Are we ready to admit that Reinhart is a bust?

Bust?


  • Total voters
    138

Fezzy126

Rebuilding...
May 10, 2017
8,630
11,389
I've always thought Sam = Paul Stastny
I thought this when he was drafted.
I think this now.

Stastny brings a ton to his team and is amazingly underappreciated by most casual fans. But there's nothing wrong with being disappointed that we tanked and the 2nd overall pick didn't turn into a dynamic game changing talent like Laine, Hedman, or Doughty.

As for the Eichel vs Sam debate, Eichel has produced dynamic game changing plays (e.g. Nashville OT winner). So while he hasn't yet matured to a point where he has a greater impact for his team on a consistent basis, we've all seen him flash the potential of taking over a game.
 

bluengold72

Registered User
Jul 18, 2013
71
1
north tonawanda
obviously not a bust. disappointing for 2nd overall though. i don't think he'll ever string together a better run of seasons as far as production goes then say ummm Derek Roy's 05-11 seasons.
 

Duddy

Everyday is
Dec 24, 2005
12,048
1,370
Every player is a bust and every trade made sucks. Sky falling, move the team to Kansas City
 

Thorton02

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
1,832
662
You might want to review David legwand's career. Samson in his first two full seasons has put up numbers equivalent to legwands career years over a 15 year run.

So unless you think Samson is going to get worse as he physically matures, that projection seems a little low.
Lol, I thought Legward was better than that. So maybe Legwand is Sam's floor.:laugh:
 

dotcommunism

Moderator
Aug 16, 2007
5,182
3,348
Some people thought the poll options were inadequate so I decided to add a couple more. Hope that helps.
 

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,250
4,936
I'd say his floor is Sam Gagner with a ceiling of David Legwand.

It's not exactly hindsight to say Reinhart isn't fast, dynamic or an unphysical player. Some of that was hidden while playing wing to Eichel. As soon as he is put at center, those flaws become glaring which is going to kill his value in the leauge. Management needs to make a decision on him soon and either move him to Eichel's wing so Sam can put up points again in order to trade him for a top defenseman, or go all in and hope Sam will be a solid #2 center. Considering that Sam will need speedy/skilled wingers to do all the dirty work, the second option seems like bad asset management to me.
I think you should watch more Sabres games before posting, your view of Reinhart is ill informed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aladyyn

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
12,250
4,936
Im going to put it this way....

If Reinhart is a bust so is Eichel for not living up to generational talent he was hailed as.
 

Thorton02

Registered User
Feb 6, 2009
1,832
662
I think you should watch more Sabres games before posting, your view of Reinhart is ill informed.
Hardly. He has mobility problems and is not agressive at all. Maybe he learns how to play hungry, but he hasn't shown it. The best thing I've seen is he's not afraid to sit in front of the net which I applaud, but being good at being stationary is not what I'd look for in a #2 center on a team that supposedly is going to play up tempo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CacOBG

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,664
7,884
In the Panderverse
Comments to OP in bold.
Full disclaimer: I've never been a Sam Reinhart fan. Two years ago I got into several debates on this forum by saying I didn't think he was going to be very good. However, I'm a big Sabres fan so even despite my doubts, I've always hoped for success. However, at this point, I'm just not seeing it. Here are some reasons I doubt he will ever be anything more than an average NHL player:

1. He has no "special" quality about him. Skating, speed, even his highly touted "Hockey IQ" and passing ability haven't been able to translate to the NHL game. Sure, he can make good passes from time to time, but he's not consistently dazzling us with his ability to fit a puck into a tight spot. The inference or corollary being one must play flashy as a #2OA choice (in a somewhat weak draft no less) to not be a bust. That's a false dichotomy.

2. Go look up every single goal Sam Reinhart has scored in the NHL. Tell me how many of them are not a tip in, deflection, shooting into a wide open net or otherwise flukey goal. If it's more than 5 of his career goals I'll Venmo you $10. His shot is simply not NHL quality. You can argue that others have been able to have fine NHL careers without a good shot, but it's amazing to me that he's hardly had ANY goals in the NHL that come in from one of his actual shots. I'm puzzled as to whether Reinhart's goals counted less than Ovechkin's or e.g., Mike Bossy's.

3. He's been demoted from Center at least twice. This really says something. His "natural" position apparently isn't so natural to him, and he's been forced to the wing to help minimize his impact on the game. Without acknowledging his first coach was an idiot and his second coach has had 3 NHL games of experience. Yes, that really says something.

4. He's had maturity/discipline problems. I highly doubt it was the full story when he got benched for a game for missing a practice. Typically when things like that happen, a player has a history of it, or has already had at least one warning. In addition to this, he's made up excuses for why he hasn't been able to be in the gym as much in the past. So, the inference here is a few Tony Robbins DVD's and a couple cycles of Anavar will turn him from a bust to a star? Because you surely can't be speculating...

5. Poor "hockey bloodline". Sure, his father was a good NHL player - but his two brothers have not amounted to much either. While some say this is nonsense, it's not terribly uncommon. Dylan Strome is currently following the disappointing path of his older brother, and Sam looks like he's on the same pace that Griffin was. I thought you grasped the last floating straw with #3, but I see the tide pushed this one a little closer. Anyone else on this board feel their life's intrinsic value / "worth" should be compared to their father (mother) or siblings?

6. Lack of progression. This was the first red flag to me, even going back to his overage year in Juniors. He didn't improve his PPG pace then (a very worrisome sign for almost any NHL prospect and the crux of my argument a couple years ago). Since then, his NHL pace has improved just slightly. He didn't make a big leap at all from year 1 to year 2. Sure, he did score 5 more points, but he scored 6 less goals, and scored 7 more points on the Power Play from the year prior, which negates some of the "improvement" that is there to begin with. Aside from point totals, he hasn't offered anything additional when it comes to play in his own end, leadership, or shot creation. Others have rebutted with data, but ask this at the end of this season, after a full year with a new coach.

7. Draft status. Face it, he was drafted 2nd overall and simply has not performed like a 2nd overall player. Apart from other obvious "busts" going into his 4th NHL season, he does not stack up favorably at all to his peers drafted in the same spot.
3rd true season, as noted by others. Again, re-assess this one in April 2018.

I totally agree with this well thought out, spot on analysis.
LOL

Are we ready to admit that hyperbolic thread titles are a divisive waste of time on these forums?
LOL

I can't wait until the Sabres start winning. This board is rapidly approaching the cliff edge.

Approaching? It's full on free fall already. Brace for impact.
I searched for an image / .gif of lemmings over the cliff, but then I read that's essentially a myth, that they do it instinctively. Kinda made me sad actually. Fun fact: About 20 years ago I used the analogy of lemmings over the cliff in a mgmt review to describe a bad manufacturing process where we were sending one bad part after another through the next process steps, oblivious to it's eventual scrapping at final QA. (My team fixed the process.)

I'm not a fan of players, I'm a fan of teams. Jack has hockey sense, he's just playing lazy. Sam has hockey sense and pretty much nothing else except an excellent tip in and semi-decent playmaking ability - that is not enough to be impact player in today's NHL...Looking at our D I'm ready to reopen te trade Reinhart for D conversation but now that he has kinda failed again at C I don't know if it fetches the Hanifin type of player. Theyhave moved him to wing after being pointless so that would not look good in terms of trade value. No idea what to do with him but since I suspect his trade value is very low now I guess it's better to keep him and hope he at least becomes good 3rd line center. This is the exact reason 4 months ago I was advocating to trade him for young D, cause if he fails at C when tested, his value will go down for sure.
(found the acorn, as expected) The premise is: Reinhart should have been traded this offseason while his (inferred low) value was highest, because if he played well at center for a new coach with an up-tempo style and failed, his (un-admitted low) value would sink (even further). Boy, if that isn't fear of success, and planning for failure, I don't know what is.

"Bust" in Reinhart's case means that (impactwise, not playingstyle-wise) he's gonna be more JVR than Jonathan Toews like we hoped.
For him to be an actual bust he'd have to stagnate or even regress from here on out, and that's not likely.
That being said, it's been three games out of 82. Three games in which he had to adapt to a new position, a new system, a new coach and new teammates. Let's talk again around Christmas.
My view too.


Sabres first rounders Jiri Novotny, Artem Kryukov, Marek Zagrapan, Dennis Persson, and Mikhail Grigorenko are 2000's draft picks that qualify as "busts."

Sam Reinhart is clearly nowhere's near them, so he is obviously not a bust.


He didn't come out like a house on fire like some other 2000's - 2'nd overall picks Heatley, Spezza, Staal - Eric, Malkin, Doughty, or Laine: but he's not a Kari Lehtonen either.

2'nd overall picks like Hedman, and Seguin took a couple years to develop.

He still has time to become a good player. At worst he's Bobby Ryan, Gabriel Landeskog, Ryan Murray type player.

To call him a bust, or even ask if he's a bust is just not a good question worded as such...
And there are many others in the Sabres history from the 1980s
 

AustonsNostrils

Registered User
Apr 5, 2016
7,409
2,533
He's going to be a solid player, eventually he will be a centerman. I'm leery of trading him, I could see him going to Vancouver with him and Horvat being 1A and 1B.

l really wanted to see a full season of him at center, I'd like to try him at center with ROR or even Eichel at wing. Need to see what he has before contemplating trading him. Playing him on the 3rd line is just going to hurt his value, GMs are worse than fans when it comes to 'points'.

I would trade him and Kane for Horvat, that's how good Bo is. Vancouver fans would laugh at the offer but not sure Benning would.
 

Doug Prishpreed

Registered User
May 1, 2013
10,007
6,672
Brooklyn
He's going to be a solid player, eventually he will be a centerman. I'm leery of trading him, I could see him going to Vancouver with him and Horvat being 1A and 1B.

l really wanted to see a full season of him at center, I'd like to try him at center with ROR or even Eichel at wing. Need to see what he has before contemplating trading him. Playing him on the 3rd line is just going to hurt his value, GMs are worse than fans when it comes to 'points'.

We also have Asplund and Mittlestadt coming as soon as next year.

Unless we start making trades, we'll have 7 natural centers in our top 9, which is crazy to think about:
Eichel
ROR
Girgs
Larsson
Reinhart
Mittlestadt
Asplund​

So whatever happens, there's gonna be 4 centers playing wing. It's neither a crime nor a tragedy if Reinhart is one of them.
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
Sam is neither a bust nor near his ceiling at this moment.

But taking the macro view, there would be something very wrong with an organization that tanks for the top forward in the draft, gets him, gets him knowing that his elite skillset (limited as it may be) is far better suited to center than the wing, he never looks bad at that position, shows flashes of top play, but he can't find a coach to try and consistently develop him in that role. Only for a couple games, or if injury demands.

It's early and I expect Sam will get back to C soon. But if we did end up back on the Disco track, you're taking a very hard-fought jewel and resigning rather easily that it will never be more than copper. It would be a pretty memorable gaffe from that macro view.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aladyyn

Yatzhee

Registered User
Aug 5, 2010
8,813
2,317
He should be traded for a 2/3 d
We also have Asplund and Mittlestadt coming as soon as next year.

Unless we start making trades, we'll have 7 natural centers in our top 9, which is crazy to think about:
Eichel
ROR
Girgs
Larsson
Reinhart
Mittlestadt
Asplund​

So whatever happens, there's gonna be 4 centers playing wing. It's neither a crime nor a tragedy if Reinhart is one of them.
Middlestadt and Asplund along with Pu won't be in Buffalo next year.

There is n9 top end young help coming for another couple of years at least. Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, all right wingers, not all will make the roster.

Nylander? Not seeing it.

The Sabres pipeline and club roster are devoid of Chemistry and Talent.

Its going to be a long 5 more years.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad