Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
OT: Around the NHL: We Talkin' 'Bout Coaching?
- Thread starter Honour Over Glory
- Start date
- Status
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
I think he's a good coach, but not to the extent where people think he's the best in the league. He's inherited good teams with the Ducks and then the Wings (basically getting guys in their prime to work with) and he's not that well liked by a lot of his ex Wings players from what I've read and heard. Also after 2009, he could barely get out of the 1st or 2nd round, with the Leafs, he's again inherited some incredibly talented players.
He's the coach version of average to decent coach that gets the job done but give him a better team and he's more than enough.
Gurglesons
Registered User
In what world were the 2003 Ducks not a creation of Babcock in his first year of coaching?
Also, he has a knack for getting a lot out of fringe defensemen. That is all I implied, I don't think he is some godsend coach.
Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
Registered User
I'm sorry but when you've been out-coached by Dan Bylsma, you're not that great. He's the Toews of coaches, except Toews has won more. People act like he's Scotty Bowman or something. I mean, how much does he make a year?
Plus Babcock's views towards concussions is some stone age level ****.
Plus Babcock's views towards concussions is some stone age level ****.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I mean, I'm not trying to defend Bylsma, but I don't know if you can say that we "out-coached" the Red Wings that year. More so, their injuries and back to back cup runs added up for their older bodies. Also, Jordan Staal and Brad Stuart happened.
Also, I think Brad Stuart in '08 and '09 is a perfect example of Babcock propping a fringe d-man up into a top four defenseman.
BHD
Vejmelka for Vezina
ColePens
RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
I don't know if i would say he got outcoached in 2009. Do you really believe that? The 2009 team was just the right time of catching fire. Getting rid of a defensive coach and still having his responsibility on the ice mixed with DB opening things up and being a player's coach. If anything it was just the right everything at the right time coming together. I don't think anything was going to stop that team and it still took Game 7 for the Pens even though Datsyuk wasn't even all that healthy.
I think Babs is a tremendous coach because he was years ahead of the possession game. Where Babcock goes wrong is his arrogance. Now he needs to be the GM and the coach. He just can't be a great coach. And it really hasn't suited him well. He might be a great coach but he's not a great GM and shouldn't control the players aspect of it. I firmly believe the coach/GM have to be on the same page.
Nonetheless, I still think Babcock is one of the best in the league.
Tender Rip
Wears long pants
And you presumably base this on us winning in 09? What BS.
In no shape or form did Bylsma outcoach Babcock.
And really, there is discussion on this forum as to whether Babcock is great? Bizarre. He obviously is. Beyond even the remotest doubt.
BHD
Vejmelka for Vezina
It's shortsighted to base a coach off of one series. Mind you, it was the most important series of a coach's career - but it was one series.
The '03 Ducks, the '08 Red Wings, Team Canada, now the Leafs. Babcock's body of work towers over what Bylsma did after the Cup.
The '03 Ducks, the '08 Red Wings, Team Canada, now the Leafs. Babcock's body of work towers over what Bylsma did after the Cup.
Last edited:
Gurglesons
Registered User
Don'tcry4mejanhrdina
Registered User
Babcock schooled Therrien the year before. He didn't have an answer in '09 even though the Pens were weaker on paper and the wings added Hossa to an already great team.
Babcock is a good coach. Certainly better than Bylsma. But he blew a great opportunity in '09. The Pens were lucky to win that year. As for the injuries and back to back bull...the Pens managed it this year and I'd say they were more banged up than the Wings were.
Anaheim in 2003 was impressive but hardly anything out of the ordinary. We've seen similar runs before by trapping teams, '96 Panthers, last year's Sens, etc... plus Giguere stood on his head.
Let me ask everyone this: when did Babcock win a cup or a tournament when his team was an underdog? That Detroit team was a powerhouse and team Canada? Please....he's done well and has won when he was supposed to (except in '09) but he's hardly the greatest coach ever like the media here in Canada act like he is. They put socks with his face on them in cases of beer for crying out loud. Babsocks....
When the Leafs hired him they acted like he was Lebron James choosing where to go next.
Babcock is a good coach. Certainly better than Bylsma. But he blew a great opportunity in '09. The Pens were lucky to win that year. As for the injuries and back to back bull...the Pens managed it this year and I'd say they were more banged up than the Wings were.
Anaheim in 2003 was impressive but hardly anything out of the ordinary. We've seen similar runs before by trapping teams, '96 Panthers, last year's Sens, etc... plus Giguere stood on his head.
Let me ask everyone this: when did Babcock win a cup or a tournament when his team was an underdog? That Detroit team was a powerhouse and team Canada? Please....he's done well and has won when he was supposed to (except in '09) but he's hardly the greatest coach ever like the media here in Canada act like he is. They put socks with his face on them in cases of beer for crying out loud. Babsocks....
When the Leafs hired him they acted like he was Lebron James choosing where to go next.
Dying Alive
Phil = 2x Champ
I think he's a good coach, probably in the top tier of coaches, but he's overrated by virtue of people holding him up as being in a class of his own. You could have put a chimp in a suit in charge of those Team Canadas that won gold and they still would have won.
All I really need to know is that I wouldn't trade Sullivan for him. Beyond that, I don't really care how he's viewed.
All I really need to know is that I wouldn't trade Sullivan for him. Beyond that, I don't really care how he's viewed.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
If moronic coaches have taught me anything it's that they could have sunk those teams. Look at what team USA did under Bylsma and Torts.
Management played as much if not more of a role of Team USA falling flat on its face the last two times.
Not to absolve Torts and Bylsma though.
WayneSid9987
Registered User
- Nov 24, 2009
- 30,053
- 5,676
Dying Alive
Phil = 2x Champ
Yeah, I put a lot of that on Lombardi. Team USA was nowhere near as good to begin with as Team Canada either. If anyone had managed to sink those teams it would have been a truly monumental accomplishment. Even a mildly competent coach (including Bylsma & Torts) could have gotten them a gold medal. IMO, of course, as someone who has never coached a hockey game in my life.
Like I said, I think Babcock is a good coach. I'm just not sure leading Canada to two gold medals is anything to hang your hat on when assessing that. Also, fair or not, I feel like if he's this virtuoso he should have more than one Cup in 15 years as a head coach. Especially considering how much of his career he spent in Detroit.
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
The GM of Team Canada is what made that team good, Babs just put together lines that worked for those players from the teams they were on. Also, that much talent, durr...
Still don't like the guy as a head coach, his stance on concussions, etc. I would love it if he just had 1st round exits his entire Leafs career no matter how good the Leafs became, just as a screw you.
Still don't like the guy as a head coach, his stance on concussions, etc. I would love it if he just had 1st round exits his entire Leafs career no matter how good the Leafs became, just as a screw you.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Management is huge but those teams failed miserably versus expectations and the 2014 team was pretty damn well built. The World Cup team was stupidly put together but still managed to underachieve. Winning gold with those teams doesn't make Babcock a god but they dominated in 2014 and he's at the very least not going to sink the ship. There's no such thing as a team that can't be ruined by an idiot coaching it.
Allie Kitsune
...and the Brawla Brawla Sewitt
Honour Over Glory
Fire Sully
- Jan 30, 2012
- 77,316
- 42,447
https://www.thestar.com/sports/leaf...cks-take-on-concussions-baffling-feschuk.html
He then tried to back track it by saying he was joking, but he wasn't. Look at the Detroit Red Wings and their history of concussions with guys like Franzen and how often he was allowed back, it tells the story of how that was run. It also explains why Commodore despises him and it seems like a lot of other veterans do as well. He was also the reason the Wings were Vet heavy when they tried to push more youth, now obviously his tune has changed in Toronto, but that was never the case in Detroit and people blame the Wings management for that instead which isn't true at all.
A concussed player will always say he wants to play, unless he's so messed up he says no, in which case, how much ridicule would he get from his coach for saying that? Seems like Babs is that type.
IF you go back on his history...remember Kariya coming back when he shouldn't have? Franzen countless times, etc.
Oh but there's more...
https://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2016/2...ck-concussions-nhl-dennis-wideman-maple-leafs
Basically, his staff has to over rule him so he doesn't send out a guy he feels should play even if he's concussed because that's how much he wants to win. They try to spin it as oh he's just trying to win, it's ok, Billy with his head trauma that was played right after was just a guy doing what he thought was best so he could win, ah shucks.
- Status
