As more NHL'ers go overseas...

[Bookman]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

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[CREW99AW]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

roughly 200 out of 700 players are overseas.A few are playing for free(Modo has 4/5 nhlers playing for free),other players are making a fraction of what they're used to making.the owners have set aside millions for this cba fight.

I expect the mid to lower salaried players to break ranks after several months.and we've seen a few players indicate they'd accept a cap.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I expect the mid to lower salaried players to break ranks after several months.and we've seen a few players indicate they'd accept a cap.

Why would you expect that, when it's always been the owners to fold and not the players ??

 

[hardcore_fan]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

This assumes that hockey is the only income that the owners have, which is wrong.These guys did have to earn enough to buy a franchise in the first place, so I doubt they're sitting around eating ramen noodles right now.Especially those teams owned by corporations as opposed to an individual or ownership group.

 

[David A. Rainer]

Just as some players are making money by going overseas (and probably paying a high premium to insure their current NHL contract, for those that have a high enough contract to make insuring it worth while), some owners are now leasing their arenas and making quick cash that way. It is leverage in the players favor, but likely only a marginal amount.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Just as some players are making money by going overseas (and probably paying a high premium to insure their current NHL contract, for those that have a high enough contract to make insuring it worth while), some owners are now leasing their arenas and making quick cash that way. It is leverage in the players favor, but likely only a marginal amount.

There was such quick notice 95% of the dates are going unused. MOnths are generally needed to fill dates.

 

[mr gib]

There was such quick notice 95% of the dates are going unused. MOnths are generally needed to fill dates.

- that fits with bettman's 30 day strategy -

 

[David A. Rainer]

There was such quick notice 95% of the dates are going unused. MOnths are generally needed to fill dates.

For now. But that makes sense because you cannot start scheduling until you know for sure there will not be a season. So the first few months are going to be slow. But as time goes by, more and more events get scheduled. It's not like as soon as the season gets cancelled, everyone looking for a venue suddenly starts calling and all the spots get filled up immediately. As each month goes by, maybe three or four events gets planned. Then next month maybe six or eight, and so on.

But yes, it'll be slow to start but eventually things will begin to fill up, to some extent.

 

[Go Flames Go*]

No leverage at all, the cap is coming gaurnteed, there is not stopping it. Either the NHLPA can be reasonable accept the hard cap, or loose all there jobs. Its better if Goodenow tells thoose greedy players to take option 1.

I am real excited to see what players Sutter signs to replace these overpaid greedy ones we have now.

 

[chriss_co]

Yes, in the history of sports the owners have been the first to crack. But that was because those leagues had some sort of profit margin going into negotiations. There has been no league as damaged financially as the NHL going into a lockout/strike.

I may not believe everything the owners publicize but I do believe that overall the 30 teams are together losing less money with a lockout than with an actual season.

This will be the first time in sport's history that players crack.

However, i'll admit that i dont think it will be a hard salary cap. Instead it will be a luxory tax with such huge penalties it is more like a salary cap. And the players may claim victory for their side because of this.

 

[Bicycle Repairman]

I am real excited to see what players Sutter signs to replace these overpaid greedy ones we have now.

He won't be signing a single one. Unless he becomes GM of a Calgary AHL entry.

No NHLPA? No CBA? No Salary Cap to negotiate. No Protected Lists. No Entry Draft. The Coalition of NHL owners will fold like a cheap tent, as the free agent market will be so enticing the big spenders will break ranks to ensure their own survival. The Flames will be left in the dust.

 

[SuperUnknown]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

Most of the players going overseas make "peanuts". Many NHLers are playing overseas for free, with salaries that barely pay the heavy insurance costs for them to play elsewhere. They're playing overseas because they don't want to be inactive for a year.

 

[Benji Frank]

I recall an article about Doug gilmour during the 94 lockout... He'd just signed a 3 mill per deal with the Leafs & to play Europe, insurance on the deal cost him 20,000 per month. The deal he signed in europe paid $14,000.00 per month!!! The players aren't going to Europe to put food on the table!!! Although, there's an article on TSN saying Kasparitus is prepared to play overseas without insurance 'cuz the policies he's been offerred are too expensive.

If I was an owner, I'd run payroll today as planned and then put a big huge VOID stamp on each cheque & "inadvertantly" mail it to the players current address!! Then early next week, when Joe Thornton, Dany Heatley, Sheldon Souray, etc are bragging to their significant other about the $2,700 they just got from their Swiss boss, the wife can show them the voided cheque they would have had back in North America had they put something together with the owners before training camp..... there ain't no leverage there!!! In fact, right now, I'd venture to guess the leverage is in the woners hands as there's no way they'd have recovered todays payroll from exhibition games, etc. The owners would probably be quite happy to cancel the first 20 or so games of the season pro-rate the contracts get a full playoffs in and enter 05/06 with a cap!!!

 

[djhn579]

Actually, I believe it could give the owners more leverage once this gets into the courts. The players are clearly willing to play for less money and the going rate for the top hockey players everywhere except the US is much lower. I'm sure a good lawyer could make a good case that the players are being extremely unreasonable by refusing to link payroll to salaries.

 

[CREW99AW]

Why would you expect that, when it's always been the owners to fold and not the players ??

Press reports that each of the 30 teams,has a war chest of $10m Bettman made them save up over the last several yrs.
Add in that Forbes reports several owners would have lost millions by playing this season,while several other teams would have barely broken even and I expect the owners to be a much more determined group this time around.

The reason I expect the mid-lower salaried players to cave first,is because they haven't had the big paydays to save up.
If you're a guy like Kolnik,making a few hundred thousand a yr,with a young child and probably a house payment,how many months can you go making a fraction of that nhl salary?

If you're a 30-something yr old 3rd/4th liner or a 30-something yr old #4-#7 d-man,can you afford to sit out 1-2 yrs?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Press reports that each of the 30 teams,has a war chest of $10m Bettman made them save up over the last several yrs.
Add in that Forbes reports several owners would have lost millions by playing this season,while several other teams would have barely broken even and I expect the owners to be a much more determined group this time around.

The reason I expect the mid-lower salaried players to cave first,is because they haven't had the big paydays to save up.
If you're a guy like Kolnik,making a few hundred thousand a yr,with a young child and probably a house payment,how many months can you go making a fraction of that nhl salary?

If you're a 30-something yr old 3rd/4th liner or a 30-something yr old #4-#7 d-man,can you afford to sit out 1-2 yrs?

And if you're an owner in Tampa or Nashville trying to build a fan base, how long can you afford to sit out ??

If you're an owner in Philly or Detroit, and every night you sit out it costs you more and more money how long are you going to want to sit out to help Jacobs and Wirtz ???

 

[SuperUnknown]

And if you're an owner in Tampa or Nashville trying to build a fan base, how long can you afford to sit out ??

If you're an owner in Philly or Detroit, and every night you sit out it costs you more and more money how long are you going to want to sit out to help Jacobs and Wirtz ???

On the other hand, if the fan base is affected, the player salaries will be affected as well, with or without a cap.

 

[Buffaloed]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

It gives the players leverage in a short labor stoppage, but in a long one as this is expected to be, it's devisive to the NHLPA. There's going to be resentment from the lower tier members of the NHLPA who make up the majority of the union, as many of them aren't being invited to play in Europe, and those that go will only make a fraction of their NHL salary. A guy that makes $600K as a 3rd pair dman isn't going to be very receptive to leaving his family to make $40-60K in Europe while the elite players are bringing in over $1 million there. He's going to ask himself what he's sitting out for if he can easily stay home and make $300-400K by accepting the NHL's proposal.

 

[SuperUnknown]

It gives the players leverage in a short labor stoppage, but in a long one as this is expected to be, it's devisive to the NHLPA. There's going to be resentment from the lower tier members of the NHLPA who make up the majority of the union, as many of them aren't being invited to play in Europe, and those that go will only make a fraction of their NHL salary. A guy that makes $600K as a 3rd pair dman isn't going to be very receptive to leaving his family to make $40-60K in Europe while the elite players are bringing in over $1 million there. He's going to ask himself what he's sitting out for if he can easily stay home and make $300-400K by accepting the NHL's proposal.

Besides, as I've said before in this thread, the cost of insurance for their NHL contract is close to what they earn in Europe anyway.

 

[BLONG7]

Players going to Europe shows that there is really no solidarity amongst the union members or that the union or PA(whatever) really cares about the low to middle earners in their profession...There will be alot of unrest by Christmas!!!

 

[chriss_co]

And if you're an owner in Tampa or Nashville trying to build a fan base, how long can you afford to sit out ??

If you're an owner in Philly or Detroit, and every night you sit out it costs you more and more money how long are you going to want to sit out to help Jacobs and Wirtz ???

How long? As long as it takes. Especially when they turn on the TV and see NFL football and all the money those owners are racking up.

 

[me2]

does this give them more leverage in the "negotiations" with owners? The owners have nothing right now, while players are making something, not the millions they're used to, but something nonetheless. I see an advantage here.

If you were a chef making $100/hour, you've got a wife, kids, a mortgage, a new car to pay for. Your boss tells you the restaurant is losing money and he's going to cut your pay to $75 and you said "no way" and get lockout out, then ended up at McDonalds for $5/hour: $75/h or $5/h flipping Big Macs? How much leverage does that create? Next to none, your boss knows $5/h isn't going to keep you there for long. Maybe if you were getting $40/h or $50/h you'd have leverage.

The amount of money they get in Europe isn't going to be sufficient to keep them happy for long, they know it and the owners know it. Playing in Europe is a distraction, its a working holiday, not a serious alternative (its the $5/h McDonalds job). Its nice for the foreign players like Naslund, Forsberg, etc to get to play at in their home countries, but that warm fuzzy feeling is about all. What if Thornton and Nash blow a knee, get a serious concussion or injure their backs? At best they bring home 20% of what they would make, at worst they get injured and waste a year or two of their careers and never be as good again.

 

[mr gib]

If you were a chef making $100/hour, you've got a wife, kids, a mortgage, a new car to pay for. Your boss tells you the restaurant is losing money and he's going to cut your pay to $75 and you said "no way" and get lockout out, then ended up at McDonalds for $5/hour: $75/h or $5/h flipping Big Macs? How much leverage does that create? Next to none, your boss knows $5/h isn't going to keep you there for long. Maybe if you were getting $40/h or $50/h you'd have leverage.

The amount of money they get in Europe isn't going to be sufficient to keep them happy for long, they know it and the owners know it. Playing in Europe is a distraction, its a working holiday, not a serious alternative (its the $5/h McDonalds job). Its nice for the foreign players like Naslund, Forsberg, etc to get to play at in their home countries, but that warm fuzzy feeling is about all. What if Thornton and Nash blow a knee, get a serious concussion or injure their backs? At best they bring home 20% of what they would make, at worst they get injured and waste a year or two of their careers and never be as good again.

first of all - naslund is not playing - forsberg is playing to - give something back - the tv coverage of his return to modo was fabulous - as for thornton and nash - they have insurance if they get injured -