Around the League - 15/16 Edition: Part 4

[The Nuge]

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Good. He deserves it. Every game for that. That will make him think again doing something stupid like that.

Might not stay at 20. Wideman can now go to a neutral arbitrator.

Ahhhhahahahahahaha. Enjoy your suspension you *******.

Wonder how something like that gets released to the media in the first place.

It really went that far?

Congenital stupidity and Calgary Flames is my guess..

Plus they lost Ramo for the entire season. Needs knee surgery too...

Good thing they have Brossoit- AHL All star and great in NHL play.... aaaah wait nvm

Scrivens has entered the "Dive of the Season" race.

Pretty good night on the OOT.

The Flames "best D in the west" is looking really sharp tonight.

Hiller is brutal. Calgary's defense isn't much better either. Lots of money tied up there too.

Interesting. Jagr has more career GWG's than the Oilers have ROW's since we drafted Hall. Just need 4 more though to make that not true any more. Unless Jagr gets more GWG's that is and stays ahead. Not sure which is more likely at this point.

I really hope they sign Ramo as their starter going into next year. Before he got hurt they were starting to tell themselves that he was starter material.

I'm not really sure who else they can go after.

Bet they wish they had Brossoit.

Now Eric Francis is going on about how much bad luck the Flames have had with injuries.

Cry me a river.

Cam Ward and James Reimer are both UFAs. Frederik Andersen is an RFA and might be available through trade. No idea who else is out there.

I see Reimer and Andersen resigning. The Ducks have a ton of cap room and Gibson is still young, I don't see why it would make sense for them to deal Andersen yet unless they got a really good return. They need scoring and the Flames don't have any to give away.

Ward might make sense, but he's not that good either.

In any case, this makes me happy.

Maybe the Flames will trade for Bernier. It has been rumoured for a few months now. He's signed through next season too.

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[BlackDogg]

The more i look at the Wideman hit, the more i think the suspension should actually be increased.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

Personally don't care, I know when I was younger and played football the greatest feeling is when the ref got in the way he got knocked down hard, and everyone to a man would admit it felt pretty good.

It's just a newer baby soft generation. I enjoyed more for the fact that refs in all sports think there the show, and people pay to see them. In all my life I have never seen as much games be decided by refs.

I think refs often have to shrug things off - should Wideman been suspended - No.
He should have gotten a 10 minute penalty and treat the penalty as if it's another player with the intent to injure, that's all.

 

[doulos]

Good to see Wideman get what he deserved. Lucky he didn't get more.

 

[Aceboogie]

Personally don't care, I know when I was younger and played football the greatest feeling is when the ref got in the way he got knocked down hard, and everyone to a man would admit it felt pretty good.

It's just a newer baby soft generation. I enjoyed more for the fact that refs in all sports think there the show, and people pay to see them. In all my life I have never seen as much games be decided by refs.

I think refs often have to shrug things off - should Wideman been suspended - No.
He should have gotten a 10 minute penalty and treat the penalty as if it's another player with the intent to injure, that's all.

But that's when you were a teen, not a grown 30 year old man. Im sure youd feel some remorse if you concussed a defenseless ref (lineman to be exact). I don't think it is a baby soft generation in this instance. There was 20 game suspensions in the 80s for similar plays on defenseless players

And with the complete lack of remorse and blantant lies by Wideman, id love to see him out for rest of season. Total POS

 

[BlowbyBlow]

But that's when you were a teen, not a grown 30 year old man. Im sure youd feel some remorse if you concussed a defenseless ref (lineman to be exact). I don't think it is a baby soft generation in this instance. There was 20 game suspensions in the 80s for similar plays on defenseless players

And with the complete lack of remorse and blantant lies by Wideman, id love to see him out for rest of season. Total POS

It depends on how you look at it.

Is there intent to injure or malice involved or is it a sudden lack of clarity and decision making by Wideman. I choose the latter.

The other part is how badly hurt was the referee. In my opinion the NHL wanted to make it - this is what it is and our referees are held to a higher standard. Think of it this way if a regular player was there and he hit them there would have been no penalty/suspension afterwords. Especially if that player was still in the game.

To me it's 2 things: bad decision by Wideman, but it's also the NHL trying to make a statement. I think you simply have a 10 minute misconduct or ejection.

It's to much about unreacting, then overreacting which the NHL does way to much.

 

[Mr Positive]

I think it would be good to have a suspension not automatically reduce after an appeal. It seems whenever a suspension gets appealed, it at least gets reduced. A big one was that Torres hit on Hossa that got a big reduction. The league should have put their foot down on that one too.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

It depends on how you look at it.

Is there intent to injure or malice involved or is it a sudden lack of clarity and decision making by Wideman. I choose the latter.

The other part is how badly hurt was the referee. In my opinion the NHL wanted to make it - this is what it is and our referees are held to a higher standard. Think of it this way if a regular player was there and he hit them there would have been no penalty/suspension afterwords. Especially if that player was still in the game.

To me it's 2 things: bad decision by Wideman, but it's also the NHL trying to make a statement. I think you simply have a 10 minute misconduct or ejection.

It's to much about unreacting, then overreacting which the NHL does way to much.

It's not overreacting.

There is a legit rule in the rule book for it with a minimum suspension tacked onto it. The NHLPA agreed to the rules.

This wasn't one of the money collisions with refs we see all the time that take place in games with players making plays.

This wasn't him bumping into the ref accidentally.

This was him cross checking the ref into the boards and giving 0 ****s.

Wideman wasn't calling it an accident. He is saying because he had a concussion it's not his fault and shouldn't be held liable. Problem is he didn't go for a look after he got hit, his team didn't go thru with concussion protocol and the only "evidence" they have is his word and the fact he got hit.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I think it would be good to have a suspension not automatically reduce after an appeal. It seems whenever a suspension gets appealed, it at least gets reduced. A big one was that Torres hit on Hossa that got a big reduction. The league should have put their foot down on that one too.

It's different in this case as the rule they accused him of is a minimum suspension. The NHLPA weren't going for a reduction. They went for 0 saying he shouldnt be held accountable because he maybe had a concussion they can't prove.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

It's not overreacting.

There is a legit rule in the rule book for it with a minimum suspension tacked onto it. The NHLPA agreed to the rules.

This wasn't one of the money collisions with refs we see all the time that take place in games with players making plays.

This wasn't him bumping into the ref accidentally.

This was him cross checking the ref into the boards and giving 0 ****s.

Wideman wasn't calling it an accident. He is saying because he had a concussion it's not his fault and shouldn't be held liable. Problem is he didn't go for a look after he got hit, his team didn't go thru with concussion protocol and the only "evidence" they have is his word and the fact he got hit.

Yea, to me this is too much more of an indictment on the NHL and specifically the Flames and any team going forward with the concussion protocol.

I'm not a Flames btw, but if you look at Wideman on the bench the first 30 seconds after the hit he was dazed, he didn't look over and was looking down. This wasn't hey look guys what I did that felt good.

Because he did that they looked at it as being intent to injure, and possibly faking a concussion by returning to the ice so fast after

This is the Flames organization and Wideman being suspended at the same time. The only thing is the Flames should have been who got fined, and Wideman should have been ejected.

My opinion is leagues get suspensions wrong all the time. I feel no matter what happens you eject a player if there is intent regardless of what happened.
Take things into context the guy had his head down skating all the way to the bench he didn't even notice the ref till the last second.

This wasn't a guy taking a run at someone it was a lack of clarity, simple as that.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You don't hit the refs. End of story.

 

[oXo Cube]

The league was clearly under a fair amount of pressure from the Officials union to issue a harsh punishment over this. It will be much easier for the league to go to them and say 'Hey guys, we had your back, take it up with them' if an arbitrator lowers this suspension instead of the NHL.

I think the suspension was justified regardless but there was 0 chance Bettman was ever going to lower the length. He took a week to make the decision just to pretend he was taking it seriously.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

You don't hit the refs. End of story.

I get that but it really is did he intend to do it or was it a guy scrambling back to the bench to get his head back in the game.

I have played sports and there was times I didn't know how the hell I got back.

To me it's a common play made at the bench where you feel an opposing player is impeding your ability to get back. I would feel the same if he was going diagonally, laterally or whatever way skating he didn't go out of his way to hit him, much more than see the ref at the last second.

I see how they view it that he came back on the ice, seemed able to play, but in those instantaneous moments it doesn't look like much more than that.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Yea, to me this is too much more of an indictment on the NHL and specifically the Flames and any team going forward with the concussion protocol.

I'm not a Flames btw, but if you look at Wideman on the bench the first 30 seconds after the hit he was dazed, he didn't look over and was looking down. This wasn't hey look guys what I did that felt good.

Because he did that they looked at it as being intent to injure, and possibly faking a concussion by returning to the ice so fast after

This is the Flames organization and Wideman being suspended at the same time. The only thing is the Flames should have been who got fined, and Wideman should have been ejected.

My opinion is leagues get suspensions wrong all the time. I feel no matter what happens you eject a player if there is intent regardless of what happened.
Take things into context the guy had his head down skating all the way to the bench he didn't even notice the ref till the last second.

This wasn't a guy taking a run at someone it was a lack of clarity, simple as that.

Yes but it wasn't a guy who just bumped into a ref. It was a guy who fully extended his arms and cross checked the ref.

They do get suspensions wrong. You could argue it was accidental and then by the actually NHL rule book it would only be a minimum 10 game suspension. I welcome that arguement.

However the NHLPA is arguing that because he was concussed he should get 0 games as he is not responsible for his actions which is a dangerous thought.

It could give players the mindset that. If my head gets hit i can do whatever i want to a ref or other player, cry concussion and get away with it

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I get that but it really is did he intend to do it or was it a guy scrambling back to the bench to get his head back in the game.

I have played sports and there was times I didn't know how the hell I got back.

To me it's a common play made at the bench where you feel an opposing player is impeding your ability to get back. I would feel the same if he was going diagonally, laterally or whatever way skating he didn't go out of his way to hit him, much more than see the ref at the last second.

I see how they view it that he came back on the ice, seemed able to play, but in those instantaneous moments it doesn't look like much more than that.

If it was intentional rules state 20 games. If it was an accident it's 10 as none of it was following the play and it was a legit cross check.

If the NHLPA fought for a reduction and said he didn't intend to injure he would get away with 10 games most likely. Instead they argue you can't hold him accountable for his actions.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Wideman in his statement straight up said he knew it was the lines man and was simply trying to get him out of his way.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

Wideman in his statement straight up said he knew it was the lines man and was simply trying to get him out of his way.

If that's true then that with the text is an open shut case.

My opinion still stands that going forward the NHL can't simply be reactionary about calls, intent should serve more grounds, but player safety has to be considered heavily.

The thing is players will play through anything, you absolutely don't get to the highest level of play and not do that.

I don't know if any of you seen the recent CBC program on concussions and it had Dan Lacatoure saying when he got hit in preseason playing for the Oilers he had a concussion and didn't get to see the NHL for 2 years. The other player featured said for many games after a fight caused a concussion he couldn't remember any of the last remaining games in that season.

Even though Wideman admitted it I still give players the benefit of the doubt, everything happens quick and your head at the moment is reacting at rapid reflexes and not even taking account of what you are doing.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

If that's true then that with the text is an open shut case.

My opinion still stands that going forward the NHL can't simply be reactionary about calls, intent should serve more grounds, but player safety has to be considered heavily.

The thing is players will play through anything, you absolutely don't get to the highest level of play and not do that.

I don't know if any of you seen the recent CBC program on concussions and it had Dan Lacatoure saying when he got hit in preseason playing for the Oilers he had a concussion and didn't get to see the NHL for 2 years. The other player featured said for many games after a fight caused a concussion he couldn't remember any of the last remaining games in that season.

Even though Wideman admitted it I still give players the benefit of the doubt, everything happens quick and your head at the moment is reacting at rapid reflexes and not even taking account of what you are doing.

That's true. If he did have a concussion the Flames org is who he should be upset with. He got rung into the boards hard and if he was as clearly dizzy like he says he was then his team should of taken him for concussions tests as is protocol. If they did that and found concussion symptoms then he absolutely would not be suspended for long if at all.

The league can only take the evidence they had in hand. He skated up head up towards the bench, he sees the ref and instead of bumping into him or just putting his hands up, he braces himself and follows thru with a cross check and then continues onto the bench.

With that alone it looks very intentional unless he was concussed. And because no one took him to the dark room to get looked at or he apparently refused, no evidence was gathered. The league is trying to be cut and dry with rules that are clear cut.

Maybe he did have a concussion, but because there is zero proof of it as no tests were done the league can only base it on the video.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

The problem is if you always take the players word for it, you then have the refs wanting to strike because you aren't protecting them.

Refs are off limits in all sports. It's a written rule. If the contact happend while he was going for the puck. It's fine. It was a speed movie where he cross checked the ref and didn't look back. It doesn't look good in any way shape or form.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

That's true. If he did have a concussion the Flames org is who he should be upset with. He got rung into the boards hard and if he was as clearly dizzy like he says he was then his team should of taken him for concussions tests as is protocol. If they did that and found concussion symptoms then he absolutely would not be suspended for long if at all.

The league can only take the evidence they had in hand. He skated up head up towards the bench, he sees the ref and instead of bumping into him or just putting his hands up, he braces himself and follows thru with a cross check and then continues onto the bench.

With that alone it looks very intentional unless he was concussed. And because no one took him to the dark room to get looked at or he apparently refused, no evidence was gathered. The league is trying to be cut and dry with rules that are clear cut.

Maybe he did have a concussion, but because there is zero proof of it as no tests were done the league can only base it on the video.

I agree with all that you say, players are players, refs are refs and I do think that at least when it comes to my posts its more about player safety.

If I were shift the angle, how would the NHL react in that same situation if an opposing player absolutely levelled Wideman, and found out that Wideman had been hurt previously and perhaps had a concussion. Would there be a suspension to that player, would they say it was intent.

I hope you can see the position I have, while a player just like a ref can look or play defenseless. As a ref you also have to look at it in that instance as a total reactionary response to a player being leveled and coming back and participating in a total hockey play. That's a feeling I have had for a long time that because the ice unlike other sports has 100% used capacity where you can do anything there should be designated area where a player is just off limits.

To me I have always thought when it comes to players fighting around the bench, or all the little back and forth should be eliminated completely. I think the reaction by the ref and Wideman would be totally different the ref would have given the space for the player.

Hockey has funny rules in general - like a goalie loses a mask - whistle blowed, other player loses his helmet no stop. At the very least in that moment the player should be in a free zone where he's totally off limits from all contact. It's just to many ways in that situation something can go wrong.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I agree with all that you say, players are players, refs are refs and I do think that at least when it comes to my posts its more about player safety.

If I were shift the angle, how would the NHL react in that same situation if an opposing player absolutely levelled Wideman, and found out that Wideman had been hurt previously and perhaps had a concussion. Would there be a suspension to that player, would they say it was intent.

I hope you can see the position I have, while a player just like a ref can look or play defenseless. As a ref you also have to look at it in that instance as a total reactionary response to a player being leveled and coming back and participating in a total hockey play. That's a feeling I have had for a long time that because the ice unlike other sports has 100% used capacity where you can do anything there should be designated area where a player is just off limits.

To me I have always thought when it comes to players fighting around the bench, or all the little back and forth should be eliminated completely. I think the reaction by the ref and Wideman would be totally different the ref would have given the space for the player.

Hockey has funny rules in general - like a goalie loses a mask - whistle blowed, other player loses his helmet no stop. At the very least in that moment the player should be in a free zone where he's totally off limits from all contact. It's just to many ways in that situation something can go wrong.

Cross checking someone into the boards because they are in your way with their backs turned to you because your on your way to the bench would most likely be call a suspension or a fine. That isn't a common hockey occurance. The ref didn't give Wideman space because he was doing his job and following the play, which Wideman wasn't even part of.

And i agree lots can go wrong but that's a completely different conversation. The game needs some adjustments but this scenario is cut and dry and there are direct rules in the rule book agreed to by the players. Plain and simple. He broke that rule and is paying the price.

If he did that to another player he would of gotten a suspension guarenteed.

 

[Aerchon]

I am an old school Oiler fan who hates the Flames but yet think 20 games is too much.

1-5 would have been enough imo. 10 in sticking with the rules. 20 is just ridiculous.

He intentionally hit the guy who skated between him and the bench. No question about that.

I think he was angry and disoriented from a big hit to his head and probably would have hit his own mother in the same situation.

At no point does it look like he was trying to do anything but get to the bench. At no point does it look like he recognizes that was a ref.

His history suggestions it was a mistake. As does his reaction.

If that was an opposing player, like he probably thought it was, there would be no suspension.

 

[doulos]

It's not a player. It's not a child. It's not a tank. All of these what ifs are totally besides the point.

It was a ref and for that reason he got hammered. You don't touch a ref. If you do you get slammed and rightfully so. Easiest decision out there for the league.

 

[Aceboogie]

Calgary and JG working on massive deal that could pay him Tarasenko money

Meanwhile a superior player in Hall is sitting at 6M, what a steal

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I am an old school Oiler fan who hates the Flames but yet think 20 games is too much.

1-5 would have been enough imo. 10 in sticking with the rules. 20 is just ridiculous.

He intentionally hit the guy who skated between him and the bench. No question about that.

I think he was angry and disoriented from a big hit to his head and probably would have hit his own mother in the same situation.

At no point does it look like he was trying to do anything but get to the bench. At no point does it look like he recognizes that was a ref.

His history suggestions it was a mistake. As does his reaction.

If that was an opposing player, like he probably thought it was, there would be no suspension.

The rule explicitly States that if you hit a red with the intent to injure it's an automatic 20 games MINIMUM.

He straight up admitted he knew it was the ref and was only trying to get him out of his way. He acknowledges that he knew who it was.

Just because he would of hit anyone like that doesn't mean he is allowed to.

Looking at his history is why the suspension was only a 20 minimum. This is all in the rule book agreed to by the players.