Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[herashak]

Domi + merkley + next years 1st(top 10 protected) for Hamilton + 3rd

 

[Lunatik]

Domi + merkley + next years 1st(top 10 protected) for Hamilton + 3rd

Please no.

While I can understand moving Hamilton (I don't want to), I don't think that is the type of deal you make. The only way you move Hamilton, is in a deal for a young top 6 forward, with top line potential. I think Domi maxes out as a 2nd liner personally. The only Coyote that would makme my ears perk up when it comes to Doughie, would be Keller.

 

[herashak]

Please no.

While I can understand moving Hamilton (I don't want to), I don't think that is the type of deal you make. The only way you move Hamilton, is in a deal for a young top 6 forward, with top line potential. I think Domi maxes out as a 2nd liner personally. The only Coyote that would makme my ears perk up when it comes to Doughie, would be Keller.

Domi put up 52 as a 21 year old. He’s nasty.

 

[Lunatik]

Domi put up 52 as a 21 year old. He’s nasty.

I think on a team with more offensive weapons he doesn't repeat those numbers. I have no issues acquiring Domi, but you don't give up a young 1st pairing defenseman for him, an undersized prospect that I don't think much of and a magic bean

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Dougie should be a Flame for life. Trade Stone. Let Kulak-Andersson be our 3rd pair. Have Fox be the first call up and play a year in the AHL.

 

[Anglesmith]

In an ideal world, sure, it'd be great to have a Kucherov on the top line. In the real world however, where scarcity and limited resources are actual concepts, the much, much bigger priority should be finding a second or third line right winger to upgrade Frolik or more critically, Hathaway.

It's myopic and patently unnecessary to focus getting Gaudreau an offensive bump when he's already on pace for 92 points with Ferland as the top line right winger for the vast majority of the season. As for Monahan, it seems like he's always going to be between 60 and 70 points regardless.

Teams need at least three scoring lines to be successful to today's NHL, not one or two.

I agree with you on this. Trading Ferland to replace Ferland is not a realistic solution to the team's problems. There's nothing wrong with targetting a top line RW, but a) in the sense of a player who can fit on the right side of the top line, not a top line player in his own right and b) with the idea that Ferland being bumped down the lineup improves our production from the bottom-6.

 

[DFF]

I agree with you on this. Trading Ferland to replace Ferland is not a realistic solution to the team's problems. There's nothing wrong with targetting a top line RW, but a) in the sense of a player who can fit on the right side of the top line, not a top line player in his own right and b) with the idea that Ferland being bumped down the lineup improves our production from the bottom-6.

Well, trading Ferland because he is one of the few players on the team that have some trade value and dont forget he is a UFA year after next

This team does not have lots of tradable assets

 

[Skobel24]

Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau
Bennett - Backlund - Frolik
Mangiapane/Versteeg - Jankowski - Ferland
Stajan/Lazar - Shore - Brouwer

If the Flames can land a UFA, that's what I'm hoping to see. Tkachuk would fit the top line well, Bennett gets top 6 minutes and can develop further as not only a LW, but a defensively as well, and it brings a bit more versatility to the third line.

I'd be open to bringing Versteeg back for the 3rd line if Mangiapane isn't ready. Hathaway (nothing against him) is 100% expendable and not worth using a roster spot on.

 

[FerklundCGY]

[MOD] even some of our players like Hamonic are now mentioning words like "analytically" and "Corsi" and how having good Corsi generally means you're outplaying the opponent.

They're learning

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Yeah, cold streaks are a thing that no player in this league are immune to.

I really don't get this obsession with the top line right wing spot when the problem is clearly depth scoring. I mean, seriously, feel free to list all the teams with three point per game (or whatever crazy standard people expect) first liners playing together.

When a cold streak turns into multiple months, it becomes an Ice Age. Since the new year Ferland has been terrible. I like Ferland, I'm not even trying to pile on him. I'd even keep him on the top line. Just saying let's not act like he's been snakebitten or something for a couple weeks. The guy has been abysmal and ghostlike for the better part of the three months.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I agree with you on this. Trading Ferland to replace Ferland is not a realistic solution to the team's problems. There's nothing wrong with targetting a top line RW, but a) in the sense of a player who can fit on the right side of the top line, not a top line player in his own right and b) with the idea that Ferland being bumped down the lineup improves our production from the bottom-6.

I don't think you can have it both ways in the long-term due to the cap implications of bringing in a 'top-6' RW and signing UFA Ferland.

 

[Body Checker]

I would like us to target Palmieri or Lindholm to complete our top 9 without subtracting from the top 9.

Gaudreau, Monohan, Bennett, Tkachuk, Jankowski, Backlund, Frolik, Ferland.................that's 8.....................add one more to that group and keep our top 4 D and Mike Smith and things will turn around for us next year by 8 points at same time next year. And that's with Gulutzan.

 

[Anglesmith]

I don't think you can have it both ways in the long-term due to the cap implications of bringing in a 'top-6' RW and signing UFA Ferland.

I'm not sure if we need both down the road, though.

 

[Baxterman]

I have no problem moving Ferland because he has shown zero ability to create offense and is a total product of that top line. I think there are a lot of other guys that we could slot in and do at minimum as good if not a better job. Some guys might even be able to help out Monahan and Gaudreau when they are on a cold streak or off game rather than just going cold with them waiting for them to set him up.

That said I think if we are able to move him the move should be to try and get someone to play on a 2nd scoring line with Tkachuk and Bennett. The dream of a super top line I don't think is needed and certainly not as much as a guy that can help create a 2nd scoring line.

The fact that Ferland is not a good enough player to fit on that 2nd line kind of shows how limited he is to leeching off Monahan and Gaudreau.

I am not sure what kind o value we could get for him but if he could bring back an offensively talented player in return (preferably a rhs c) then I think you have to make that deal in a heartbeat.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm not sure if we need both down the road, though.

I agree, which is why I would be alright trading Ferland for the right piece.

 

[Anglesmith]

I agree, which is why I would be alright trading Ferland for the right piece.

But why now? Why not have as much time with both as possible and give prospects additional time to be ready to replace one of them?

I just don't think swapping Ferland's handedness is, itself, the answer. And there would definitely be a risk of getting a guy who then turns out to be worse.

 

[InfinityIggy]

But why now? Why not have as much time with both as possible and give prospects additional time to be ready to replace one of them?

I just don't think swapping Ferland's handedness is, itself, the answer. And there would definitely be a risk of getting a guy who then turns out to be worse.

That's a fair point. I think primarily one of the reasons is simply because we don't have a lot of good trade chips. Ferland is probably one of the better roster players we could offer up without crippling us at another position. Brodie might be another.

 

[Anglesmith]

That's a fair point. I think primarily one of the reasons is simply because we don't have a lot of good trade chips. Ferland is probably one of the better roster players we could offer up without crippling us at another position. Brodie might be another.

I just have my doubts that a hockey trade is the way we want to go. I think we need to cheap out right now. We should be looking at value plays where a player may need a fresh start. Then we can look to buy from our defensive prospect depth. The problem is really what Calculon indicated. Right now we're a very top-heavy club that gets a ton of offence from the top line, a reasonable number of cameos from the second line, and very sparse production from the bottom 6. How does changing Ferland to a RHS affect that?

 

[Baxterman]

Domi + merkley + next years 1st(top 10 protected) for Hamilton + 3rd

Maybe I do that replacing Brodie with Hamilton and taking out the 3rd but not a chance I move Hamilton without getting back a clear cut top 6 goal scoring right wing around the same age (and even then I don't trade him) and Domi is not that and Merley and a protected 1st isn't close to enough to make up the difference.

 

[Baxterman]

I just have my doubts that a hockey trade is the way we want to go. I think we need to cheap out right now. We should be looking at value plays where a player may need a fresh start. Then we can look to buy from our defensive prospect depth. The problem is really what Calculon indicated. Right now we're a very top-heavy club that gets a ton of offence from the top line, a reasonable number of cameos from the second line, and very sparse production from the bottom 6. How does changing Ferland to a RHS affect that?

If the right hand shot that we get back can do more to contribute than Ferland then he could be a part of a new "2nd" line with Tkachuk that helps spread the scoring out more.

But I agree just swapping Ferland out on the top line for another player still keeps us too top heavy.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I just have my doubts that a hockey trade is the way we want to go. I think we need to cheap out right now. We should be looking at value plays where a player may need a fresh start. Then we can look to buy from our defensive prospect depth. The problem is really what Calculon indicated. Right now we're a very top-heavy club that gets a ton of offence from the top line, a reasonable number of cameos from the second line, and very sparse production from the bottom 6. How does changing Ferland to a RHS affect that?

Well, my suggestion isn't really to do with Ferland's handedness. He can play RW just fine as a LHS. It's more to do with my belief that he just is not a good enough player to be an everyday Top 6 option.

If we can add without having to making a 'hockey' deal, then that is great. I just am not sure I see it as being realistic at this point.

 

[Anglesmith]

Well, my suggestion isn't really to do with Ferland's handedness. He can play RW just fine as a LHS. It's more to do with my belief that he just is not a good enough player to be an everyday Top 6 option.

If we can add without having to making a 'hockey' deal, then that is great. I just am not sure I see it as being realistic at this point.

I think it's unrealistic to expect our top line to improve on the percentage of our goals it generates- it's already at the top of the league. Having better players on a line doesn't always lead to better results from the line as a whole. I think they have a good fit there when everyone is healthy.

 

[Anglesmith]

I think we should just do things like in NHL '03. Trade Brouwer for someone who is 1-2 overall points better than Brouwer straight-up. Then trade that player for a guy who is another 1-2 overall points better, etc. Turning Brouwer into Crosby would be good for the bottom-6 production, I think.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think it's unrealistic to expect our top line to improve on the percentage of our goals it generates- it's already at the top of the league. Having better players on a line doesn't always lead to better results from the line as a whole. I think they have a good fit there when everyone is healthy.

Again though, I’m not focused on the 1st line specifically. My issue with Ferland is he would be a really poor fit on the 2nd line, in my opinion. I think you could take a reasonably good player like Frolik, and have him on the 1st line, and find a goal scoring threat to play on the 2nd line. Or, swap them when the situation calls for it. And yeah, if we can add that piece without moving Ferland, and play him on the 3rd line then that would be even better.

I just don’t feel confident in the idea of locking Ferland up long term to be that top 6 guy.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

When a cold streak turns into multiple months, it becomes an Ice Age. Since the new year Ferland has been terrible. I like Ferland, I'm not even trying to pile on him. I'd even keep him on the top line. Just saying let's not act like he's been snakebitten or something for a couple weeks. The guy has been abysmal and ghostlike for the better part of the three months.

Ferland has 5g 17p in 28gp since the new year, with all but one of those points coming at ES...