Around Hockey XX (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[AZRoadRunner]

FO's make mistakes or misjudgments about players more often than you might think - especially with young guys. The WK and JAM situations are painful, but CBJ is far from alone. The genius behind the Vegas Knights, George McPhee, traded away Filip Forsberg to the Preds in 2013 for the great Marty Erat, thinking that Erat was the missing piece to get the Caps that long-awaited Cup. Caps fans have never forgiven him. It sucks, but it happens. You can't say that if a player blossoms with a new team, he would have grown similarly with his old team - too many variables to account for (new team, new system, new coaching, new linemates, etc). Sometimes you just have to move on.

 

[CBJx614]

At least we don't have 2 players on the first line from the ED...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Lots of chatter about Wild Bill and JAM, about how they have been put in a position to thrive in Vegas, and how that’s an organizational failure here in Cbus. But none about the person responsible for putting them in that position. And how Dougie Mac should have seen this coming.

 

[Jyrki]

Will the Caps really lose to the Bolts the same way we crashed out from the 1st round? Kick off with two road wins to give fans false hope...

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I really want to see Tampa Bay advance to play CBJ West in the SCF

 

[EspenK]

It would be one fast series.

 

[MAHJ71]

Yeah, at this point I'm pulling for Tampa Bay (my team before the CBJ were born) to make it to the SCF.

For the SCF, I just want to see a crazy series. I'm torn between VGK/TB if it comes to that.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I love going to Vegas. I may retire there. I loved that they got a hockey team, I knew the city would support them and it would be a success.

But.....I hate the Knights now. Hate 'em. 12 teams have played about 250 seasons of hockey and have never won The Cup. If they get one in season 1? Nah....not cheering for that at all.

Pretty sure I would feel differently if I was a fan of Chicago or the Pens. But my first favorite team was the Caps. Then the Sharks. Now, the Jackets are right there for me as well. I am 0-80 years in getting a Cup.

Goddamnit.

 

[Monk]

I love going to Vegas. I may retire there. I loved that they got a hockey team, I knew the city would support them and it would be a success.

But.....I hate the Knights now. Hate 'em. 12 teams have played about 250 seasons of hockey and have never won The Cup. If they get one in season 1? Nah....not cheering for that at all.

Pretty sure I would feel differently if I was a fan of Chicago or the Pens. But my first favorite team was the Caps. Then the Sharks. Now, the Jackets are right there for me as well. I am 0-80 years in getting a Cup.

Goddamnit.

I'm really torn. I hear you and feel a lot of what you said above. But objectively, I also just love the story. I feel good for the players (and coach!) and they absolutely deserve it. What it really boils down to is it doesn't feel like their fans deserve it... they haven't "suffered" like the rest of us. The good news is, it's mostly only downhill from here

 

[Viqsi]

The comparison I've seen that I really like is the 05/06 Carolina Hurricanes - rejects with a chip on their shoulder plus a clever coach who played on that and hot goaltending. That team did win the Cup... and then missed the playoffs for the next two seasons attempting to recapture that lightning in a bottle, got kicked out again in '09, and hasn't made it back since.

So, yeah, I'm thinking this offseason is when we'll really see McPhee earn his pay.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I'm really torn. I hear you and feel a lot of what you said above. But objectively, I also just love the story. I feel good for the players (and coach!) and they absolutely deserve it. What it really boils down to is it doesn't feel like their fans deserve it... they haven't "suffered" like the rest of us. The good news is, it's mostly only downhill from here

It's a great story, and if I was a fan of a team that had won before, I would really love it. But....I don't. So...I don't.

 

[CBJx614]

The comparison I've seen that I really like is the 05/06 Carolina Hurricanes - rejects with a chip on their shoulder plus a clever coach who played on that and hot goaltending. That team did win the Cup... and then missed the playoffs for the next two seasons attempting to recapture that lightning in a bottle, got kicked out again in '09, and hasn't made it back since.

So, yeah, I'm thinking this offseason is when we'll really see McPhee earn his pay.

What kind of contract do you think we'll be seeing from he who must not be named?

I mean he really only has this season to justify any kind of money, but on the other hand GMGM has a ton of cap space so i could see him just giving him a massive payday.


Wouldn't be shocked to see Fleury get a ma$$ive extension too.

 

[EspenK]

To repeat myself I say we offer sheet him at 8 mill for the 7 year max.

Seriously I think he has created a bit of a problem for McPhee. I'm guessing something similar to the JAM deal. 5.0 - 6 mill for 5 years or so. That would keep their top line in tact for the next 4 years.

Should be interesting.

 

[IceNeophyte]

To repeat myself I say we offer sheet him at 8 mill for the 7 year max.

Seriously I think he has created a bit of a problem for McPhee. I'm guessing something similar to the JAM deal. 5.0 - 6 mill for 5 years or so. That would keep their top line in tact for the next 4 years.

Should be interesting.

He's an RFA. This should make it harder to snatch him.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

To repeat myself I say we offer sheet him at 8 mill for the 7 year max.

Seriously I think he has created a bit of a problem for McPhee. I'm guessing something similar to the JAM deal. 5.0 - 6 mill for 5 years or so. That would keep their top line in tact for the next 4 years.

Should be interesting.

And give up 4 first round picks as compensation? No thanks...unless if this sort of idea would be to handcuff McPhee and give out a potentially bad contract if 100% matched.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

There's no reason to even discuss offer sheets. They never ever happen.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

The comparison I've seen that I really like is the 05/06 Carolina Hurricanes - rejects with a chip on their shoulder plus a clever coach who played on that and hot goaltending. That team did win the Cup... and then missed the playoffs for the next two seasons attempting to recapture that lightning in a bottle, got kicked out again in '09, and hasn't made it back since.

So, yeah, I'm thinking this offseason is when we'll really see McPhee earn his pay.

McPhee has earned his pay many times over already.

Amazing that someone could even suggest that! Especially someone who is an apologist for a failed GM like Howson and a Team President like Davidson who had one playoff series win in 12 or 13 years as an NHL team prez.

Cognitive Dissonance much?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Franchises which started with different expansion rules get a 5 year or so "whining window". The CBJ window closed over a decade ago. Getting pissed/jealous about the VGK is like blaming mommy for your shitty life when you're 50. Time to move on and take (or in this case give) responsibility to an organization's failures to their managements and not some set of rules which has zero effect upon the their current (lack of) competitiveness

 

[JacketFanInFL]

Vegas winning the cup would be Bettman's 3rd biggest failure, only behind the two lockouts.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Franchises which started with different expansion rules get a 5 year or so "whining window". The CBJ window closed over a decade ago. Getting pissed/jealous about the VGK is like blaming mommy for your ****ty life when you're 50. Time to move on and take (or in this case give) responsibility to an organization's failures to their managements and not some set of rules which has zero effect upon the their current (lack of) competitiveness

Because you can't both assign responsibility to your own organization and be jealous of another's success.

(I know, I know, effing middle ground again. Is there some sort of "whining window" for that, too?)

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Because you can't both assign responsibility to your own organization and be jealous of another's success.

(I know, I know, effing middle ground again. Is there some sort of "whining window" for that, too?)

Your WW is infinite. On everything.

Whine on, my man!

 

[cslebn]

Vegas winning the cup would be Bettman's 3rd biggest failure, only behind the two lockouts.

Why?

They paid the price (literally).

 

[cslebn]

The comparison I've seen that I really like is the 05/06 Carolina Hurricanes - rejects with a chip on their shoulder plus a clever coach who played on that and hot goaltending. That team did win the Cup... and then missed the playoffs for the next two seasons attempting to recapture that lightning in a bottle, got kicked out again in '09, and hasn't made it back since.

So, yeah, I'm thinking this offseason is when we'll really see McPhee earn his pay.

I think Carolina is an interesting comparison. Even if they can keep the group together and even if this is the new mean for all these players; I think there could still be a fallback. Teams like Vegas, Winnipeg, Pitt, etc are all fast with players that move the puck at high speeds with well defined systems. This is the new edge of the NHL. The league will catch up over the next couple years. That alone should knock down the VGK a few pegs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, I'm cheering for these guys. Aside from the fact Vegas is the closet NHL to my home they are just so much fun to watch play. As a fan of hockey I enjoy seeing them play, so yeah, go knights.

 

[blahblah]

lol @ what Vegas is doing. Geez. I'm sure there is something that can be learned here around the rest of the league. Not sure what that is, but there's a lesson here somewhere.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Your WW is infinite. On everything.

Whine on, my man!

It isn't my whining window I'm concerned about. I'll probably continue to examine the middle ground and I hope that after five years or so you'll get over it.