Around the League Part 8: Welcome to the league Vegas, and Duchene discussion

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Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
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I found this gem on YT.


SYyvolE
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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Hell yes, now that Skinner for Hoffman trade can never happen. Well, after the off-ice drama stuff it was probably dead, but I had zero interest in seeing that "hockey deal" so I'm glad to see it official.

Where was there a "Skinner for Hoffman" trade? I highly doubt Skinner would waive his NMC to go to Ottawa, in fact, I would think there was zero chance of that.

Or were you referring to trading Skinner to another team and then trading for Hoffman as a backfill?
 

What the Faulk

You'll know when you go
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Where was there a "Skinner for Hoffman" trade? I highly doubt Skinner would waive his NMC to go to Ottawa, in fact, I would think there was zero chance of that.

Or were you referring to trading Skinner to another team and then trading for Hoffman as a backfill?

NMCs are waived more than you think. If your old team doesn't want you, it's usually fairly easy to get players to waive NMCs to go to a team that does. Especially for a guy without a family.
 

Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
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I'd easily take a chance on him given how cheap he was. The guy can help this team win and given what has happened, he and the GF are likely going to go out of their way not to disrupt anything. I'm betting he'll be a model citizen in SJ.

Once you start making an argument that you are trying to "change the culture", bringing in Hoffman makes zero sense. If they stuck to the rationale of "we need better players" as Dundon did at the start of the off-season I can see arguing for bringing in Hoffman.

I'll be very surprised if Hoffman is still with his girlfriend after this. It's going to be hard to bring her into any extended team dynamic.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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NMCs are waived more than you think. If your old team doesn't want you, it's usually fairly easy to get players to waive NMCs to go to a team that does. Especially for a guy without a family.

I don't think they are waived more than I think, because we know how many guys waive their NTC/NMC. I disagree that it's "fairly easy"because if that was the case, then guys wouldn't even waste time negotiating them in.

The cases we see where NMC/NTC's are waived are when guys go to a team they want to go to because they are good or upcoming teams. Nash to NYR, Phaneuf to LAK (but he refused to waive for Vegas), Kessel to Pitt, Stastny to WPG (top team in the west), McDonagh to TBL, Kruger so he's not stuck in the AHL). Of the almost 170 guys in the NHL with NTC/NMC, those are the main (maybe only?) ones we know have waived, and every one of them is to a much better situation. It's not more often than I think.

What we don't know is how many times guys refuse to waive it or a team informally asks a guy and he say he won't.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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Once you start making an argument that you are trying to "change the culture", bringing in Hoffman makes zero sense. If they stuck to the rationale of "we need better players" as Dundon did at the start of the off-season I can see arguing for bringing in Hoffman.

Maybe, but it depends. Changing the "culture" in my view was changing the LOSING culture. Like Brindy said, this team would enter the 3rd knowing they were going to blow it. That's what I think he means by "changing the culture".

I'll be very surprised if Hoffman is still with his girlfriend after this. It's going to be hard to bring her into any extended team dynamic.

I think a lot of it depends on what still comes out on this so I could see it going either way. I don't know the details of their relationship, but they've been together 10 years. Even if there is proof, I could see a situation where he stays with her by apologizing, saying she is getting counseling, etc.. and eventually it will blow over. It won't surprise me at all if they break up either.
 

What the Faulk

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I don't think they are waived more than I think, because we know how many guys waive their NTC/NMC. I disagree that it's "fairly easy"because if that was the case, then guys wouldn't even waste time negotiating them in.

The cases we see where NMC/NTC's are waived are when guys go to a team they want to go to because they are good or upcoming teams. Nash to NYR, Phaneuf to LAK, Kessel to Pitt, Stastny to WPG (top team in the west), McDonagh to TBL, Kruger so he's not stuck in the AHL). Of the almost 170 guys in the NHL with NTC/NMC, those are the main (maybe only?) ones we know have waived, and every one of them is to a much better situation. It's not more often than I think.

What we don't know is how many times guys refuse to waive it or a team informally asks a guy and he say he won't.

K, except most of the players with NMCs are likely not even approached or the team has no desire to move them. That's not the situation Skinner is in. He's undoubtedly been approached and he'll probably waive it to go just about anywhere in the last year before free agency.
 

DaveG

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Apr 7, 2003
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I'd easily take a chance on him given how cheap he was. The guy can help this team win and given what has happened, he and the GF are likely going to go out of their way not to disrupt anything. I'm betting he'll be a model citizen in SJ.
He absolutely will, but you can't fix crazy if what is being said about her is even remotely true.
 

A Star is Burns

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The only way I see Skinner trading one loser for another is one that has deep pockets for a big extension, or some kind of hope for a big year. Ottawa doesn't really provide either to me. That's why Buffalo doesn't seem outlandish to me by comparison. Play with Eichel and they've shown they'll throw around money.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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K, except most of the players with NMCs are likely not even approached or the team has no desire to move them.

Again, you don't know that. Even if they didn't approach a guy to waive it, part of it is likely because they know he won't. We know that Phaneuf agreed to waive when it was in his best interest (getting out of a rebuilding team to go to Ottawa), then refused to go to what he likely thought was a bad team (VGN), then agreed to waive it when he was going to a playoff team (LAK).

The fact is that there have been very few cases out of > 150 guys with NTC/NMC where a guy waives it, and in every case (I can see) said player was going to a much better situation. So saying "it's fairly easy to get players to waive them" is complete speculation on your part in which there is no data to support.

That's not the situation Skinner is in. He's undoubtedly been approached and he'll probably waive it to go just about anywhere in the last year before free agency.

That's one way to look at it, but I can speculate as well. Skinner is one year away from UFA and never been in the playoffs. If he is going to waive, it's going to either be for a playoff team or on a team where he has a chance to really break-out and ensure he gets the best contract possible. We are both speculating here, but my view is he won't waive his NMC to go to a team that will likely be very, very bad and is in disarray. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Even McKenzie, one of the most respected journalists, thinks his NMC will limit the Canes options/affect value. If the view was "he'd waive it to go just about anywhere", I doubt McKenzie would think it would impact value.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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@Whatthefaulk You still have provided nothing substantive to show that it's "fairly easy" to get players to waive a NMC and that Skinner would waive to go anywhere.

In contrast:

1) we have very few cases of guys waiving NTC/NMC in the NHL
2) In virtually every case I see, a player was going to a better situation when he waived. Fleury is about the only one, but even that's debatable because he wasn't going to be a starter in Pittsburgh (and reportedly would ONLY waive for Vegas).
3) Even respectable talking heads (McKenzie) feel Skinner's NMC will have an impact.

If Skinner waives to go to Ottawa, I'll gladly eat crow. Skinner is going to get top 6 minutes if he stays here or goes to another team. This isn't like Darling where he may be in the AHL if he stays here.

Until Skinner waives for a team like Ottawa, I'll just disagree with your opinion on that.
 
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