Around the League 2017-18 Edition

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Paul4587

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Jan 26, 2006
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Getzlaf is a better overall passer yes. But he doesn't pass through traffic and find seams the way Marchesseault does. Mostly cause he doesn't try. Not because he doesn't have the capability. Idk. Maybe I was being overzealous but if you watch the goals Marchesseault feeds to Karlsson, I'd think Rakell can finish more of them. I'm just saying if he had been there instead of Wild Bill and had the chemistry Rakell could have better numbers. Or at least the same numbers.

Maybe if Rakell shot 25 percent for a whole year. But he is more likely to do that playing with Getzlaf than Marchesseault. Karlsson is having possibly the luckiest season (in terms of everything going in) in the past couple of decades.
 

HanSolo

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Maybe if Rakell shot 25 percent for a whole year. But he is more likely to do that playing with Getzlaf than Marchesseault. Karlsson is having possibly the luckiest season (in terms of everything going in) in the past couple of decades.
He's shooting 24% because of how often Marchesseault and Smith find him with an open net to shoot at. Sure part of that is luck but not exclusively. Rakell gets plenty of goals on his own creativity and drive to the net.

It's easy to just look at a number and assume 1/4th of the time Wild Bill flings a softie at the net the goalie brain farts and lets it in and he's just getting lucky but that's not what's happening. Maybe the goal today where Smith got a glove on it but it tipped past him sure, but that's not the bulk of what's actually happening.
 
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Paul4587

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He's shooting 24% because of how often Marchesseault and Smith find him with an open net to shoot at. Sure part of that is luck but not exclusively. Rakell gets plenty of goals on his own creativity and drive to the net.

It's easy to just look at a number and assume 1/4th of the time Wild Bill flings a softie at the net the goalie brain farts and lets it in and he's just getting lucky but that's not what's happening. Maybe the goal today where Smith got a glove on it but it tipped past him sure, but that's not the bulk of what's actually happening.

I watch Karlsson a lot, I’ve been a big fan of his since we drafted him. But it’s not just a matter of him getting tap ins. Even when players are getting set up point blank frequently they still miss all the time. Karlsson is finishing and deserves to be commended for that but in reality they won’t keep going in at this rate no matter how many open nets he gets. And let’s be honest Marchesseault is good but there are other players who put the puck on their teammates sticks in high percentage a lot more than he does. And their linemates aren’t converting at the rate Wild Bill is.

I would be willing to bet my hfboards account that Karlsson doesn’t shoot above 15 percent next season. I would also bet he’s held under 30 goals. Hell I would be surprised if he eclipses 25. He’s a second liner who has had everything go right for him.
 
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JabbaJabba

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Dec 22, 2010
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Even Jason Blake had a 40 goal season, his next best was 28 goal season. Karlsson's season is very good but we should wait and see how his career continues.
 
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Getzlaf is a better overall passer yes. But he doesn't pass through traffic and find seams the way Marchesseault does. Mostly cause he doesn't try. Not because he doesn't have the capability. Idk. Maybe I was being overzealous but if you watch the goals Marchesseault feeds to Karlsson, I'd think Rakell can finish more of them. I'm just saying if he had been there instead of Wild Bill and had the chemistry Rakell could have better numbers. Or at least the same numbers.

But Rakell is the better player and that's my main point.
Obviously its a big world and this board has been around for a long time. But this is one of the worst takes I've ever read on hf.
 

HanSolo

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Obviously its a big world and this board has been around for a long time. But this is one of the worst takes I've ever read on hf.
Getzlaf playmakes far more consistently. That's not what I'm arguing. Their passing style and decision making is distinctly different.

Way to ignore the next two sentences though.
 
Aug 11, 2011
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Getzlaf playmakes far more consistently. That's not what I'm arguing. Their passing style and decision making is distinctly different.

Way to ignore the next two sentences though.
I'm not ignoring them; they don't change anything. Even a cursory glance at Getz's highlights shows dozens of passes like you're describing, including one just last night. And that's just the ones that result in goals.
 
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DaGeneral

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Apr 15, 2012
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Getzlaf playmakes far more consistently. That's not what I'm arguing. Their passing style and decision making is distinctly different.

Way to ignore the next two sentences though.
It’s Boogernaut, he’s only here for the hot takes! In all seriousness, Getz style doesn’t need threading the needle type passes
 

AngelDuck

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Jun 16, 2012
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I don't think there is a better pure playmaker than Getzlaf in today's game. McDavid maybe? I feel like Getz has taken over for Joe Thornton in that position
 
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HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
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I'm not ignoring them; they don't change anything. Even a cursory glance at Getz's highlights shows dozens of passes like you're describing, including one just last night. And that's just the ones that result in goals.
It’s Boogernaut, he’s only here for the hot takes! In all seriousness, Getz style doesn’t need threading the needle type passes
Responding to both by responding to you. I never claimed Getzlaf needed that for his playmaking. What Getzlaf does is finding passing lanes and angles that most wouldn't think of and executes brilliantly. Much of the time Getzlaf's own imposing size gives him the time to make those passes without strict pressure.

Now I already said there's no way Marchesseault is in the same tier as a Getzlaf or Crosby at this. But a tier below isn't an unfair statement IMO. What he does differently is entice defenders to chase him because he's small enough that there's an expectation that he can be knocked off the puck and he's known, for now, primarily as a shooter. He's gotten the benefit of not being known for his playmaking and I don't know how long that's going to last. But all the same he gets multiple defenders chasing him and under high pressure he does those thread the needle passes that often result after the goalie hard tracks him so that his passes immobilize the goalie and Karlsson is just able to put it home at an empty net. This is what I've been getting at. I'm not saying his passing is as good or better than Getzlaf's. But his style, along with Smith's doing more or less the same thing, causes havoc for opposing defenders and goalies and Karlsson is able to benefit from the chaos because he knows when and where to be to put home comparatively easy shots. The only reason I hold the expectation that Rakell could put home more goals had he been on the same line is he has those kinds of smarts already to place himself in good position but he's much better than Karlsson at generating goal scoring chances for himself. (and moreover, yes. Getzlaf is a better playmaker than Marchesseault or Smith. But the pair of them, who are constantly moving their feet, generate more high quality chances for Karlsson in tandem than Getzlaf alone for Perry and Rakell. I mean yeah Perry has been better of late but our top line is just not as fast as Vegas' and that trait has allowed a line with a combined 83 goals)

The whole point of my claim was that Rakell is a superior player to Karlsson and no one should be crying over spilled milk that we lost Wild Bill. Had he still been here and the Henrique deal never happened, Karlsson would be on the third line not scoring nearly these kinds of numbers.
 

bsu

"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
Sep 27, 2017
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All karlsson goals are one timers, rebounds and tap ins that's why his shooting percentage is so high.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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I watch Karlsson a lot, I’ve been a big fan of his since we drafted him. But it’s not just a matter of him getting tap ins. Even when players are getting set up point blank frequently they still miss all the time. Karlsson is finishing and deserves to be commended for that but in reality they won’t keep going in at this rate no matter how many open nets he gets. And let’s be honest Marchesseault is good but there are other players who put the puck on their teammates sticks in high percentage a lot more than he does. And their linemates aren’t converting at the rate Wild Bill is.

I would be willing to bet my hfboards account that Karlsson doesn’t shoot above 15 percent next season. I would also bet he’s held under 30 goals. Hell I would be surprised if he eclipses 25. He’s a second liner who has had everything go right for him.
I too will bet my hfboards account on the fact that this will be his highest goal output in his career .. I do think he could be a strong playmaker tho with his skillset(that's why I wont put the bet on points)
 

Paul4587

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I don't think there is a better pure playmaker than Getzlaf in today's game. McDavid maybe? I feel like Getz has taken over for Joe Thornton in that position

McDavid is more pure speed in terms of actual passing I would rate Getzlaf higher. Crosby is still up there too, Getzy is definitely top 3.
 
Aug 11, 2011
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I don't think there is a better pure playmaker than Getzlaf in today's game. McDavid maybe? I feel like Getz has taken over for Joe Thornton in that position
Fun fact, Getz is 5th in total assists over the last 5 seasons, within 20 assists of 1st (Backstrom), having played about 40 fewer games. He's also one point behind Crosby/Malkin in playoff points over that span, in 14 fewer games. In fact he's already top 40 all-time in playoff assists. At 32. This guy doesn't get the kind of credit he deserves for his career or for the level he plays at 90% of the time, even from this board.
 

Paul4587

Registered User
Jan 26, 2006
31,162
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All karlsson goals are one timers, rebounds and tap ins that's why his shooting percentage is so high.

There are loads of players around the league who only score those types of goals. None of them shoot at even 15 perecent, let alone 25. His shooting percentage will plummet next year.
 

Dr Johnny Fever

Eggplant and Teal
Apr 11, 2012
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Fun fact, Getz is 5th in total assists over the last 5 seasons, within 20 assists of 1st (Backstrom), having played about 40 fewer games. He's also one point behind Crosby/Malkin in playoff points over that span, in 14 fewer games. In fact he's already top 40 all-time in playoff assists. At 32. This guy doesn't get the kind of credit he deserves for his career or for the level he plays at 90% of the time, even from this board.
Nobody playing in the sunbelt ever will.
 
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Sojourn

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Nov 1, 2006
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Stamkos was also a 1st overall pick, and the only awards he has actually won are his two Rocket Richards, which are in no way subjective. There is no voting for that. Lead the league in goals, win a trophy.

Not that he was going to win the Hart in 2012, when he scored 60 goals(Tampa didn't make the playoffs), but the accolades he gets is effectively all about goal scoring. I'm not sure he's an example of a player who got the respect he deserved despite being on a Sunbelt team.
 

Dryish

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Dec 14, 2015
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I thought we were talking about praise and acclaim from fans and/or journos, not awards per se. Because if we talk awards then that's absolutely and completely obvious, quite in the same vein as us still not having had a draft or an all-star weekend or anything of the sort. Small market visibility is way lesser and will forever be.
 

Sojourn

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Nov 1, 2006
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I thought we were talking about praise and acclaim from fans and/or journos, not awards per se. Because if we talk awards then that's absolutely and completely obvious, quite in the same vein as us still not having had a draft or an all-star weekend or anything of the sort. Small market visibility is way lesser and will forever be.

They are related.

Awards that are voted on are influenced by media exposure, and praise from fans around the league comes from 1) watching a player, 2) looking at statistics, and 3) the media. If you wanted a list of what has the highest impact, IMO, just reverse the list.

Fans don't just favor their players because they are on their team. They favor them because they see them the most. It's simple exposure. Likewise, if your team sees certain players a lot, you might have a higher level of respect for their play. Those types of things feed on each other. Large fanbases that see certain players more often will hype them more, the media will, of course, feed even more into that, and so on and so on.
 
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Sojourn

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Objectivity from fans or the media isn't required, and it certainly isn't provided. Most fans don't care about how other players do, except when it impacts them. The media cares about their share, and the financial gains, so you want to draw the biggest audience that will want to see what you're saying.
 
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