Armchair GM IV: What do you mean Internal Cap???

[Mister Ed]

Maybe I'm just rambling on here, but what do you think are the chances that the Red Wings will need to send a player of value or a pick in a deal with Howard to unload his salary during the off season? A lot of RFAs will get paid and the Wings need the cap space.

I'm thinking the perfect fit would be Calgary, seeing as they are looking to add a starter, but I'm not so sure they would do a 1 for 1 - be it for a player or a pick - trade. On the Sirius/XM NHL Network Show, they were also discussing that Reimer would be a pretty attractive option for Calgary aswell, so it will most likely not be a Howard-or-bust situation.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Probably. and we need to retain

Let's see if he can keep up his good play though

 

[Run the Jewels]

Er... don't look now but both of those guys are already on the roster. You're going to need someone else to be "replacements", unless you plan to clone those guys.

Anyway Sheahan's 16 points and -13 aren't exactly what I'd call an Abdelkader replacement in the first place.

Like Abby he's been miscast as a center during the early part of his NHL career. Put him on Z and Pav's wing and he'll score just as much as Abdelkader, probably more. Nothing to get too worked up about, Holland will keep Abby on the roster for far too long, just like he did with our other "gritty" forward, Dan Cleary.

 

[BinCookin]

Maybe I'm just rambling on here, but what do you think are the chances that the Red Wings will need to send a player of value or a pick in a deal with Howard to unload his salary during the off season? A lot of RFAs will get paid and the Wings need the cap space.

I'm thinking the perfect fit would be Calgary, seeing as they are looking to add a starter, but I'm not so sure they would do a 1 for 1 - be it for a player or a pick - trade. On the Sirius/XM NHL Network Show, they were also discussing that Reimer would be a pretty attractive option for Calgary aswell, so it will most likely not be a Howard-or-bust situation.

Depends who else is on the market.

F. Andersen (ANA) is a better option.
Next best option.. Howard?

So are there 2 teams that just have absolutely nothing for goalies??

Calgary + ??

Toronto wont buy a good goalie yet. They are better off taking free cast offs and see how they do. Also having a bad goalie helps their tank.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Thats all well and good but the Okposos dont get in that type of position very often. And when they do your gonna pay an arm and a leg to compete with the other GM's for him. You either sign Abby to a few extra years or risk losing him and then like Eternal Sunshine said imagine this team without him. You think we look over powered some nights, the playoffs would be a dream without him. Had he hit the market, no way he signs for less somewhere else. Not a chance.

Honestly, I would have rather lose him to UFA (best would have been dealing him for a pick) than to have signed him for that contract. He just makes too much money for far too long for the type of player he his imho.

 

[icKx]

Maybe because they ARE trying to win the Stanley Cup.

Nope, certain erudite posters have set the record straight: their goal is to open the new arena with a borderline playoff team because that's what the top brass want and Holland knows it.

Leaked internal memos have yet to be forthcoming.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Like Abby he's been miscast as a center during the early part of his NHL career. Put him on Z and Pav's wing and he'll score just as much as Abdelkader, probably more. Nothing to get too worked up about, Holland will keep Abby on the roster for far too long, just like he did with our other "gritty" forward, Dan Cleary.

That's a nice thought but I'd like to see Sheahan prove it before I'm willing to get on his bandwagon.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Abby and Ericsson got money and term because they have the ability/ potential to do things almost no one else on the roster can do

win/ do damage in puck battles (especially along the boards where a lot of our players look out of their element), hold their ground, impose themselves physically, fight, stand up for teammates

I think I'd rather pony up another $1-2M and give Abby's contract to a guy like Lucic or someone of that ilk, but the reality is those guys aren't easy to acquire. Holland could have waited until free agency to try to sign Lucic to something like $6M (or more) long term, but if he swings and misses, then Abby has the team over the barrel in negotiations, assuming he hasn't already signed elsewhere. Plus he is a Michigan guy and knows our system and team well and is a good guy to have in general.

His contract isn't great at all because of how long he is going to be paid, Ericsson's seems borderline bad/ terrible some nights, and is frustrating in general with his decline in the last couple of years, but Detroit is already physically outmatched. Imagine a team without those guys.

You could still fault Holland and the scouting staff for not addressing the size issue in drafts or free agency throughout the last ~decade or so, because they've kind of put themselves in a corner by drafting so many small skilled players over the years, but it is the situation that has been present and I can't really fault the organization for valuing those guys.

I understand what you're saying and agree somewhat but it is telling when you realize that E is possibly the worst contract on the team and Abby will be there soon enough.

So what is worse, having to sign players who can help the team or anchoring the team with the 2 worst contracts they have?

 

[Kyleftlx]

Maybe because they ARE trying to win the Stanley Cup.

Which brings me back to my original point. If you want to win a cup, you have to be a really good hockey club. Part of becoming a really good hockey club is making risky moves like trading for roster upgrades. Holland could speed up his retool process and push this team forward so much faster if he pulled off a couple of really intelligent trades. That doesn't mean he has to trade away a Mantha level prospect. It does mean that he has to evaluate his players, though, and maybe part with a Brendan Smith type of player before the guy ends up scratched every night because Marchenko has passed him on the depth chart. Maybe dangle a Justin Abdelkader after a huge season rather than lock him up to a long term deal. There actually are teams that are willing to move out a quality player for a quantity return if that quantity has potential, and I would imagine after multiple AHL playoff runs + continuous success overseas from players within the organization, the Wings likely had some prospects that could have been packaged together.

I think what Holland is doing can work, but there's ways to speed up what he's doing and it seems like he is struggling with that. What happens if the team's entire 2015 draft ends up busting, or he goes through a couple of years drafting guys who never amount to nearly as strong and promising careers as they hoped for with their picks... Now you have set yourself back hard in this retool. Hopefully they continue to hit on first round picks and keeping their draft picks this year amounts to something.

 

[Claypool]

If you want to win a cup, you have to be a really good hockey club. Part of becoming a really good hockey club is making risky moves like trading for roster upgrades. Holland could speed up his retool process and push this team forward so much faster if he pulled off a couple of really intelligent trades.

The core of the team is too old to make risky moves by trading young players and prospects. Holland is doing the right thing by building through the draft and letting the young players grow with the vets. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are no longer worth investing in anymore. If they were in their prime like Kane and Toews are, then yes. By all means make those risky trades.

 

[Reddwit]

Hindsight is 20/20, but if we miss the playoffs this year or next, we're going to look back on this season with disdain. Shipping off Helm, Abby, Quincey, and maybe Smith, considering the lack of assets at this deadline, would've given us a super haul.

 

[Claypool]

What about just a deal like NYI trading a couple of prospects for Nick Leddy? Then trading a couple of seconds for Boychuk... Those two trades together made an immense impact in pushing NYI forward. And both of those trades are helping them long term as well. That offseason, Detroit signed Quincey and at the deadline used similar draft picks to bring in two rentals. It doesn't have to be a huuuuge blockbuster deal, but it would be nice to see Kenny roll the dice and bring in an impact player. I don't believe that you have to trade away a Larkin or a Mantha type of prospect to acquire a guy that can help your team compete, and when you have so much excess of near NHL ready prospects, it makes so much more sense to find a trading partner for some of them.

A final note: the "window" closed a while ago, but yet Holland signs guys like Green + Richards, Alfredsson + Weiss... The team was up against the cap for a couple of years. I don't know how you go up against the cap if you aren't trying to win a Stanley cup.

Nick Leddy and Johnny Boychuck aren't amazing defensemen. They aren't difference makers, anyway. Boychuck, specifically, wasn't more than a depth defenseman before he got to the Islanders. And his contract looks pretty awful right now. Same with Leddy. I wouldn't want either player on their current deals.

The Red Wings defense has scored 106 points so far this season, the same amount as the Islanders.

Green is a great signing because it's only for three years. It's low risk. Richards is a great stopgap player for a season while the younger players learn how to play center better. These one-year deals are exactly what they need to make the transition.

 

[Mister Ed]

I think the Wings should make a RFA offer sheet to Khokhlachev in the off season. With all the RFAs they need to sign, they might be in over their heads. At the very least, I think the should inquire for a trade. The kid is a dynamo.

I know, the Wings have their own cap issues but still, he's one guy that I would go hard for.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Nick Leddy and Johnny Boychuck aren't amazing defensemen. They aren't difference makers, anyway. Boychuck, specifically, wasn't more than a depth defenseman before he got to the Islanders. And his contract looks pretty awful right now. Same with Leddy. I wouldn't want either player on their current deals.

The Red Wings defense has scored 106 points so far this season, the same amount as the Islanders.

Green is a great signing because it's only for three years. It's low risk. Richards is a great stopgap player for a season while the younger players learn how to play center better. These one-year deals are exactly what they need to make the transition.

None of these things are true about either player.

 

[8snake]

None of these things are true about either player.

Leddy would be our best skating, most offensively gifted d-man right now and Boychuck would probably be our #1 d-man as I think he's more well rounded than DD and Kronwall is just about done.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Nick Leddy and Johnny Boychuck aren't amazing defensemen. They aren't difference makers, anyway. Boychuck, specifically, wasn't more than a depth defenseman before he got to the Islanders. And his contract looks pretty awful right now. Same with Leddy. I wouldn't want either player on their current deals.

The Red Wings defense has scored 106 points so far this season, the same amount as the Islanders.

Green is a great signing because it's only for three years. It's low risk. Richards is a great stopgap player for a season while the younger players learn how to play center better. These one-year deals are exactly what they need to make the transition.

None of these things are true about either player.

So Boychuck and Leddy are amazing defensemen?
How are they difference makers?
Would you want Boychuk on the Wings for 7 more years at 6 million per year?
The Leddy deal is fine, though.

Leddy would be our best skating, most offensively gifted d-man right now and Boychuck would probably be our #1 d-man as I think he's more well rounded than DD and Kronwall is just about done.

You really think Leddy is offensively more gifted than Mike Green and Kronwall? Leddy career PPG .4, Kronwall .5, Green .6. Since Leddy has been in the league Kronwall and Green are both .5. All three in their first 4 seasons in the NHL Green .73ppg, Kronwall .48, Leddy .42.

Highest scoring yes, but most offensively gifted no.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Scoring more isn't offensively gifted? This Mike Green is a shadow of that Mike Green.

Kronwall and Green are both well short of those PPGs while Leddy has had his offense increasing as he matures.

 

[8snake]

Scoring more isn't offensively gifted? This Mike Green is a shadow of that Mike Green.

Kronwall and Green are both well short of those PPGs while Leddy has had his offense increasing as he matures.

It's not even just a numbers thing...every time I watch the Islanders play Detroit I think to myself how much more skilled Leddy is over any d-man we have on this roster. Just simple things like getting the puck up ice in transition or skating the puck out of danger...Leddy is leaps and bounds above what we have.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Scoring more isn't offensively gifted? This Mike Green is a shadow of that Mike Green.

Kronwall and Green are both well short of those PPGs while Leddy has had his offense increasing as he matures.

Scoring more right now doesn't make Leddy more offensively gifted than Kronwall or Green. By that logic, you are saying Panarin is more offensively gifted than Datsyuk. Green might be a shadow of his former self, but he is still more offensively gifted than Leddy.

 

[Shaman464]

Scoring more right now doesn't make Leddy more offensively gifted than Kronwall or Green. By that logic, you are saying Panarin is more offensively gifted than Datsyuk. Green might be a shadow of his former self, but he is still more offensively gifted than Leddy.

Not sure if I agree with this, Leddy is scoring more in a less offensive period, whereas Green was racking up points in seasons where there was a lot more offense.

 

[Bushay]

Not sure if I agree with this, Leddy is scoring more in a less offensive period, whereas Green was racking up points in seasons where there was a lot more offense.

WTF?

How about saying that again only a little slower.

 

[Shaman464]

WTF?

How about saying that again only a little slower.

I'll try to slow it for you:

A player scoring a lot of points in a low scoring season ≥ than a player scoring a lot of points in a high scoring season.

Green had 57 points (his max) was also in a year where there were 4 players over 100, and 3 of those were at or near 110 points.

Leddy is on pace for a 40 points in a year where 1 player might cross 100 points.

 

[Classicnamesup]

Green also played with a 60g scorer and 40g scorer on by far the best offensive team in the league. But that green isn't this green

Panarin is crushing Dats offensively.


As for above, green hit 70 some points at his peak, 76? Don't have the numbers in front of me

 

[ricky0034]

I'll try to slow it for you:

A player scoring a lot of points in a low scoring season ≥ than a player scoring a lot of points in a high scoring season.

Green had 57 points (his max) was also in a year where there were 4 players over 100, and 3 of those were at or near 110 points.

Leddy is on pace for a 40 points in a year where 1 player might cross 100 points.

huh?

you're looking at assists not points....

 

[Bushay]

I'll try to slow it for you:

A player scoring a lot of points in a low scoring season ≥ than a player scoring a lot of points in a high scoring season.

Green had 57 points (his max) was also in a year where there were 4 players over 100, and 3 of those were at or near 110 points.

too man other factors and intangibles to say that with any real conviction as truth. you just pulled that out of your ear.