Around the NHL 2017-2018 Offseason Edition

[Winger98]

I would argue that right now is the time for Chicago to begin a focused yet metered approach to rebuilding. No scorched Earth or fire sales, but reshuffle a piece or two at a time, to deal players that still have some value if possible, and not wait until the bottom has completely fallen out.

The Hawks MIGHT have one decent run left - ironically, like Detroit had until they lost to Chicago in 7 games - but, for all intents and purposes, their shot at another Cup is over, so start the transition to the next window of contention.

What would a metered approach look like though? Is it dealing Saad/Anisimov? Is it just keeping everyone, continuing to be what they are, and hope to get some more high picks?

The guys they'd probably like to deal (at this point, Toews and Seabrook are probably up there) I don't think are really movable. And they don't have a lot to move outside of them. There best bet might be just riding it out and seeing what happens.

 

[Redder Winger]

Look at the young guys who could/should have been coming up behind those wings, though. After 11/12 they should have kept Hudler, promoted Nyquist/Tatar from the start, and never ventured into assembling that whole Bert/Sammy/Tootoo triumvirate of horror. I don't see the same youth or reasonably priced young(er) vets coming up in Chicago.

The Wings would have still fallen off at some point, but there was a path there that could have avoided some cap/contract issues and kept them a better club for a little while longer, imo. Looking at chicago, I'm not sure what they can do right now. Other than draft Dahlin apparently.

In Detroit, we also had Hudler and Flip at 27, and we let them go (mistake - same mistake we're going to make with Nyquist and or Tatar while we keep the overpriced modern versions of Draper and Maltby around).

Chicago has some youth.
Nick Scmaltz - 40 points in 55 games at 21.
Alex Debrincat - 39 points in 58 games at 20.
Hinostroza - 18 points in 38 games at 23.
Hartman - 24 points in 24 games at the age of 22
Duclair - 5 points in 14 games
And Saad is only 24.

On defense, they have trouble
Forsling hasn't taken the next step. They just trade Pokka.
I think the Murphy deal eventually works out in their favor, but in the next 3 years, which is Chicago's window?

What Chicago needs is for Toews/Saad and Keith to regain form.
They also need Seabrook to improve.

THe other obvious thing is goaltending.
Crawford at 2.27 and .929
vs
Glass at 3.31 and .898
and
Forsberg at 2.95 and .908

Bowman made a mistake to believe he could squeak into the playoffs with minor league goaltending.

Lastly, Chicago needs two other things based on what I've seen.
1) A quality defensive 3/4 center
2) A quality veteran defenseman.

It's a lot of needs.

But if they take care of a couple of them, there's no good reason why Chicago can't become a contender for 3-4 more years.

 

[Run the Jewels]

The Seabrook contract is absolutely awful. That's a Kenny special right there. Losing Crawford has hurt them. Moving Hjalmarsson didn't help and their defense hasn't recovered. Oduja helped bolster the defense but that's no longer the case. Another thing to keep in mind is guys like Toews and Kane have a lot of mileage, where Dats and Z weren't in the NHL as 18-19 year olds.

 

[Redder Winger]

What would a metered approach look like though? Is it dealing Saad/Anisimov? Is it just keeping everyone, continuing to be what they are, and hope to get some more high picks?

The guys they'd probably like to deal (at this point, Toews and Seabrook are probably up there) I don't think are really movable. And they don't have a lot to move outside of them. There best bet might be just riding it out and seeing what happens.

If I'm Bowman, there's not a lot of room for moves at this point.
Like Holland, hes terrible with NMCs and NTCs
(Kane, Toews, Aninismov, Seabrook, Keith).

You've got your big guns signed forver.
You're married to them and their window.

And that window is closing. So you can't do the "tear down" right now.

He should be in "rebuild on the fly" mode, like Holland should have been after the first San Jose loss, where you keep your core and trade away expensive non-core pieces.

But to Bowman's credit, he's been in "rebuild on the fly" mode since winning his first cup. He just ran out of moves.

So what is there to do this year?
The only UFAs I'd part with are Wingels and Sharp. But Sharp has an NMC.

Can you get a 7th rounder for Wingels?

There's nowhere for Bowman to go.

And most moves he could make would be incredibly dumb, because these expensive guys are at their lowest possible value.

So the move is, sit tight.
Fire Quenneville at the end of the year.

I just ran their capfriendly and after signing all the UFAs/RFAs and LTIRing Hossa, they've got $13M to spend.

They could sign Jack Johnson and Mike Green.
They could sign Green and Nash
They could make a pitch for Tavares.

Take a look at the 2011-12 Red Wings.
Add two quality defensemen.
Add or a superstar center.
Or a quality defenseman and quality top 6 winger.

 

[Flowah]

At this age, I think you can change the outlook of this team a lot by changing the coach.
Toews should not be this bad.
Seabrook should not be this bad.
Keith should not be this bad.

Hawks fans have lamented Seabrooks and especially his contract for at least a year and a half now. I think they've seen the writing on the wall about his decline for a while. Keith is 34. Toews has never really been THAT good. He may just be having an off year. That certainly has happened to good players before.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I'm not offended. I just think there's some level of throwing stones while living in glass houses going on... but oh well.

Again, I do not think you are grasping the point of what he was saying.

He is talking about how impressive it was that our older players were able to keep on trucking despite getting older and regressing, while other teams with their stars don't appear to be able to do the same. That isn't "making fun" of other players but praising our own.

 

[jkutswings]

If Chicago fires Quenville at the end of the year, I have somebody waiting in the parking lot to hire him. He's orders of magnitude ahead of Jeff Blashill as an NHL head coach.

The biggest factor in Hawks fading away is that their roster is aging out.

 

[Frk It]

Again, I do not think you are grasping the point of what he was saying.

He is talking about how impressive it was that our older players were able to keep on trucking despite getting older and regressing, while other teams with their stars don't appear to be able to do the same. That isn't "making fun" of other players but praising our own.

Maybe I shouldn't have keyed on just that 1 post, but it is happening in more than 1 thread right now with a bunch of different posts. That's what I was speaking to.

 

[Henkka]

Would also like to get Quenneville.

Hawks still play the most entertaining puck-possession hockey. It just isn't anymore effective. We proably won't have players for that either, but few bad years and winning in the lottery could do a change.

 

[Dotter]

Should Las Vegas buy or sell at TDL? Is it foolish they think they can win now or should they be thinking of the future? I think if it was the Red Wings going on a fairy tale run, many [fickled] fans here would still want to sell and rebuild despite having an amazing regular season. Am I wrong?

 

[Winger98]

Should Las Vegas buy or sell at TDL? Is it foolish they think they can win now or should they be thinking of the future? I think if it was the Red Wings going on a fairy tale run, many [fickled] fans here would still want to sell and rebuild despite having an amazing regular season. Am I wrong?

I don't think they can really afford to buy or sell outside of dealing a mid round pick or two. Make a go with what they have. Look to deal the rights of guys not coming back for whatever they can get just after the season ends and move on over the summer.

 

[kliq]

The big difference is that Bowman has been aggressively changing the roster for 5-6 years already.

The similarity is that Bowman seems to have run out of ideas and he just keeps bringing back relics of past glory.

But Toews is 29.
Kane is 29..
Kane is 34.
Seabrook is 32.
Crawford is 33.

Compared to the 11-12 WIngs
Datsyuk 33
Zetterberg 30
Lidstrom 41
Kronwall 30
Franzen 31

I think Chicago is still young enough to push for 3-4 more years.
But they need a fresh voice behind the bench.

I'll give Bowman credit for what he did after their first cup run, after losing Versteeg, Byfuglien, Barker, Niemi, and Ladd he was able to patch the holes seamlessly.

Yes, if you are going purely based on age, they look better off, but our guys were so much better for their age. Seabrook appears to be a shell of himself (to Hawks fans he's essentially their version of E), Kane and Keith are still good, but Towes is way overpaid/overrated, and Crawford is a question mark. With the money owed to these 5, unless the cap goes way up or they are able to trade a Towes or Seabrook, I think they are going to be stuck in mediocrity for a while. That's where i see the similarities, they are too good to not make the playoffs (or so I thought lol), but they are not good enough to win the cup.

That Saad for Panarin trade was awful. Panarin could have been a building block for the next generation there.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Should Las Vegas buy or sell at TDL? Is it foolish they think they can win now or should they be thinking of the future? I think if it was the Red Wings going on a fairy tale run, many [fickled] fans here would still want to sell and rebuild despite having an amazing regular season. Am I wrong?

I wouldn’t buy or sell. This team needs another year to see if they are for real. Right now they are contenders but who knows what they do in the playoffs. If they do good next year they are for real and should start buying.

 

[Redder Winger]

I'll give Bowman credit for what he did after their first cup run, after losing Versteeg, Byfuglien, Barker, Niemi, and Ladd he was able to patch the holes seamlessly.

Yes, if you are going purely based on age, they look better off, but our guys were so much better for their age. Seabrook appears to be a shell of himself (to Hawks fans he's essentially their version of E), Kane and Keith are still good, but Towes is way overpaid/overrated, and Crawford is a question mark. With the money owed to these 5, unless the cap goes way up or they are able to trade a Towes or Seabrook, I think they are going to be stuck in mediocrity for a while. That's where i see the similarities, they are too good to not make the playoffs (or so I thought lol), but they are not good enough to win the cup.

That Saad for Panarin trade was awful. Panarin could have been a building block for the next generation there.

I agree. About 2-3 years ago, Bowman started going off the rails.
But regarding Toews, I still think he's among the best centers in the game.

 

[Redder Winger]

If Chicago fires Quenville at the end of the year, I have somebody waiting in the parking lot to hire him. He's orders of magnitude ahead of Jeff Blashill as an NHL head coach.

The biggest factor in Hawks fading away is that their roster is aging out.

He's from across the river.
So maybe he'd give us a shot.

I wouldn't expect miracles though.

 

[Claypool]

Should Las Vegas buy or sell at TDL? Is it foolish they think they can win now or should they be thinking of the future? I think if it was the Red Wings going on a fairy tale run, many [fickled] fans here would still want to sell and rebuild despite having an amazing regular season. Am I wrong?

You buy.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I wouldn’t buy or sell. This team needs another year to see if they are for real. Right now they are contenders but who knows what they do in the playoffs. If they do good next year they are for real and should start buying.

They need to build out their prospect pool so I doubt they trade a 1st or 2nd rounder. So probably in the market for a hockey trade if they find a good deal.

 

[Claypool]

They need to build out their prospect pool so I doubt they trade a 1st or 2nd rounder. So probably in the market for a hockey trade if they find a good deal.

They are the first place team in the NHL. They'd be nuts to not pick up a depth forward and/or depth defeneseman.

 

[Winger98]

They are the first place team in the NHL. They'd be nuts to not pick up a depth forward and/or depth defeneseman.

Depends on costs. Around here folks are putting Glendening's value at a 2nd, and I consider him just a "depth" guy. Meanwhile, they haven't re-sighed Neal or Perron, and their entire farm system literally didn't exist until this past summer. I'm sure they'd like to stock up on something, and dealing something like a fourth or whatever probably wouldn't be a big deal. But is a guy they get back for a fourth going to be worth anything any way?

Vegas is in a position where if they're spending an asset, they might be better off trying to swing a bigger deal to get a really good player who is signed/under control for a few more years.

 

[Winger98]

Laine has a freakish shot. His beard sucks, though.

 

[Ezekial]

Jurco is back in the Hawks lineup tonight and is slated on their second line with Kane and Anisimov.

 

[chances14]

Jurco is back in the Hawks lineup tonight and is slated on their second line with Kane and Anisimov.

so the tank is on then in chicago?

 

[Ezekial]

so the tank is on then in chicago?

I guess... Didn't watch the game but he went pointless in 16:23. 1 point in 26 games as a Hawk.

 

[MikeyDee]

Should Las Vegas buy or sell at TDL? Is it foolish they think they can win now or should they be thinking of the future? I think if it was the Red Wings going on a fairy tale run, many [fickled] fans here would still want to sell and rebuild despite having an amazing regular season. Am I wrong?

Chemistry should dictate that VGK not sell or buy IMO... stand pat. At least no trades that could upset the chemistry.

As far as the Red Wings fans... I hate to say this, but many are bandwagoners and probably would jump at the idea of adding a player or two to help them win the cup [thinking the regular season success would translate to an assured successful playoff season].

 

[Konnan511]

If Corey Crawford didn't get injured, Hawks might be leading the league in points, he was phenomenal before his injury. If Forsberg finds any consistency, they may be able to squeak into the playoffs (very very very highly doubt they can). Unfortunately he has Red Wing goalie syndrome: Have two good games in a row, then a fistful of bad ones after that.