wider term than what I'm talking about. Like I wouldn't say Barkov, Zetterberg, Kopitar, Toews, Bergeron etc. use fancy moves too often, but they are terrific at puckhandling and puck protection.
Some think it's boring when Rasmussen uses his size and reach to protect the puck and score goals or make plays, I see a style of play that he won't need to adapt much for the NHL game. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want prospects like McDavid.

That's fair. Hard to say that Rasmussen won't complement pretty much ANY type of player well moving forward. When I look at it from that perspective, and that we have some more high picks coming our way, it makes me feel more OK about everything.

 

[BinCookin]

That's fair. Hard to say that Rasmussen won't complement pretty much ANY type of player well moving forward. When I look at it from that perspective, and that we have some more high picks coming our way, it makes me feel more OK about everything.

Of all the prospects we have.. it is just the beginning.

We need 3-4 years of top 10 picks, and trade 3-4 players for additional first rounders to create a seriously strong pool of young players

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Goals are way harder to come by so I doubt there has been many at all. That doesnt mean hes less effective because he doesnt set his wingers up is my point, scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in the NHL. I know Franzen did it quite a bit in Detroit.

Theres more than one way to skin a cat is my point. Making BS arguments to say that a centres job is to set up his wingers is stupid, so is saying that 3 or 4 skills are the most important in the league. The most important thing to make a player effective in the NHL is to make sure more goals end up in the other teams net compared to how many end up in yours. Theres plenty of ways to make that happen though

Sorry but you're the one trying to redefine a position that' well been established.

It' like the goofs who thought quarterbacks who can run the ball were as valuable as the traditional, they lied.

Centres distribute the puck and control the flow of the game in all three zones

Yes they can and do score but that's not what defines the qualities of a top line nhl centremen by and large

Never has and never will

I am not devaluing goal scoring, I am putting a premium on creating offence for others

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

This season:
3 of the top 20 scoring centers put up more goals than assists.

6 in the top 50 scoring centers

1 in the top 50 was even

43 in the top 50 had more assists than goals

Thank ou

Point made

 

[SirloinUB]

What sort of puck handler is he? Not trying to be an ass and not necessarily only asking you, Sirloin; I have just seen very little of him in game situations - essentially my viewing was limited to last pre-season. So many people have opinions on what his game is now and what his game will be in the NHL, so I'd really love to know more about the way he plays other than his talent as a net-front guy. Anyone who gets to watch him on a more regular basis would be great to hear from, I'd love to hear more about his game other than what is generally talked about here. Would also love to know how much his injuries affected him and impacted his numbers this season - I'm assuming he's fully recovered now, yes?

From watching him the three things I was able to say with any degree of certainty were:
- He plays at the top of the crease very well, great at tipping pucks.
- He skates quite well for a big man
- He is very good at shielding the puck and keeping it away from defenders in the offensive zone; only Z seemed better at it during the games I saw.

This is partially a response to @Frk It as well so bare with me here...but being a good handler isn’t something that’s black and white. It can be a plus skill without an individual playing like Kane, Gaudreau or McDavid.

I’ve said it before but I think Ras hands are on par (or close to par) with anyone from the 2017 draft. But any smart player knows how to take advantage of their best attributes. For McDavid that’s skating through the other team. For Ras its body position and puck protection. Why would he stick handle back and forth like a maniac when he can just shield the puck where no one else can touch it and drive the net? That doesn’t mean he isn’t a strong puck handler, but rather he leverages his skill set in a different way. Watch Ras coral bouncing pucks, or his ability to win puck battles, pick the puck off the wall, soft hands at the net front etc. and you can’t tell me puck handling isn’t a plus attribute.

He has very good hands but doesn’t over complicate his play style (although I have seen a few dangles mixed in). His simple yet skilled style he plays with is why I think he will look better as he moves up the ranks.

I like that you brought up Z; Imagine his puck protection if he was 6" and 25 lbs bigger. Ras is an underrated passer as well so I really like idea of pairing the two of them next season. Where they would differ though is vision.

In regards to skating, his first few strides are excellent. He has a lot of power to get up to speed quicker than most other guys. Personally, I think he is a good skater and we can remove the "for a big guy" disclaimer.

 

[newfy]

Sorry but you're the one trying to redefine a position that' well been established.

It' like the goofs who thought quarterbacks who can run the ball were as valuable as the traditional, they lied.

Centres distribute the puck and control the flow of the game in all three zones

Yes they can and do score but that's not what defines the qualities of a top line nhl centremen by and large

Never has and never will

I am not devaluing goal scoring, I am putting a premium on creating offence for others

Once again, why do people have to act like its all or nothing? A center who might not pass as well as the other but scores more goals is gonna still create as many goals. I'm not trying to redefine anything. Its been established in hockey that scoring goals is the toughest thing to do, the reason there arent many centers who score a tonne of goals is because its a lot harder to do from that position and still handle the defensive requirements.

A centerman needs to create offense for his team. Whether he does that by getting a nice secondary assist or putting the puck in net himself doesnt change the score at the end of the game. I dont get your quarterback analogy at all, a mobile quarterback that can still pass is worth more than a traditional QB, the issue is they dont stay healthy. Last I checked, scoring goals as a center in hockey doesnt make you get injured more. This NHL season alone there are quite a few centers who are pretty evenly split between goal scoring and assists or score more goals. Rakell, Karlsson, Matthews, Staal, Bergeron, Monahan, Seguin, Point and Duchene are all at the very least comparable to anything Detroit has, most would be the best player on Detroit by a fair margin. All of those guys play a solid two way games as well. All of those guys can still pass the puck, they just happen to finish a lot more than most other centers because they have a knack for scoring goals, the hardest thing to do in the sport

Would you rather have Auston Matthews, Kyle Turris or Paul Statsny?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Once again, why do people have to act like its all or nothing? A center who might not pass as well as the other but scores more goals is gonna still create as many goals. I'm not trying to redefine anything. Its been established in hockey that scoring goals is the toughest thing to do, the reason there arent many centers who score a tonne of goals is because its a lot harder to do from that position and still handle the defensive requirements.

A centerman needs to create offense for his team. Whether he does that by getting a nice secondary assist or putting the puck in net himself doesnt change the score at the end of the game. I dont get your quarterback analogy at all, a mobile quarterback that can still pass is worth more than a traditional QB, the issue is they dont stay healthy. Last I checked, scoring goals as a center in hockey doesnt make you get injured more. This NHL season alone there are quite a few centers who are pretty evenly split between goal scoring and assists or score more goals. Rakell, Karlsson, Matthews, Staal, Bergeron, Monahan, Seguin, Point and Duchene are all at the very least comparable to anything Detroit has, most would be the best player on Detroit by a fair margin. All of those guys play a solid two way games as well. All of those guys can still pass the puck, they just happen to finish a lot more than most other centers because they have a knack for scoring goals, the hardest thing to do in the sport

Would you rather have Auston Matthews, Kyle Turris or Paul Statsny?

I do not believe a top line centre in tbe NHL will be able to make a career out of being a finisher moreso than puck distrubuter.

I said for Ras to be anything more than a franzenesque type player he will need to change his game.

I said a 55pt top ten pick is not a ceiling we should champion

I said Mathews will see his goal total drop in relation to his assist totals (someone brought up career best 29 assists) within short order.

To be a top line centre you need to drive and create offence and distribute the puck. This is how you control the game, it' what the position does.

Of course scoring is important but I believe it' secondary to playmaking from the midle if the ice

That's all

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

People are saying Rasmussen has a number of useful skills, and that's right. He's huge, and nobody can take the puck away from him when he protects it. He's got a good wrist shot. He's a good passer, too.

But in my viewings, he really didn't do any of that stuff. That was my biggest complaint. He looked like he didn't want to be an offensive difference maker. Despite having both the speed and the ability to protect the puck, Rasmussen never kept the puck. He never drove the net. He never drove to a position to shoot. He just... gave up the puck and went to the net to screen. Like... every single time.

That's what makes those highlights disappointing. Yeah, he's scoring a lot. That's nice. But he's still doing the same stuff over and over. I'd be much more confident in how he translates to the NHL if he took advantage of everything he can do. How can we expect him to score with his shot in the NHL if he doesn't really do that in junior? How can we expect him to stickhandle through the middle of the ice like a Kopitar if that's just not something he does in junior?

Granted, he's passing now, which is nice. But he could do a lot more.

 

[Red Stanley]

I do not believe a top line centre in tbe NHL will be able to make a career out of being a finisher moreso than puck distrubuter.

I said for Ras to be anything more than a franzenesque type player he will need to change his game.

I said a 55pt top ten pick is not a ceiling we should champion

I said Mathews will see his goal total drop in relation to his assist totals (someone brought up career best 29 assists) within short order.

To be a top line centre you need to drive and create offence and distribute the puck. This is how you control the game, it' what the position does.

Of course scoring is important but I believe it' secondary to playmaking from the midle if the ice

That's all

I think Larkin will be above him on the center depth chart, so this might end up being a moot point as far as Rasmussen is concerned. If we land another excellent center in the near future, he might even end up on the wing and that's fine. In any event, he's not exactly a typical prospect and I'm not too worried about his game translating to the NHL.

 

[Winger98]

Your centers have to be able to move the puck, but they can't be one dimensional at it such as guys like Adam Oates or Craig Janney or Sedin.

 

[Red Stanley]

People are saying Rasmussen has a number of useful skills, and that's right. He's huge, and nobody can take the puck away from him when he protects it. He's got a good wrist shot. He's a good passer, too.

But in my viewings, he really didn't do any of that stuff. That was my biggest complaint. He looked like he didn't want to be an offensive difference maker. Despite having both the speed and the ability to protect the puck, Rasmussen never kept the puck. He never drove the net. He never drove to a position to shoot. He just... gave up the puck and went to the net to screen. Like... every single time.

That's what makes those highlights disappointing. Yeah, he's scoring a lot. That's nice. But he's still doing the same stuff over and over. I'd be much more confident in how he translates to the NHL if he took advantage of everything he can do. How can we expect him to score with his shot in the NHL if he doesn't really do that in junior? How can we expect him to stickhandle through the middle of the ice like a Kopitar if that's just not something he does in junior?

Granted, he's passing now, which is nice. But he could do a lot more.

Here's a small sample of the types of goals he scores as well as some playmaking sprinkled in. In the preseason against Chicago he also scored a nice goal by driving the net hard.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Here's a small sample of the types of goals he scores as well as some playmaking sprinkled in. In the preseason against Chicago he also scored a nice goal by driving the net hard.

That's nice that he did that stuff at some point, but I'm talking about shift in, shift out. I haven't seen him consistently be assertive like that. He looked like Sheahan, where he somehow had it in his head that it isn't his role to be aggressive offensively. Maybe that's coaching. Then again, Blashill is the guy who made Sheahan that way in the first place.

But sort of as a greater point, if you have the ability to make plays like that, why would you want to screen all the time? That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Red Stanley]

That's nice that he did that stuff at some point, but I'm talking about shift in, shift out. I haven't seen him consistently be assertive like that. He looked like Sheahan, where he somehow had it in his head that it isn't his role to be aggressive offensively. Maybe that's coaching. Then again, Blashill is the guy who made Sheahan that way in the first place.

Could be. Still, he's capable in both theory and practice. If his drive is really as strong as people say, bad coaching won't hamstring his development.

 

[Ezekial]

Maybe he listens to his coaches because winning is greater to him than his individual portfolio.

I mean the kid makes plays, he had 2 dimes in the highlights of last game(one was the throwback behind the line to the open ice for Geekie's goal, the other was saved on a redirect) Game 1 had the steal and blind pass to the open ice for Geekie. I mean this playoffs alone he's been making all sorts of postive plays for Geekie to finish.

I think Geekie thinks he's a solid playmaker.

 

[TCNorthstars]

That's nice that he did that stuff at some point, but I'm talking about shift in, shift out. I haven't seen him consistently be assertive like that. He looked like Sheahan, where he somehow had it in his head that it isn't his role to be aggressive offensively. Maybe that's coaching. Then again, Blashill is the guy who made Sheahan that way in the first place.

But sort of as a greater point, if you have the ability to make plays like that, why would you want to screen all the time? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe the coach wants him to play that way?

 

[Hen Kolland]

This season:
3 of the top 20 scoring centers put up more goals than assists.

6 in the top 50 scoring centers

1 in the top 50 was even

43 in the top 50 had more assists than goals

I love when people leave things out of context...allow me to provide some. This season:

1 of the top 20 scorers put up more goals than assists.

5 in the top 50 scorers (BTW, 3 of them are listed as C on NHL.com, go figure)

1 in the top 50 was even

44 in the the top 50 scorers, regardless of position, had more assists than goals.

It's almost as if assist numbers are inflated due to secondary assists and that supports your false narrative...good try though.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I love when people leave things out of context...allow me to provide some. This season:

1 of the top 20 scorers put up more goals than assists.

5 in the top 50 scorers (BTW, 3 of them are listed as C on NHL.com, go figure)

1 in the top 50 was even

44 in the the top 50 scorers, regardless of position, had more assists than goals.

It's almost as if assist numbers are inflated due to secondary assists and that supports your false narrative...good try though.

False narrative?

What do you mean?

 

[izlez]

But sort of as a greater point, if you have the ability to make plays like that, why would you want to screen all the time? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Because no one in the hockey world prioritizes flashy stick-handling highlights the way that you do and screening goalies/deflecting pucks is an effective (the most effective?) way to score goals.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Because no one in the hockey world prioritizes flashy stick-handling highlights the way that you do and screening goalies/deflecting pucks is an effective (the most effective?) way to score goals.

Well, it's at least me and Corey Pronman. There are dozens of us! Dozens!

 

[Hen Kolland]

False narrative?

What do you mean?

The false narrative that it is desired or necessary for centers to be playmakers first, goal scorers second. The stats used were completely misleading that somehow it was proof that my previous sentence was true and applicable specifically to centers. Pretty much every high end player has more assists than goals...that's how the sport works.

To me the classification of playmaker and sniper should by synonymous by this point, especially if we are categorizing skill sets to certain positions; I don't care whether you are a pass first player or a shoot first player as long as you are generating offense in a scoring line role. Go out make plays, whether it's a goal or an assist...I'll take it either way. What's more valuable, a player with 50 goals and 30 assists or a player with 20 goals and 60 assists? Either way, sounds like the player is playing a role in 80 goals to me. In my opinion the criteria for center should be defensively responsible and offensively capable; that's it. If Rasmussen becomes a guy who hits both of those things, he's a top 9 center...how well he does it determines how high he climbs.

 

[TCNorthstars]

I love when people leave things out of context...allow me to provide some. This season:

1 of the top 20 scorers put up more goals than assists.

5 in the top 50 scorers (BTW, 3 of them are listed as C on NHL.com, go figure)

1 in the top 50 was even

44 in the the top 50 scorers, regardless of position, had more assists than goals.

It's almost as if assist numbers are inflated due to secondary assists and that supports your false narrative...good try though.

Nothing was left out of context. The poster I was responding to was openly wondering how many CENTERS had more goals than assists. So I provided that information. Good try though.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Nothing was left out of context. The poster I was responding to was openly wondering how many CENTERS had more goals than assists. So I provided that information. Good try though.

Yeah, that was the question, and you used it as an opportunity to pretend that this expectation of centers is real. You're ready to argue your point, so please, respond to my point about how the actual stats tell us that your argument is full of shit and based on your opinion and nothing else.

 

[Ezekial]

Yeah, that was the question, and you used it as an opportunity to pretend that this expectation of centers is real. You're ready to argue your point, so please, respond to my point about how the actual stats tell us that your argument is full of **** and based on your opinion and nothing else.

Zetterberg 4Captain asked the question and was the person who said "point made"

All tcn did was post the stat.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Yeah, that was the question, and you used it as an opportunity to pretend that this expectation of centers is real. You're ready to argue your point, so please, respond to my point about how the actual stats tell us that your argument is full of **** and based on your opinion and nothing else.

That is a pretty far-fetched assumption my friend. It is you that is looking for the argument. I’ve made no such remarks or opinions on the matter all I did was provide a statistic that was factual.