Haha, as I was doing that research, I found out who that was...And that did occur to me: only person here who might know who that is is probably Muppet
OT: Arizona Coyotes Lounge XIII -- Summertime Blues
- Thread starter RR
- Start date
Haha, as I was doing that research, I found out who that was...And that did occur to me: only person here who might know who that is is probably Muppet
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,546
- 12,433
Mark Cuban is a loser
“I’m probably not supposed to say this, but,...losing is our best option.’”
Amid 2nd disastrous season, Cuban told Mavs: 'Losing is our best option'
“I’m probably not supposed to say this, but,...losing is our best option.’”
Amid 2nd disastrous season, Cuban told Mavs: 'Losing is our best option'
Cuban has long been pro-tanking. I remember him talking about it way back right after the Mavs won their championship. Said he wouldn't want the team stuck in that barely miss the playoffs vortex.
The problem though with the NBA now is if you aren't one of the top 3-4 teams you are mediocre too.
The problem though with the NBA now is if you aren't one of the top 3-4 teams you are mediocre too.
LOL, no surprise that strategy is popular here. 
Let's throw some cold water on that, shall we?
Golden State Warriors
Steph Curry - 7th pick
Klay Thompson - 11th pick
Draymond Green - 35th pick
Kevin Durant - 2nd pick...for another team...9 years before he became a GSW
Figures Cuban believes in that rubbish, he seems like the type, and that he has supporters here.
Let's throw some cold water on that, shall we?
Golden State Warriors
Steph Curry - 7th pick
Klay Thompson - 11th pick
Draymond Green - 35th pick
Kevin Durant - 2nd pick...for another team...9 years before he became a GSW
Figures Cuban believes in that rubbish, he seems like the type, and that he has supporters here.
RABBIT
Years of my life w you f*cks only to get relocated
taking in other sports where the draft lottery is not f***ing garbage is a smart move. Big picture.
I think you're confused on what tanking is supposed to achieve.LOL, no surprise that strategy is popular here.
Let's throw some cold water on that, shall we?
Golden State Warriors
Steph Curry - 7th pick
Klay Thompson - 11th pick
Draymond Green - 35th pick
Kevin Durant - 2nd pick...for another team...9 years before he became a GSW
Figures Cuban believes in that rubbish, he seems like the type, and that he has supporters here.
So the Warirors got where they are for a variety of reasons not just trying to be competitive and then making it happen.
They were a forward thinking organization that saw where the league was trending before almost everyone else (3 ball) and picked up players that fit the mold. It took some time for this to pay off and I think the idea that any other team can replicate that environment is highly suspect.
The Warriors also toiled at the basement of the league for about a decade and a half before this all worked out....
The NBA is a terrible league really where just about everyone fails. The 76ers have been tanking basically since AI left and they are just BARELY getting back to somewhere good and that's mostly on the back of their 1OA Ben Simmonds and 3OA Joel Embiid.
The days where you can be the Suns of the 00's and put together a competent contender from teens picks reliably are over. The problem is tanking in the NBA doesn't really work most of the time either. Basically everyone is screwed.
Look at who has won and lost the championships. Sure you've got the Warriors. But otherwise you're looking at Super team Cleveland, Boston, and Miami. The Kobe Lakers and the Nowitzki Mavs who's stars were drafted in another era where you can pull that type of thing off now (look at drafted players after 5th the last few years, it ain't good) The Spurs (1st overall Tim Duncan). The Shaq super team Lakers. And then the Pistons and Nets who were good in an era where teams like the Suns could do what they did.
I think it's basically luck right now that will allow a team to crawl out of the basement. If you're the Suns you either need to hit on an incredible talent that was missed in the early 1st (unlikely, teams don't miss on Kobe types these days who end up going 13th overall) or you need to win the lottery exactly when the next Lebron/Durant/Duncan is availible. The days of teams KNOWING they are probably making the wrong call by Drafting Oden but doing it anyway are over.
They were a forward thinking organization that saw where the league was trending before almost everyone else (3 ball) and picked up players that fit the mold. It took some time for this to pay off and I think the idea that any other team can replicate that environment is highly suspect.
The Warriors also toiled at the basement of the league for about a decade and a half before this all worked out....
The NBA is a terrible league really where just about everyone fails. The 76ers have been tanking basically since AI left and they are just BARELY getting back to somewhere good and that's mostly on the back of their 1OA Ben Simmonds and 3OA Joel Embiid.
The days where you can be the Suns of the 00's and put together a competent contender from teens picks reliably are over. The problem is tanking in the NBA doesn't really work most of the time either. Basically everyone is screwed.
Look at who has won and lost the championships. Sure you've got the Warriors. But otherwise you're looking at Super team Cleveland, Boston, and Miami. The Kobe Lakers and the Nowitzki Mavs who's stars were drafted in another era where you can pull that type of thing off now (look at drafted players after 5th the last few years, it ain't good) The Spurs (1st overall Tim Duncan). The Shaq super team Lakers. And then the Pistons and Nets who were good in an era where teams like the Suns could do what they did.
I think it's basically luck right now that will allow a team to crawl out of the basement. If you're the Suns you either need to hit on an incredible talent that was missed in the early 1st (unlikely, teams don't miss on Kobe types these days who end up going 13th overall) or you need to win the lottery exactly when the next Lebron/Durant/Duncan is availible. The days of teams KNOWING they are probably making the wrong call by Drafting Oden but doing it anyway are over.
RemoAZ
Let it burn
You have to be good at drafting and have some luck that's for sure but if you're going to suck, I've always thought it's better to take the opportunity to look at your young prospects while losing down the stretch to improve your draft position. If our team would have landed one of the generational players that came out, how much farther along would the rebuild be? How many more season tickets would they have sold to improve their chances of signing an impact free agent? What we've always done is add waiver fodder and average at best free agents. Then at the end of the season when other teams are tanking, have given up or are looking at their young players, our team is winning games to try and save face. Not only is it pointless, it's not fun to watch. I think it all goes back to a lack of a plan and strength of ownership/management. We basically let the coach run things. He only worried about winning the next game instead of building for the future. So far the new regime looks way too similar. We'll see after the trade deadline. I hope they've learned something from studying the last half decade or so of futility but I have my doubts.
- Jan 3, 2012
- 14,546
- 12,433
Winter is quietly roaring back
****ing groundhog.
I froze my ass off on the way home since my heater stopped working.
Windchill sub-zero in KC this morning,.
Coyotedroppings
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2017
- 6,571
- 5,424
I'd say he has honor and if all competed with honor, this would not be a discussion and the system would work.Fair enough, perhaps you're just shortsighted then.
Fair enough, perhaps you're just shortsighted then.
And that is the typical tanker retort. I'm used to it. I disagree. (although, to your credit, you lack the condescension of others like you)
- Oct 26, 2006
- 18,544
- 11,368
Fair enough, perhaps you're just shortsighted then.
Look at Buffalo. They tanked HARD to get Eichel. And now they have a complete losing culture. Eichel has done nothing to turn their fortunes around.
Prospect players are so overvalued these days. Maybe it's the EA Sports effect. But the process you have to go through to properly tank guts your organization so badly that it could take years to build around the sparkling shiny new star you've drafted - if you ever get good enough before he's either too old, traded away, or signs elsewhere as a UFA.
Disliking and distrusting a tank job is not a function of being shortsighted. If anything, the reverse is true.
^
For me, the suspicion is that some people will look at the Crosby/Malkin Penguins and the Kane/Toews Hawks, and think that's the best if not only way to get there, because that's all they know. But bring up the Oilers (and now maybe Sabres), or any other example in the last 20-30 years where being bad and getting 'can't miss' players didn't work so well, and they stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA....I cant hear you, you short sighted git...LA LA LA".
It's just not even close for me between going to a game to watch a team that has a chance of winning the game I'm attending, and a gaining a couple of percentage points in a lottery to pick from people who may or may not ever turn into good let alone great NHL players.
For me, the suspicion is that some people will look at the Crosby/Malkin Penguins and the Kane/Toews Hawks, and think that's the best if not only way to get there, because that's all they know. But bring up the Oilers (and now maybe Sabres), or any other example in the last 20-30 years where being bad and getting 'can't miss' players didn't work so well, and they stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LA LA LA LA LA....I cant hear you, you short sighted git...LA LA LA".
It's just not even close for me between going to a game to watch a team that has a chance of winning the game I'm attending, and a gaining a couple of percentage points in a lottery to pick from people who may or may not ever turn into good let alone great NHL players.
I appreciate your idealism but that's not how the world works.
Typical tanker retort? Others like me? No I'm not being condescending to you so perhaps you could consider not being snotty.
Using Buffalo as an example is kind of pointless for now, Jack Eichel is 21, that story is far from written yet. To be clear I'm not talking about just any prospects, I'm talking about super prospects. The McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, Laine and Dahlin types. You tank for Connor McDavid or Auston Matthews, you do not tank for Nico Hischier or Aaron Ekblad. Also to be clear when I'm talking about tanking, I'm talking about teams that already suck. You don't take a middle of the road team and tank it but if you're already crappy and facing the realities of needing a rebuild, you absolutely should tank when a super prospect is available. Not doing so is a fools move IMO.
Well I can't speak for others but in my case I see that only 1 team in the past 25 years has won the Stanley Cup without a lottery pick (top 3) on their roster. Now I understand correlation does not mean causation but that's a fact that's pretty damn tough to ignore. btw...the only team to not have a top 3 was the 2001 Avs but even that is a bit of an asterisk because they did have the number #1 pick but instead traded it for a boat load of assets that led them to their powerhouse team.
Don't forget the context here, this discussion was about when tanking essentially guaranteed your spot in the draft, not merely giving you "a couple of percentage points" extra.
Coyotedroppings
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2017
- 6,571
- 5,424
Yeah, honor is lacking generally speaking. Oddly enough some twist that into some deranged form of intellect.
I guess for the Coyotes to win the cup we will have to break that streak OR get the first this year. Which one has better odds?
That's because there's a fine line between being honorable and being a fool.
TheLegend
Megathread Gadfly
What in the hell is all this hockey talk in the lounge thread???!!!!!
Hasn’t anyone gone and seen Black Panther yet????
Hasn’t anyone gone and seen Black Panther yet????
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