Armchair GM III: No more stinky deadline rentals

[TheOtherOne]

lol I love this board.

Holland never gets rid of anybody except the guys he gets rid of.

as opposed to...

 

[Pavels Dog]

You are all welcome to try here. The old contracts are bracketed but not included in the cap space. Franzen being on LTIR is obv not included in cap space.

Mrazek, DK & Sheahan alone take up the majority of 13M for me. That is where he trouble starts, players need to be moved.

If we have 17 mil in cap space without Franzen I don't really see an issue. Seems like people say this every year, "players have to be moved, there's no room". But things tend to work out. We always spend to the cap limit so it's rare for us to have a lot of cap space available.

 

[HIFE]

This team desperately needs to clean up some of this roster. Smith, Kindl, Big E, Howie, Helm, Quincey, and Richards need to go before next season. The first half just aren't good and the latter are just redundant players. If we need to eat a bit of salary or lose a pick or two so be it. This franchise cannot continue to overspend on midline players, if they want to compete.

In the cap world you have to spend big on your stars and rotate almost everyone else. Very soon guys like Larkin and Mrazek are going to be making 5 or 6 mil, and we are still going to be eating Z and Franzen contracts. Abby will also eventually join them.

Holland needs to figure out soon if Pulks is a legit NHL winger. If he is, then one of Tats or Nyquist needs to be moved for a dman. If not, he needs to be moved before he becomes waiver fodder, ala Jurco. Wings don't need 3 small top 6 wingers, especially since Z will join that group soon.

Holland also needs to figure out who of Marchy, Jensen, Oulette, and Sproul are legit NHL dman. Marchy appears to be, but he needs a full time spot, and Oulette at least needs a cup o tea at the NHL level. They are all losing waiver exemption soon and if we can spend 2 mil on the bottom pair vs 5 or 6 we are in a much better position cap wise.

Your old guard Z, Dats, Kronner and new base Mrazek and Larkin should be the only people safe. I'll throw in DD unless we are moving him for a true number 1. Young cheap guys don't remain cheap for very long anymore. You have to plan for this, and I don't think Holland has done a very good job in planning for this next crop of raises. Loyalty to mid level players doesn't get you anywhere in the cap world.

19 I love this post and what you wrote in the "philosophy" thread. It relays so much of what I've been sensing and wanting to say in words but can't get my thoughts together. I've never been interested in the managing aspect of hockey as much as recently. I'm sure you're echoing the sentiment of a lot of folks, especially those who are starting to key in on where our deficiencies rest.

Here is my breakdown looking to the 2016-17 season, please guys help explain what doesn't work in my scenario:

1. Quincey must be gone. Any of the prospects mentioned can easily fill that spot. Playing heavy my ass.

2. Richards and Andersson gone. For 815,000 we can pick from a plethora of prospects and RP's from around the league. At 3 mil Richards is a no brainer.

3. Here's a big move: buy out Howard and Ericsson. Screw the Michigan and Swedish mafia! If I read correctly Howard's cap hit would be 1.4 (and spike up to 2 in later seasons), and E's hit is 1.6. The Wings would save 6.4 million next season! After Weiss we still have two buyouts remaining until 2021, use them now! I agree strongly with HHD, for Illich it's all about becoming competitive before the new arena opening. Those are the absolute worst contracts on the books we all know it. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

Here is where I'm probably very lost. What will the upcoming contracts be for the following players (considering we stay with most the current roster)?

DK- 3.5
Mrazek- 3.5
Marchy- 2.5
Teemu- 1.5
Sheahan- 2.5
Miller- 2.0
Helm- 3.0 (yeah he's my boy I threw him in there)

This adds up to 18.5. Combined with players already signed and 2 buyout caphits I'm getting 20 MIL left over to sign a cheap backup goaltender, 2 defense and 2 forwards.

Say our goalie, 1 forward and a D can all be replaced for 5 million, that leaves 15 for a star forward and defenseman! We could get Byfuglin and Ladd in FA, some type of package. Zerminator will be thrilled! There isn't a huge list of UFA's this summer but could some of our savings be coupled with a trade?

Smith at 2.75 I'm not sure how much can be gained by dealing him, I think he's trending upwards. Helm I will agree if he asks for more or is deemed replaceable by AA, etc. for cheaper then sayonara I'll feel no way.

If mindless hockey fans(like myself) can see obvious ways to trim a little fat and approach contracts more shrewdly I don't get what Holland's problem is. It's not that difficult to discern trends within the game. The NHL is getting younger every season. Exactly as 19 fp said teams pay core superstars and the rest are forever moving role players. Every deal Holland has made appears to be .5 to 1 million (at least) overpayment. What happened to the hometown discount? I think the jaded, grizzled vets of HF are right: Holland and Co. have glutted themselves on the comfort and ease of mediocrity for years. There is a country club attitude that is killing hunger. Most importantly it's stunting creativity.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Right, but so far Mraz hasn't done anything Jimmy hasn't before. An excellent regular season does not a franchise goalie nor a cup make. Hot goalies can garner the same kind of irrational exuberance out of GMs as they can fans.

I would suggest that Mrazek's career to date, including his pre-NHL work, has been significantly superior to Howard's both in terms of top end and overall consistency.

People seem to forget this, but Howard was a .910 guy in the AHL. Without crunching the numbers I'd bet his career AHL save percentage was .913.

Mrazek, on the other hand, was .916, .924, and .927 in his 3 full and partial AHL seasons.

Mrazek's 2.06 and .931 this year is, so far, better than the best numbers Howard has ever put up (2.13, .923).

I agree with the general idea that Mrazek's story is still largely unwritten, so a career nosedive like what Howard's had isn't impossible... but I think it's important to note that Mrazek's path thus far has been substantially more positive than Howards was.

Other than, maybe, his stint as a 17 year old goaltender in the OHL, Mrazek's never had a season less than 'really good'. That's important.

 

[HockeyinHD]

If mindless hockey fans(like myself) can see obvious ways to trim a little fat and approach contracts more shrewdly I don't get what Holland's problem is.

My favorite part about posts/threads like this is how people criticize Holland for not doing things he couldn't possibly have done yet anyway.

Coming into this year Holland:

-Spent big money on an offensive dman
-Waived Weiss
-Signed Nyquist long term
-Signed a 1 yr on a guy fans here wanted Holland to pay 9 for 63 on 5 years ago (and crushed him for not doing).
-Didn't have Cleary on the roster.

He had also:

-Drafted an elite (so far) young forward
-Drafted an elite (so far) young goaltender

That's what most of you guys wanted him to do. Don't act like he's dancing the meringue while you're playing the waltz.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Exactly as 19 fp said teams pay core superstars and the rest are forever moving role players.

We are paying our role players to provide some stability as we transition from one core to the next. What you said applies to teams that have their superstars in their prime.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I love the idea of buying out Ericsson and Howard. I wouldn't mind trading them for picks or prospects either. We could use that 9 mil towards someone who is actually useful.

 

[lilidk]

I love the idea of buying out Ericsson and Howard. I wouldn't mind trading them for picks or prospects either. We could use that 9 mil towards someone who is actually useful.

trade Pulu and Choose between Nyquist and Tatar to trade \
Datsyuk and Zetterberg are no longer capable to bring Cup
It is time to rebuild this team around Larkin
I think Jurco and Smith are getting better

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

I love the idea of buying out Ericsson and Howard. I wouldn't mind trading them for picks or prospects either. We could use that 9 mil towards someone who is actually useful.

Personally don't like the idea of having 8 years of dead money on the books with a Big E buyout.

As for Howard, in the beginning of the season, I was pretty confident that the team would be able to trade him for something at the draft. Now.... not so sure. In fact, it's looking pretty unlikely with his stat line (even though I think he's better than his record indicates). It's a pretty ****** situation to be in.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I love the idea of buying out Ericsson and Howard. I wouldn't mind trading them for picks or prospects either. We could use that 9 mil towards someone who is actually useful.

You do realize that we're paying Howard for 6 years @ 1,638,889 if we buy him out.

And we're paying Ericcson 8 years @ 1,375,000 if we buy him out.

Plus paying Weiss for the next 5 years @ 1,666,667 or so that's all dead money we would have on the books.

So by buying out both Howard and Ericsson you're not saving 9 mil more like 6 mil and would would have a lot of dead money on the books for the foreseeable future why would we do that.

 

[Frk It]

You do realize that we're paying Howard for 6 years @ 1,638,889 if we buy him out.

And we're paying Ericcson 8 years @ 1,375,000 if we buy him out.

Plus paying Weiss for the next 5 years @ 1,666,667 or so that's all dead money we would have on the books.

So by buying out both Howard and Ericsson you're not saving 9 mil more like 6 mil and would would have a lot of dead money on the books for the foreseeable future why would we do that.

Haha, it looks like dead money when they're on the ice lately, too.

 

[Reddwit]

I've been lurking here for a minute, and I just wanted to make a few comments about trades:

Holland has made 20 trades since 2006. This includes 3 pick-for-pick trades at the draft, 4 trades that were purely for minor league purposes (e.g. Francis Lemieux for Brett Engelhardt), 4 get-him-off-the-roster trades (Leino, Huskins, Commodore, Rivers), and the trade of Stuart in mid-June to San Jose. The others include: Acquiring Cory Cross, my crap for your crap with Calder for Williams, and the acquisitions of Bertuzzi, Stuart, Quincey, Legwand, Cole, and Zidlicky.

By my count, that amounts to 8 trades in 10 years involving acquiring anything more than a 7th defenseman or a 13th forward.

And that involves a total of one top 12/top 6 roster player being extracted from the roster in 10 years - Jason Williams. If you want to be liberal, we can call it 2 with Ville Leino.

By comparison:

Stan Bowman, having won several cups since he took over in 2009, has made 20 trades just since November of 2013.
Lombardi has made 21 just since 2012.

(Others: Shero made 20 trades from 2011-2014 alone. Chiarelli made 38 with Boston from 2010-2015.)

But what is most interesting, in my humble opinion, is that both Lombardi and Bowman have made trades - roster trades - whilst being among the best teams in their respective divisions, if not league.

Since 2010, Lombardi has shipped out Wayne Simmonds, Ryan Smyth, Jack Johnson, Brayden Schenn, and Martin Jones - all soon-to-be major players or already important roster players.

Since 2010, Bowman has shipped out: Brandon Saad, Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Trevor Daley, Dave Bolland, Kris Versteeg (again), Michael Frolik, Nick Leddy, Tomas Kopecky, Troy Brouwer, Brian Campbell, Cam Barker (back when he was relevant), Dustin Byfuglien, and Andrew Ladd.

There is absolutely no question that in today's NHL, you have to keep the roster wheels moving. Identify your limited core and move on from the rest. And when push comes to shove, even the core should get shifted.

I don't know how many of you are professionals, but if you've ever been in a sophisticated workplace where someone gets fired, demoted, or relocated, it makes you re-evaluate your own performance. Likewise, if you've ever been in that setting, you know you much you tend to let your guard down and become lax with your personal appearance or internet usage or lunchtime expenditures or what have you when you've been working with the same team for years on-end.

You look at the reigning Cup Champions, and their GM has made more substantial trades in the past six months than our GM has arguably made in his 17 year tenure. Not only did he cut ties with a piece of his core (Sharp), his future core (Saad), or trade a hyped prospect that had yet to prove a goddamn thing (Johns), but he also wasn't afraid to implicitly admit that he didn't make the best trade by shipping off both Daley and Garbutt only months after acquiring them, while finding what appear to be adequate but more appropriate fits almost immediately in Scuderi and Panik.

This is the benchmark for GMing in the new NHL. I agree with those of you who complain about a country club atmosphere here. Almost everyone is safe once they become a Red Wing and it breeds complacency.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Buying out Ericsson and Howard is stupid. It's beyond stupid.

The Wings have to reshuffle the deck with cap hits if they are going to improve, of course, but there are ways to do it without having 4.5M of your cap being completely unusable for the foreseeable future.

If you present a plan where you say "we will use the money freed up from this and can get this top pairing D or #1C locked up on a good contract"... maybe I take two seconds to listen.

Right now it seems like a ludicrously short-sighted plan that would be very bad long term.

 

[Classicnamesup]

I've been lurking here for a minute, and I just wanted to make a few comments about trades:

Holland has made 20 trades since 2006. This includes 3 pick-for-pick trades at the draft, 4 trades that were purely for minor league purposes (e.g. Francis Lemieux for Brett Engelhardt), 4 get-him-off-the-roster trades (Leino, Huskins, Commodore, Rivers), and the trade of Stuart in mid-June to San Jose. The others include: Acquiring Cory Cross, my crap for your crap with Calder for Williams, and the acquisitions of Bertuzzi, Stuart, Quincey, Legwand, Cole, and Zidlicky.

By my count, that amounts to 8 trades in 10 years involving acquiring anything more than a 7th defenseman or a 13th forward.

And that involves a total of one top 12/top 6 roster player being extracted from the roster in 10 years - Jason Williams. If you want to be liberal, we can call it 2 with Ville Leino.

By comparison:

Stan Bowman, having won several cups since he took over in 2009, has made 20 trades just since November of 2013.
Lombardi has made 21 just since 2012.

(Others: Shero made 20 trades from 2011-2014 alone. Chiarelli made 38 with Boston from 2010-2015.)

But what is most interesting, in my humble opinion, is that both Lombardi and Bowman have made trades - roster trades - whilst being among the best teams in their respective divisions, if not league.

Since 2010, Lombardi has shipped out Wayne Simmonds, Ryan Smyth, Jack Johnson, Brayden Schenn, and Martin Jones - all soon-to-be major players or already important roster players.

Since 2010, Bowman has shipped out: Brandon Saad, Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Trevor Daley, Dave Bolland, Kris Versteeg (again), Michael Frolik, Nick Leddy, Tomas Kopecky, Troy Brouwer, Brian Campbell, Cam Barker (back when he was relevant), Dustin Byfuglien, and Andrew Ladd.

There is absolutely no question that in today's NHL, you have to keep the roster wheels moving. Identify your limited core and move on from the rest. And when push comes to shove, even the core should get shifted.

I don't know how many of you are professionals, but if you've ever been in a sophisticated workplace where someone gets fired, demoted, or relocated, it makes you re-evaluate your own performance. Likewise, if you've ever been in that setting, you know you much you tend to let your guard down and become lax with your personal appearance or internet usage or lunchtime expenditures or what have you when you've been working with the same team for years on-end.

You look at the reigning Cup Champions, and their GM has made more substantial trades in the past six months than our GM has arguably made in his 17 year tenure. Not only did he cut ties with a piece of his core (Sharp), his future core (Saad), or trade a hyped prospect that had yet to prove a goddamn thing (Johns), but he also wasn't afraid to implicitly admit that he didn't make the best trade by shipping off both Daley and Garbutt only months after acquiring them, while finding what appear to be adequate but more appropriate fits almost immediately in Scuderi and Panik.

This is the benchmark for GMing in the new NHL. I agree with those of you who complain about a country club atmosphere here. Almost everyone is safe once they become a Red Wing and it breeds complacency.

Good post and I agree with you. Giving massive long term contracts to everybody contributes to this as well. It makes them too comfortable and kills any trade value they had.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I've been lurking here for a minute, and I just wanted to make a few comments about trades:

Holland has made 20 trades since 2006. This includes 3 pick-for-pick trades at the draft, 4 trades that were purely for minor league purposes (e.g. Francis Lemieux for Brett Engelhardt), 4 get-him-off-the-roster trades (Leino, Huskins, Commodore, Rivers), and the trade of Stuart in mid-June to San Jose. The others include: Acquiring Cory Cross, my crap for your crap with Calder for Williams, and the acquisitions of Bertuzzi, Stuart, Quincey, Legwand, Cole, and Zidlicky.

By my count, that amounts to 8 trades in 10 years involving acquiring anything more than a 7th defenseman or a 13th forward.

And that involves a total of one top 12/top 6 roster player being extracted from the roster in 10 years - Jason Williams. If you want to be liberal, we can call it 2 with Ville Leino.

By comparison:

Stan Bowman, having won several cups since he took over in 2009, has made 20 trades just since November of 2013.
Lombardi has made 21 just since 2012.

(Others: Shero made 20 trades from 2011-2014 alone. Chiarelli made 38 with Boston from 2010-2015.)

But what is most interesting, in my humble opinion, is that both Lombardi and Bowman have made trades - roster trades - whilst being among the best teams in their respective divisions, if not league.

Since 2010, Lombardi has shipped out Wayne Simmonds, Ryan Smyth, Jack Johnson, Brayden Schenn, and Martin Jones - all soon-to-be major players or already important roster players.

Since 2010, Bowman has shipped out: Brandon Saad, Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Trevor Daley, Dave Bolland, Kris Versteeg (again), Michael Frolik, Nick Leddy, Tomas Kopecky, Troy Brouwer, Brian Campbell, Cam Barker (back when he was relevant), Dustin Byfuglien, and Andrew Ladd.

There is absolutely no question that in today's NHL, you have to keep the roster wheels moving. Identify your limited core and move on from the rest. And when push comes to shove, even the core should get shifted.

I don't know how many of you are professionals, but if you've ever been in a sophisticated workplace where someone gets fired, demoted, or relocated, it makes you re-evaluate your own performance. Likewise, if you've ever been in that setting, you know you much you tend to let your guard down and become lax with your personal appearance or internet usage or lunchtime expenditures or what have you when you've been working with the same team for years on-end.

You look at the reigning Cup Champions, and their GM has made more substantial trades in the past six months than our GM has arguably made in his 17 year tenure. Not only did he cut ties with a piece of his core (Sharp), his future core (Saad), or trade a hyped prospect that had yet to prove a goddamn thing (Johns), but he also wasn't afraid to implicitly admit that he didn't make the best trade by shipping off both Daley and Garbutt only months after acquiring them, while finding what appear to be adequate but more appropriate fits almost immediately in Scuderi and Panik.

This is the benchmark for GMing in the new NHL. I agree with those of you who complain about a country club atmosphere here. Almost everyone is safe once they become a Red Wing and it breeds complacency.

Chicago has Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, and Duncan Keith. In their primes.

Lombardi has Drew Doughty, Anze Kopitar, and Jonathan Quick. In their primes.

They're not winning because they're dumping the Patrick Sharps or Jack Johnsons of the world. They're winning because they have elite players are in their primes that can easily paper over the roster turnover that is necessary when you hit a cap crunch.

The Wings aren't at the pinnacle of the league anymore because their elite players are either past their prime or a couple years away from hitting it. It's not because they signed Justin Abdelkader to a 7 year deal or didn't trade Jiri Hudler for a 3rd or 4th round pick at the trade deadline instead of letting him walk.

Holland hasn't been doing a stellar job, but it is embarrassing when people try to denigrate him for not trading while extolling the virtues of something like Bowman's forced maneuvering due to cap constraints. He dealt Saad and Sharp because he literally could not afford them.

Lastly... you know why LA and Chicago have those elite players in their primes? They SUCKED for the better part of a decade. In Chicago's case like Dead Wings sucked.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Buying out Ericsson and Howard is stupid. It's beyond stupid.

The Wings have to reshuffle the deck with cap hits if they are going to improve, of course, but there are ways to do it without having 4.5M of your cap being completely unusable for the foreseeable future.

If you present a plan where you say "we will use the money freed up from this and can get this top pairing D or #1C locked up on a good contract"... maybe I take two seconds to listen.

Right now it seems like a ludicrously short-sighted plan that would be very bad long term.

The Wings have almost ten million dollars in dead cap with those two on the roster.

Ericsson is an awful defenseman on any pairing. Holland should have not been so short sighted in the first place when he gave him that ludicrous extension. Of course he didn't learn from that mistake. Gave Gator a seven year contract in the middle of November...idiot.

Howard is being paid five million to track faceoff wins and losses.

 

[Vladdy84]

That was a great post by the newbie. But It helps when you have a younger core in their primes.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The Wings have almost ten million dollars in dead cap with those two on the roster.

Ericsson is an awful defenseman on any pairing. Holland should have not been so short sighted in the first place when he gave him that ludicrous extension. Of course he didn't learn from that mistake. Gave Gator a seven year contract in the middle of November...idiot.

Howard is being paid five million to track faceoff wins and losses.

A) You're being hyperbolic in your description of Ericsson. That's not particularly news, but still. Should be mentioned.

B) How many people thought the Howard deal was that bad at the time, honestly? I bet even the people that hated the deal thought it was a year long and maybe a mil per year high.

I understand the Hindsight Man costume fits everyone comfortably... but easy there.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

I had no issue with Howard's contract when it was made. My issue is holding onto it even though the team can't win a single game with him in net.

It's only hindsight to you. My posting history calls out Kenny on his garbage long before it turned into hindsight.

I said to trade Howard during the offseason. Now he is untradeable and can only way he leaves Detroit is through waivers.

Jonathan Ericsson is a garbage defenseman. Sorry you still can't see that. The rest of the NHL can see it.

 

[19 for president]

You can't buy out Howie and E. It is too much cap space but you can trade them while holding on to some of their cap. If we can keep Petr and Howie holdover money to what Howie makes now, then I think we are fine cap wise. Howard at 4 mil might make him tempting. If you have to trade a 2nd to get someone to take Es cap hit you do that to.

You use midline players as your transition when you have nothing in the pipeline not when you have a good prospect system. That just keeps you from being able to resign said young players in the future. Rfas get big deals now. You have one maybe 2 deal contracts at best. Plus 5-7 year contracts aren't transitional they are core. If howie, e, etc were on 3 year deals I would have no problem with their deals. Abby would be fantastic if it were a 4 year deal. I don't think e or howard are horribly overpaid in terms of yearly salary, but holland unwillingness to deal them before they are stuck behind young players has hurt this team.

Right now I see a team that has a solid future core with Larkin, Nyquist, Tatar, Mrazek, DD, Marchy. Those guys are going to get paid though, so if you don't get some of these midline guys out you aren't going to have room to sign them.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I had no issue with Howard's contract when it was made. My issue is holding onto it even though the team can't win a single game with him in net.

Holding onto it as opposed to... what?

It's only hindsight to you. My posting history calls out Kenny on his garbage long before it turned into hindsight.

Yes, you rip Holland for everything he does. I know. That doesn't mean you have foresight, just that you rip him for everything he does.

I said to trade Howard during the offseason. Now he is untradeable and can only way he leaves Detroit is through waivers.

A) What if Mrazek wasn't Mrazek?
B) What makes you think he was tradeable then?

Jonathan Ericsson is a garbage defenseman. Sorry you still can't see that. The rest of the NHL can see it.

Hy
per
bowl
ee

clap clap clap-clap-clap.

 

[white galaxy*]

give hollands kings or hawks rosters created via higher draft pix than hollands had for 20 years and two things happen -

1 - hollands winning cups
2 - hes having to make trades because players are becoming worth more on market because of their success so he trades them or loses somebody to free agency

im not enamored with all hollands moves but he works with the draft position given him by a method of - keeping room sparkling - loyalty to players - continuity - development - mentorship . the loyalty and continuity factors are why he dont trade , and their both huge huge factors in his philosophy . and once somebody else hits a 24 year run start blowing up hollands ways . in the mean time the streak gets drw huge respect amongst player n fan alike , that respect helps keep drw sailing . and some how hes bringing studs on board like larks n mrazeks whose development hes enhancing by not trading away his star vets whom are the best developmental coaches a team can have

this isnt the business world , this is pro sports and its different and also much more difficult to succeed long term at . but hollands doing so /

 

[WingedWheel1987]

If your five million dollar goalie loses his starting spot in the playoffs to a unproven rookie, his career in Detroit is over. Howard had to be moved before Mrazek's bridge deal. That's common sense.

If Mrazek isn't Mrazek? How about having some faith in your young players instead of betting against them? Ohhh no the playoff streak might be ruined. How will i ever survive not seeing the Wings lose in the first round.

Ohhh boy good one. Me calling out Holland on his garbage moves doesn't count as not being hindsight because i have previously called Holland out on his garbage before it became hindsight, so that makes me biased. Brilliant logic. Keep it coming. I don't rip Holland on everything he does. I praised him for waiving Weiss, signing Green and drafting Larkin. The bad just outweighs the good. Sorry you can't handle the fact that Holland has made some absolutely abysmal moves since the 2009-2010 season.

You on the other hand use mental gymnastics at an Olympic level to make every decision made by Holland sound good.

Jonathan Ericsson sucks. Feel free to join me in reality at any time.

 

[Classicnamesup]

give hollands kings or hawks rosters created via higher draft pix than hollands had for 20 years and two things happen -

1 - hollands winning cups
2 - hes having to make trades because players are becoming worth more on market because of their success so he trades them or loses somebody to free agency

im not enamored with all hollands moves but he works with the draft position given him by a method of - keeping room sparkling - loyalty to players - continuity - development - mentorship . the loyalty and continuity factors are why he dont trade , and their both huge huge factors in his philosophy . and once somebody else hits a 24 year run start blowing up hollands ways . in the mean time the streak gets drw huge respect amongst player n fan alike , that respect helps keep drw sailing . and some how hes bringing studs on board like larks n mrazeks whose development hes enhancing by not trading away his star vets whom are the best developmental coaches a team can have

this isnt the business world , this is pro sports and its different and also much more difficult to succeed long term at . but hollands doing so /

If Holland takes over the Kings 4 years ago, they win no cups. A quick glance at the SCF tells me Jeff Carter scored 4 goals (including the cup winner) and Mike Richards got 4 assists. Holland doesn't make trades like that and he would not have picked up either player. No trade, no cups. Esp Carter has been a key player for them for years now.

 

[EXTRAS]

You guys think Brad Richards will return next season?