Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: I can't believe it's not butter, I can't believe we didn't get Ryan Hartman.

[DFF]

I think it'd be cheaper to acquire someone like Virtanen or Ho-Sang.

Like we got Lazar or Shinkaruk?
How is that working out so far?

 

[Mobiandi]

I'd rather not take on any more reclamation projects. Stick to cheap players that are done developing and can contribute at an NHL level

 

[CraigsList]

Lets just say the Oilers are a prime example of why I'm leery of acquiring Isles prospects that haven't lived up to expectations yet.

Well we're not trading Gaudreau for Ho-Sang, so I don't get where you're getting at. Our GM is not that dumb.

 

[CraigsList]

Like we got Lazar or Shinkaruk?
How is that working out so far?

Ho-Sang is doing just fine in his development. Not to mention, he's a .5 PPG player with such little ice time. I didn't like Lazar or Shinkaruk as pick ups, they proved nothing in the NHL.

 

[Baxterman]

Like we got Lazar or Shinkaruk?
How is that working out so far?

Fine

 

[DFF]

Fine

Cool let me book my playoff tickets


Point is this team needs more than rethread that didn't work for loser team

 

[Baxterman]

Cool let me book my playoff tickets


Point is this team needs more than rethread that didn't work for loser team

So you expected Lazar and Shinkaruk to carry the team to the play-offs.

The moves worked out fine because we gave up nothing to get little back. I didn't say they were home run moves just fine.

The team is better with Lazar on it now and going forward and Shinkaruk for Granlund was meh for meh.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Well we're not trading Gaudreau for Ho-Sang, so I don't get where you're getting at. Our GM is not that dumb.

Okay? I didn't say Gaudreau did I? Seems a very aggressive stance to take. Oilers moved a pair of draft picks for Reinhart, which was my reference. Not that the Eberle deal is working out either.

Given that we gave up a 2nd for Lazar which was overkill at the time and looks even more so now, I don't know if I agree with you.

But it was mostly a joke about how trading for Isles prospects is a risky business. Worked out great for some (Minnesota) and not so good for others (Edmonton).

 

[Dack]

Okay? I didn't say Gaudreau did I? Seems a very aggressive stance to take. Oilers moved a pair of draft picks for Reinhart, which was my reference. Not that the Eberle deal is working out either.

Given that we gave up a 2nd for Lazar which was overkill at the time and looks even more so now, I don't know if I agree with you.

But it was mostly a joke about how trading for Isles prospects is a risky business. Worked out great for some (Minnesota) and not so good for others (Edmonton).

It's a case by case basis. Ho Sang is interesting because he has skill and high potential. Virtanen is a bottom 6 guy there isn't much of a point in getting him unless he's really cheap.

The 2nd for Lazar was overkill because of who it was for. We traded a 2nd for a guy who's best case scenario was a 3rd liner and is likely not going to be anything other than a 4th liner. If we traded for a high potential player and they didn't work out then it sucks but at least the bet made sense. I still like the Granlund-Shinkaruk trade even though we lost it. We traded garbage for a young guy having a good season in the AHL and who was a draft faller.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Silfverberg, Stone, Miller and Simmonds should be our targets.

 

[Fig]

I disagree; I don't think we can blame coaches for him having his head up his ass in the offensive zone all the time.

@Fig: In regard to Bennett, at least, playing off the rush is his weakest offensive point. At least sometimes this season he's looked good cycling (with Janko and Jagr); on the rush his feet are moving too fast for his brain and he ends up making a failed pass or failed toe drag (or if he decides to switch it up he might just skate right past the net). *Caveat: obviously he makes a nice play sometimes, but the majority of the time he needs a huge amount of space to do it - more than you're normally going to get on NHL ice.

As with any Flames player I'd love for him to prove me wrong, but Bennett has a lot of the same issues now that he did as a rookie. That's not a coaching issue, in my opinion.

That's fair, but playing a rush style inside a cycle styled system doesn't sound like a recipe for success. I think he'd be one nasty and excellent net front presence if asked to one trick pony that role, but then you'd need to surround him with passers.

A "Sam, Sam, but different, but still Sam" trade is probably the only reason I'd consider moving Bennett if Buffalo is open to the idea, but I honestly would much rather watch a guy like Tippett or Sutter run this team for a season or two before moving any bodies elsewhere.

I agree he seems like he's going too fast for his brain to process at times. I honestly wonder at times if his IQ is fine, but if he'd benefit from slowing down his top speed (by tacking on a ton of weight for instance) and skating around as slow as Monahan. If we brought in Sutter to slow down the system, I think many players would actually benefit. Gully's system requires far too much acceleration from a stand still IMO and I think many of our players struggle with it.

 

[DFF]

So you expected Lazar and Shinkaruk to carry the team to the play-offs.

The moves worked out fine because we gave up nothing to get little back. I didn't say they were home run moves just fine.

The team is better with Lazar on it now and going forward and Shinkaruk for Granlund was meh for meh.

You are right but the point I am trying to make is the Flames need more than another Lazar type (Virtanen).....Unless somebody in the system steps up, we need to trade for some legit scorer and honestly I wouldnt bank on Bennett or Jankowski.

 

[Lunatik]

Lets just say the Oilers are a prime example of why I'm leery of acquiring Isles prospects that haven't lived up to expectations yet.

I think that says more about the Oilers inability to assess talent and make quality trades, than it says anything about acquiring underachieving prospects. I'd also argue that a 2nd year pro splitting his time between the AHL and NHL and still putting up 12 points in 22 games in the NHL isn't exactly underachieving.

 

[Baxterman]

You are right but the point I am trying to make is the Flames need more than another Lazar type (Virtanen).....Unless somebody in the system steps up, we need to trade for some legit scorer and honestly I wouldnt bank on Bennett or Jankowski.

I agree Virtanen isn't the solution for this team.

He might be worth it if the cost is cheap and I do think we need someone like him, whether through trade or internally, to come in and take a big jump offensively but trading for Virtanen should be very low on the priority list and a secondary or lower priority.

 

[Lunatik]

I would swap Kylington for Virtanen

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Do we even have cap space to add anyone? Pretty much has to be a hockey deal, doesn’t it.

Because after next year Tkachuk, Bennett, Jankowski and Ferland need to be re-signed.

The year after TJ and Dougie are UFAs.

 

[Mr Snrub]

Justin Williams looks like he has the durability to keep playing and given the shakeup in Carolina might be willing to go somewhere else. Would people be willing to sign him to a deal this offseason? If we make the playoffs next year some veteran leadership might be smart for the young guys.

 

[Calculon]

Flames currently have 62.5M allocated to 15 players for 2018-2019 with the likes of Jankowski, Kulak, Rittich, Gillies, Hathaway and Shore as the major RFA's to re-sign. None of the UFA's outside of maybe Versteeg (sheer desperation) should be brought back. So if the cap rises to 80M, that's 17.5M minus whatever the above guys go for (7-9M); or roughly 8-10M to upgrade/finish the roster. There's room for a Neal/JVR/Perron if need be.

After next season, while Tkachuk, Bennett and Ferland need new contracts, Smith's 4.25M is off the books. Plus, all of Frolik, Brouwer, Stone, Brodie and Hamonic will have just one year remaining on their deals. That means a Brouwer buyout is probable (saves 3M) while Frolik and Stone should be moved as prospects (Mangipane/Dube/Andersson) emerge (would potentially clear another 7.8m minus cost of replacement). And should other prospects like Kylington, Valimaki or Fox prove ready, Brodie or even Hamilton could also be moved, although that's extremely unlikely with Treliving's general cook until they burn approach.

Bennett shouldn't cost a whole lot to re-sign. Ferland will be in the ~4M range with another strong season; could be a little less if he's moved down the lineup. Tkachuk will likely end up somewhere between 6-6.75M. Lazar, meh. There's room for everyone (thanks in part to Bennett not breaking out yet; what a team player).

Basically, Treliving's managed the cap fairly well thus far, despite a stinker in Brouwer. The only issue could be goaltending if a cheap successor to Smith doesn't emerge and/or the cap doesn't rise enough for 2019-2020 to accommodate a 4M+ goalie.

I wouldn't mind Williams as a Versteeg replacement.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Silfverberg, Stone, Miller and Simmonds should be our targets.

Not Miller but otherwise I agree.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Not Miller but otherwise I agree.

Miller might be the best target in all honestly. I know he shoota left, but in all honestly he’s the exact kind of player we need and I think his cost would be the lowest.

Simmonds would cost Bennett+
Stone would cost Brodie, + some other really large pieces.
I would also love to get Silf.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Justin Williams looks like he has the durability to keep playing and given the shakeup in Carolina might be willing to go somewhere else. Would people be willing to sign him to a deal this offseason? If we make the playoffs next year some veteran leadership might be smart for the young guys.

I wanted him real bad when he was last a UFA. I think he'd be a huge bump to both our PP and our bottom six who could slide into our top six as needed.

 

[Lunatik]

I don't know why so many people are terrified of UFA contracts but willing to give up large chunks of our future to acquire players from other teams. No matter what you pay a premium to acquire a player, dollars/cap hit if it's a UFA and assets if it's via trade. I personally would rather risk a bad contract than pay out of our ass for a guy under contract.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I don't know why so many people are terrified of UFA contracts but willing to give up large chunks of our future to acquire players from other teams. No matter what you pay a premium to acquire a player, dollars/cap hit if it's a UFA and assets if it's via trade. I personally would rather risk a bad contract than pay out of our ass for a guy under contract.

I'm terrified of UFA contracts because I'm sick of hearing about how players (ie: Brouwer) aren't playing in line with what they're paid.

 

[Lunatik]

I'm terrified of UFA contracts because I'm sick of hearing about how players (ie: Brouwer) aren't playing in line with what they're paid.

just imagine the reaction if we trade Andersson or Bennett and they turn into an all-star, I think people bitching and crying about contracts would pale in comparison.

 

[Baxterman]

I don't know why so many people are terrified of UFA contracts but willing to give up large chunks of our future to acquire players from other teams. No matter what you pay a premium to acquire a player, dollars/cap hit if it's a UFA and assets if it's via trade. I personally would rather risk a bad contract than pay out of our ass for a guy under contract.

The list of guys that are overpaid on UFA deals is long, the list of guys that are overpaid and terrible is basically as long.

Contracts like Eriksson, Brouwer, Lucic, Ladd where the teams likely would put the guys in the AHL based on their performance if they were random player X are a real concern.

It seems like the league is moving towards youth and speed and the list of good UFA signings are pretty small. With how few guys end up making it to FA as well, it seems that the cost of giving up assets is worth it to get the better quality of player that you can through the trade route rather than FA.

Beyond that other than James Neal I am not sure there is a FA out there that I would want even on a reasonable deal. The available players just arent appealing at all even if you don't have to overpay.