Around the League - 15/16 Edition: Part 4

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Rawg

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So sounds like Datsyuk is going to retire from the NHL after the Red Wings playoff run. That's gonna burn the Red Wings as his contract is a 35+ one and they're going to be stuck with his 7.5 million cap hit next season. Pretty tough to replace the loss of your best player when he's taking up 10% of your cap and not even playing.

I bet he is just going to get ferrenced or prongered, LTIR next year etc unless he plays in the KHL
 

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So Blues face the Hawks in the 1st round of the playoffs. I wonder what another early exit will do to their team. What will they do, except firing Hitch? Do they blow it up and build around a new core of Tarasenko, Fabbri and Parayko or are they content with just moving some smaller pieces? Will be interesting to follow.

Yet some say the WC isn't tough going in playoffs.

Have one of the best records in the NHL all season, finish high in the standings, and have to play the Chicago Black Hawks in first round.

Conversely Tampa was out of a playoff spot much of the season, had a lacklustre season, and they get to play the lowly Detroit Red Wings in first round. A team with a -13 differential that somehow (because Boston imploded over last 20games) made the playoffs.

Ever wonder why I'm saying WC playoffs are harder all the time?
 

doulos

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7th time in 10 seasons. Would have been 8 times if not for the lockout shortened season. In his 10 years in the league no one else has done it more than twice... Now only Mike Bossy and Wayne Gretzky are ahead of him in terms of # of 50 goal seasons. A remarkable goal scorer in an era where remarkable goal scorers are extinct outside of Ovechkin.

Stamkos looked like he was going to be able to rival Ovechkin after he put up that 60 goal season, but since than injuries/inconsistency hasn't seen him come close to 50 again.

Really goes to show truly incredible Ovechkin is with his consistency. Given the time period he has played in I think he truly could be the greatest pure goal scorer the league has ever seen.
 

Toydarian

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Yet some say the WC isn't tough going in playoffs.

Have one of the best records in the NHL all season, finish high in the standings, and have to play the Chicago Black Hawks in first round.

Conversely Tampa was out of a playoff spot much of the season, had a lacklustre season, and they get to play the lowly Detroit Red Wings in first round. A team with a -13 differential that somehow (because Boston imploded over last 20games) made the playoffs.

Ever wonder why I'm saying WC playoffs are harder all the time?

People are saying the western conference playoffs aren't tough?
 

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People are saying the western conference playoffs aren't tough?

All the Tampa fans on here were always saying that as per last season.

The discussion stemmed from observations by myself and others that the real SC last year was probably Hawks vs Ducks in which both teams gave everything they got. Hawks were nearly exhausted going into the SC final against a Tampa team that hadn't seen any opponent that good.
 

Zaddy

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Yet some say the WC isn't tough going in playoffs.

Have one of the best records in the NHL all season, finish high in the standings, and have to play the Chicago Black Hawks in first round.

Conversely Tampa was out of a playoff spot much of the season, had a lacklustre season, and they get to play the lowly Detroit Red Wings in first round. A team with a -13 differential that somehow (because Boston imploded over last 20games) made the playoffs.

Ever wonder why I'm saying WC playoffs are harder all the time?

I've never claimed WC playoffs aren't tougher in general. I definitely agree with that. I think what we debated was which teams road to the Cup finals was tougher last year though and Ducks had a pretty easy road up until the WCF's where they met the Hawks, which was pretty similar to how Tampa had to play the Rangers in the ECF's. Ducks blanked the Jets and 4-1'ed the Flames, both teams who had nothing to do in the playoffs. Hawks themselves played the Preds in the first round which you could probably equal to Detroit or Montreal in the East and then they blanked the Wild, which meant they had played 3 less games than Tampa before the finals. So last year wasn't really a good example of how tough the playoffs in the West can be.
 

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I've never claimed WC playoffs aren't tougher in general. I definitely agree with that. I think what we debated was which teams road to the Cup finals was tougher last year though and Ducks had a pretty easy road up until the WCF's where they met the Hawks, which was pretty similar to how Tampa had to play the Rangers in the ECF's. Ducks blanked the Jets and 4-1'ed the Flames, both teams who had nothing to do in the playoffs. Hawks themselves played the Preds in the first round which you could probably equal to Detroit or Montreal in the East and then they blanked the Wild, which meant they had played 3 less games than Tampa before the finals. So last year wasn't really a good example of how tough the playoffs in the West can be.

Sorry, but the convo was exactly as I had framed it. Hawks/Ducks virtually went to war in their series last season which was two weeks of hell for both clubs which I'm sure Tampa loved.

Really if you did a bruise count going into the final it wouldn't even be close. The Hawks were completely gassed going into the final and once Hawks got their 2nd wind the Lightning were done. The Lightning had not seen any team like the Hawks or the Ducks in the WC playoffs. Certainly nothing like the punishing Ducks forecheck that Hawks had to overcome.

The NHL conference configuration practically gifted the Lightning the first couple games of the SC final and the Lightning still couldn't beat the Hawks.

Also, if you remember I was pretty suspect about the SC final last season not being preceded by the typical amount of rest days off so that the clubs could prepare for the final which was obviously to the Lightnings advantage. Typically there are 5 or so days before the final starts.

and no, the slow geriatric Rangers were nothing like the Hawks or Ducks.

LA had no trouble whatsoever solving a deeper Rangers roster just the year before. 5 games. Would've been 4 except LA had a hellish playoffs in the WC.
 

Zaddy

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Sorry, but the convo was exactly as I had framed it. Hawks/Ducks virtually went to war in their series last season which was two weeks of hell for both clubs which I'm sure Tampa loved.

Really if you did a bruise count going into the final it wouldn't even be close. The Hawks were completely gassed going into the final and once Hawks got their 2nd wind the Lightning were done. The Lightning had not seen any team like the Hawks or the Ducks in the WC playoffs. Certainly nothing like the punishing Ducks forecheck that Hawks had to overcome.

The NHL conference configuration practically gifted the Lightning the first couple games of the SC final and the Lightning still couldn't beat the Hawks.

Also, if you remember I was pretty suspect about the SC final last season not being preceded by the typical amount of rest days off so that the clubs could prepare for the final which was obviously to the Lightnings advantage. Typically there are 5 or so days before the final starts.

and no, the slow geriatric Rangers were nothing like the Hawks or Ducks.

LA had no trouble whatsoever solving a deeper Rangers roster just the year before. 5 games. Would've been 4 except LA had a hellish playoffs in the WC.

So having played another 3 games is a non-factor in your eyes? That's draining both physically and mentally. It seems ridiculous to suggest that the finals would be gifted to the Bolts when they had more games and less recovery time. I also think they had much more significant injuries than the Hawks had. Johnson and Bishop was perhaps their two most important players (together with Hedman) and they had a broken wrist (Johnson) and a torn groin (Bishop). That's pretty damn awful to play through. Johnson couldn't even shoot the puck and I can't imagine playing goalie with a torn groin to be much fun either. That should limit your movement quite severely I would think. I guess none of that matters though because the Hawks played against the Ducks in the WCF's. :dunno:
 

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So having played another 3 games is a non-factor in your eyes? That's draining both physically and mentally. It seems ridiculous to suggest that the finals would be gifted to the Bolts when they had more games and less recovery time. I also think they had much more significant injuries than the Hawks had. Johnson and Bishop was perhaps their two most important players (together with Hedman) and they had a broken wrist (Johnson) and a torn groin (Bishop). That's pretty damn awful to play through. Johnson couldn't even shoot the puck and I can't imagine playing goalie with a torn groin to be much fun either. That should limit your movement quite severely I would think. I guess none of that matters though because the Hawks played against the Ducks in the WCF's. :dunno:

Johnson still can't shoot the puck and its a year later and oh, the smurf is injured again. What did this *elite* player finish with this season 40pts?

Oh, and Tampa had one more rest day than the Hawks had in preparing for the final. Plus that its only Tampas fault that the Rangers managed to extend the series 7 games. If lightning we're smart they would have put the Rangers away earlier.
Either the Hawks or the Ducks would have eviscerated the Rangers even worse than the Kings did a year earlier to a much deeper Ranger squad.

As per Tampa playing more games in the EC to get to the final that just further points out that even in the weak EC Tampa had trouble advancing. Because Tampa really wasn't all that much better than the very ordinary clubs they faced. jebus a year later and the Habs, who you guys said were a fierce opponent for Tampa rivalling anything in the WC, are one of the worst teams in the league.

Anyway the EC is stronger this year than last and Tampa will be out soon enough even though I see they got the fortunate first round bye with the horrible Detroit Red Wings.
 

Zaddy

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Johnson still can't shoot the puck and its a year later and oh, the smurf is injured again. What did this *elite* player finish with this season 40pts?

Oh, and Tampa had one more rest day than the Hawks had in preparing for the final. Plus that its only Tampas fault that the Rangers managed to extend the series 7 games. If lightning we're smart they would have put the Rangers away earlier.
Either the Hawks or the Ducks would have eviscerated the Rangers even worse than the Kings did a year earlier to a much deeper Ranger squad.

Do you even read what you write? This stuff is comedy gold.

As per Tampa playing more games in the EC to get to the final that just further points out that even in the weak EC Tampa had trouble advancing. Because Tampa really wasn't all that much better than the very ordinary clubs they faced. jebus a year later and the Habs, who you guys said were a fierce opponent for Tampa rivalling anything in the WC, are one of the worst teams in the league.

Unless I'm getting senile already in my 20's I do not recall ever saying that. I've never considered the Habs a good team so that would be an odd thing for me to say.

For what it's worth, I never said the Hawks didn't deserve winning the Cup and I'm not insinuating that either. All I've ever done is trying to convince people (mostly you actually) that Tampa is a respectable team.

Either way, I don't wanna get deeper into this discussion and I'd be happy if we didn't have to bring it up all the time. My original post had nothing to do with Tampa so I'm not sure why you felt the need to take shots at them in this particular case.
 

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Do you even read what you write? This stuff is comedy gold.

How is it comedic. Any Decent WC team would've destroyed the limping Rangers last season. MSL was injured and ancient as a fossil. Zuccarello was injured. The rangers looked slow and tired as molasses. Its only the Lightnings fault, through their inconsistent play, and not being all that great, that they took that long disposing of the Rangers. Fact of the matter is the Lightning were barely better than a pretty ordinary Rangers squad that had a less strong lineup than their SC run.

Lets be clear here too. Last season you guys were saying Tampa is an ELITE Team, Reminiscent of the 80's Oilers (this sickening hyperbole actually stated) and that Tyler Johnson is an elite forward. These points were being foisted so ardently my comments that he is not we're considered "comedic gold"

I remember at the time saying Johnson would predictably deflate when closer NHL checking intervened. Now teams have finally figured out you just have to check the guy. He's a smurf and not a particularly good one. The MLS comparisons were rife last year..
 

CupofOil

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Yet some say the WC isn't tough going in playoffs.

Have one of the best records in the NHL all season, finish high in the standings, and have to play the Chicago Black Hawks in first round.

Conversely Tampa was out of a playoff spot much of the season, had a lacklustre season, and they get to play the lowly Detroit Red Wings in first round. A team with a -13 differential that somehow (because Boston imploded over last 20games) made the playoffs.

Ever wonder why I'm saying WC playoffs are harder all the time?

If you go beyond Washington, the east looks incredibly mediocre. Even a team like the Rangers who have been amongst the east best looks very average this season.
This is Ovi's best chance to get out of the east.

Meanwhile in the west, it's heavyweight matchups all over the place. Minnesota is the only team that looks like 1st round fodder but you have the Hawks, Blues, California teams and Dallas. The west is such a beast once again. Gonna be some real physical battles in these 1st round matchups.

I'm hoping that the Blues lose to the Hawks again in a low scoring series with the hope that they free up Pietrangelo for a trade to get a #1 center. Who has one of those to deal to the Blues and might have multiple to choose from if they win the lottery? Hmmm.....
 

doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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Is it that time of year again? Everyone bringing out the same old tired and battered arguments and foaming at the mouth.

Just enjoy some great hockey folks. Playoffs is so much fun, even if the good guys are not in yet again.
 

CupofOil

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Is it that time of year again? Everyone bringing out the same old tired and battered arguments and foaming at the mouth.

Just enjoy some great hockey folks. Playoffs is so much fun, even if the good guys are not in yet again.

Or people just have different opinions.
 

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If you go beyond Washington, the east looks incredibly mediocre. Even a team like the Rangers who have been amongst the east best looks very average this season.
This is Ovi's best chance to get out of the east.

Meanwhile in the west, it's heavyweight matchups all over the place. Minnesota is the only team that looks like 1st round fodder but you have the Hawks, Blues, California teams and Dallas. The west is such a beast once again. Gonna be some real physical battles in these 1st round matchups.

I'm hoping that the Blues lose to the Hawks again in a low scoring series with the hope that they free up Pietrangelo for a trade to get a #1 center. Who has one of those to deal to the Blues and might have multiple to choose from if they win the lottery? Hmmm.....

Florida seems half decent. But yeah, The fact that the Bruins, Wings, Flyers, Sens, Devils,Islanders, etc were even in the playoff race. None of them would make it in the WC. All of them were blowing tires down the stretch. lol that Detroit clinched on a day when both they, and the Bruins lost. That was kind of fitting. Like a backwards derby.

When is the last time a club with a -13 goal differential made the playoffs? Not so long ago Detroit was deep down the standings. Takes almost nothing to move up in the East.

Basically it is Caps and everybody else. With Minny beating out Colorado there are no weak clubs in the WC playoffs.

Last night Kings get a pick your poison of either Sharks or Nashville. That's what they get to consider while thinking about finishing first.

Tampa stumbles into playoffs, have an offseason, lose the Race with Florida and in so doing are gifted the Detroit Red Wings as first round opponents. An opponent any WC team would love to face.
 

Zaddy

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How is it comedic. Any Decent WC team would've destroyed the limping Rangers last season. MSL was injured and ancient as a fossil. Zuccarello was injured. The rangers looked slow and tired as molasses. Its only the Lightnings fault, through their inconsistent play, and not being all that great, that they took that long disposing of the Rangers. Fact of the matter is the Lightning were barely better than a pretty ordinary Rangers squad that had a less strong lineup than their SC run.

Doesn't mean they will just roll over and let Tampa win, or that Tampa can just win the series 4-0 by "being smart". It's the playoffs. A team like the Rangers aren't just going to roll over no matter how much you want that to be true.

Lets be clear here too. Last season you guys were saying Tampa is an ELITE Team, Reminiscent of the 80's Oilers (this sickening hyperbole actually stated) and that Tyler Johnson is an elite forward. These points were being foisted so ardently my comments that he is not we're considered "comedic gold"

I remember at the time saying Johnson would predictably deflate when closer NHL checking intervened. Now teams have finally figured out you just have to check the guy. He's a smurf and not a particularly good one. The MLS comparisons were rife last year..

When are you going to stop lumping me in with the guys who said that? I already adressed this last year and told you I never said anything of the sort. Why do you keep bringing this up? Is it because you don't have any better reason to and just love to argue with people? Because either you find posts of me saying that right now, or you stop with that nonsense. Thank you.

Also, I just wanted to point out how funny it is to see you harp on Johnson over and over again when you are the biggest defender on these boards of Yakupov and Gagner. Two guys you've used every excuse in the book for and who can't do nothing wrong in your eyes. You laugh at Johnson for how bad his point production has been this year, yet his 38 points is more than Yakupov has ever had in any season and only 11 points less than Gagner's all-time high in his 9 year NHL career, an all-time high that Johnson bested with his 50 points in his first full NHL season. Not to mention that neither of them has ever been close to hitting the 72 points Johnson did last year, or scored 20+ goals for that matter. Another thing that's funny is how you refer to Johnson as an injury prone smurf when both Yakupov and Gagner are small and have struggled with injuries at times too. Is the irony of all this completely lost on you?
 

Zaddy

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Is it that time of year again? Everyone bringing out the same old tired and battered arguments and foaming at the mouth.

Just enjoy some great hockey folks. Playoffs is so much fun, even if the good guys are not in yet again.

Yeah, my post had nothing to do with this but somehow I got dragged into an argument I'm already sick and tired of. I wanted to discuss what the Blues might do if they have another first round exit...
 

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Doesn't mean they will just roll over and let Tampa win, or that Tampa can just win the series 4-0 by "being smart". It's the playoffs. A team like the Rangers aren't just going to roll over no matter how much you want that to be true.



When are you going to stop lumping me in with the guys who said that? I already adressed this last year and told you I never said anything of the sort. Why do you keep bringing this up? Is it because you don't have any better reason to and just love to argue with people? Because either you find posts of me saying that right now, or you stop with that nonsense. Thank you.

Also, I just wanted to point out how funny it is to see you harp on Johnson over and over again when you are the biggest defender on these boards of Yakupov and Gagner. Two guys you've used every excuse in the book for and who can't do nothing wrong in your eyes. You laugh at Johnson for how bad his point production has been this year, yet his 38 points is more than Yakupov has ever had in any season and only 11 points less than Gagner's all-time high in his 9 year NHL career, an all-time high that Johnson bested with his 50 points in his first full NHL season. Not to mention that neither of them has ever been close to hitting the 72 points Johnson did last year, or scored 20+ goals for that matter. Another thing that's funny is how you refer to Johnson as an injury prone smurf when both Yakupov and Gagner are small and have struggled with injuries at times too. Is the irony of all this completely lost on you?

Gagner and Yak are more talented hockey players than Johnson and why they were drafted very high and Johnson.

But Johnson had every advantage of a slow and measured development and then getting the chance to tag team his AHL head coach up into the show. Which is a near perfect opportunity for any AHL player. But the magic of even that has worn off. Like I said give it a couple years and people will forget who Tyler Johnson is.

Yak is supremely talented and will score a fair amount somewhere, he hasn't had anywhere near the same good fit here. Gagner? Harder to say. Some of the worst things in hockey have happened to him and striking me as a player that may decide to retire early if he can't get a look at a topsix role somewhere. The talent is undeniable.
 

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Yeah, my post had nothing to do with this but somehow I got dragged into an argument I'm already sick and tired of. I wanted to discuss what the Blues might do if they have another first round exit...

For sure, and I could be wrong, but weren't you the one arguing with me last year that the Blues/Sharks aren't very good because they never go anywhere.

Look what they have to contend with. In the first round.

Fact of the matter is being in a division with the Black Hawks flat out sucks. That's just the way it is.

The NHL needs to do something about that divisional playoff config as well. Shouldn't be 2nd and 3rd in division playing each other every year.

Would actually welcome interlocking playoffs like in the 80's. 1 vs 16 and so on regardless of conference.
 

Zaddy

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Gagner and Yak are more talented hockey players than Johnson and why they were drafted very high and Johnson.

But Johnson had every advantage of a slow and measured development and then getting the chance to tag team his AHL head coach up into the show. Which is a near perfect opportunity for any AHL player. But the magic of even that has worn off. Like I said give it a couple years and people will forget who Tyler Johnson is.

Yak is supremely talented and will score a fair amount somewhere, he hasn't had anywhere near the same good fit here. Gagner? Harder to say. Some of the worst things in hockey have happened to him and striking me as a player that may decide to retire early if he can't get a look at a topsix role somewhere. The talent is undeniable.

You just perfectly made my case for me. You think Gagner and Yakupov are more talented than Johnson despite the fact they COMBINED for 39 points this year, 1 more point than Johnson who you think had a horrible year. Do you not realize how dumb that sounds? And you perfectly show in this post everything I said about the lengths you go to just to make excuses for these guys but apparently Johnson isn't worth the same treatment, despite the fact that he ACTUALLY have showed that he can produce at an elite rate, sustainable or not, which neither Gagner nor Yak have ever done. If I didn't know any better I would've thought you were trolling me just now.

For sure, and I could be wrong, but weren't you the one arguing with me last year that the Blues/Sharks aren't very good because they never go anywhere.

Nope, never said that.
 

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You just perfectly made my case for me. You think Gagner and Yakupov are more talented than Johnson despite the fact they COMBINED for 39 points this year, 1 more point than Johnson who you think had a horrible year. Do you not realize how dumb that sounds? And you perfectly show in this post everything I said about the lengths you go to just to make excuses for these guys but apparently Johnson isn't worth the same treatment, despite the fact that he ACTUALLY have showed that he can produce at an elite rate, sustainable or not, which neither Gagner nor Yak have ever done. If I didn't know any better I would've thought you were trolling me just now.



Nope, never said that.

Theres nothing dumb about differentiating talent from development and time and place. Of course Yak and Gagner were more talented picks. Its why they were among top picks in the entire world. Had Johnson been in Oilers org I don't think his trajectory would be all that different from an Arcobello. Actually a pretty good comparable AHL wise.

Anyway Gagner got 49pts in the NHL as an 18 year old several years before Johnson was good enough to play here at a much older entry age.

Finally, you seem to have difficulty with attribution. Gagner got the 49pts playing with slugs like Nillson and Cogliano. Gagner drove almost everything that happened on that line. More recently here Gagner played with not ready for NHLplayers like Omark and MPS.
Johnson has played with much better players. Kucherov is kicking it out of the ballpark this season. How many pts do you think a player like Gagner could get passing to players like kucherov, Hedman, etc.

Johnson had one really hot year in which he had a lot of help. A lot of linemate help and a lot of D help to get the production he did. Which will never be repeated as I said last year when we were having this chat.
 

Spawn

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Anyone else think that this might be the year the Blues get out of the 1st round?

Last three years the Blackhawks have won it twice and made it to game 7 of the conference finals the other year. I wonder if fatigue sets in early for them in this playoffs. The Blues are due for a series win or two.
 

McPuritania

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Anyone else think that this might be the year the Blues get out of the 1st round?

Last three years the Blackhawks have won it twice and made it to game 7 of the conference finals the other year. I wonder if fatigue sets in early for them in this playoffs. The Blues are due for a series win or two.

I would love it if the Hawks got bounced in the first round.
 

Philly85*

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Wow, I'm ****ing chapped, just spent the past hour writing an articulate response on here about Ovy, Datsyuk and the STL/CHI series, om my ipad, went to a different tab for 30 seconds, came back, the pages reloaded with all my text disappeared. Absolutely enraging. Oh well. Just wanted to say yadda yadda Ovy one of the best if not the best of all time, hope he wins a Cup, been a pleasure to watch etc.

And that Datsyuk is probably a top 3 favourite player all time for me, commented on his skill level and the way he could dummy multiple players on a single play, at least once per game in his prime. Dude was poetry on ice. Style & substance. And by all accounts an awesome human. He will be missed. Only player from another team who's jersey I have. Can't say enough good things.

Anyone else think that this might be the year the Blues get out of the 1st round?

Last three years the Blackhawks have won it twice and made it to game 7 of the conference finals the other year. I wonder if fatigue sets in early for them in this playoffs. The Blues are due for a series win or two.

Dont blame the Hawks if they fold but they have even better depth than last season and a few new guys who will be hungry and help push the old group over the hump again IMO. Hawks are in the heads of St. Louis. CHI in 6.

And that will be it for Hitch and probably some a core piece or two of that group. They still dont have a #1 centre and that grinding style they've played for so long during the regular season makes things even more difficult for them come playoffs IMO, when they face adversity. They have only one style of play.
 
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