Are The Sedins 1st Ballot Hall of Famers ?

[GreatGonzo]

Disagree.

Being 4th in scoring (16 pts/17% behind first place) and tied 2nd in goals (11 goals/21% behind first place) is probably better than...

Being 11th in scoring (34 pts/23% behind 2nd place) and tied for 17th in goals (29 goals/38% behind first place)... I'm not sure it's really debatable?

We are talking production. Of course his DPE point finishes are better, he was in his prime. Peak in terms of numbers, that's what I'm talking about

He had his highest point total in 1993, a huge year scoring. That's his personal best, how he finished league wide is irrelevant.

 

[bathdog]

We are talking production. Of course his DPE point finishes are better, he was in his prime. Peak in terms of numbers, that's what I'm talking about

He had his highest point total in 1993, a huge year scoring. That's his personal best, how he finished league wide is irrelevant.

That's an interesting take. So you have Yzerman the 3rd, Nicholls the 5th, and LaFontaine the 7th, best offensive players of all time.

Going to avoid continuing this conversation with you for obvious reasons, besides it being off topic.

To stay on topic, Sedin's almost certainly get in.

 

[Addison Rae]

Neither one deserves to even get into the HHOF, 1st ballot or later. It's supposed to be for legit Superstars. 1000 points is just not that special.

You don't seem to comprehend the fact that the Sedins aren't Patrick Marleau, they have individual accolades.

Henrik Sedin has won an Art Ross trophy, a Hart Trophy, and led the NHL in assists for 3 straight seasons. Look at precedence, how many players that have accomplished this have not been in the Hall of Fame? Suggesting that a player who won an Art Ross and Hart against peak Crosby and Ovechkin isn't a superstar is just utter garbage.

The Sedins were literally 1 win away from winning everything possible in ice hockey.

They have 2 Art Ross Trophies, 1 Hart Trophy, 1 Ted Lindsay, Olympic Gold Medal, World Championship Gold Medal and 3x assist leader.

I don't see what your adgenda is, you constantly make ridiculous claims about the Sedins without any evidence. If you're actually engaging in debate, construct an argument on how many players who have the accolades the Sedins have aren't/weren't considered superstars? If you're unable to do that than stop f***ing posting about them.

 

[GreatGonzo]

That's an interesting take. So you have Yzerman the 3rd, Nicholls the 5th, and LaFontaine the 7th, best offensive players of all time.

Going to avoid continuing this conversation with you for obvious reasons, besides it being off topic.

To stay on topic, Sedin's almost certainly get in.

What the hell are you talking about?

You probably should avoid this conversation considering your going off the rails.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I don't see what your adgenda is, you constantly make ridiculous claims about the Sedins without any evidence. If you're actually engaging in debate, construct an argument on how many players who have the accolades the Sedins have aren't/weren't considered superstars? If you're unable to do that than stop ****ing posting about them.

LOL. Look at you, running around swearing, and telling anyone that doesn't share your opinion what they can post and where. Well, I will post wherever I like, and I will state my opinions. You don't like it? Um.......Who cares?

I'm FAR from the only one in this thread who doesn't think either Sedin deserves a sniff at the hall of fame. Their little regular season "accolades" mean very little to me. They've had quiet careers, and will retire never having won a thing.

And to top it all off, one of the guys in question in this thread.....Henrik......doesn't even have 250 goals in his entire career and barely has 1000 points. That's not very worthy of the HHOF, in my opinion. He and his brother were good players. FAR from great players. And will now silently slink back home to Sweden with no cups, and one Olympic medal, under their captain, Mats Sundin, a real hall of famer.

Now stop trying to convince everyone else that your hero is "the best, OR ELSE". It's beneath you.

 

[Addison Rae]

I'm FAR from the only one in this thread who doesn't think either Sedin deserves a sniff at the hall of fame. Their little regular season "accolades" mean very little to me. They've had quiet careers, and will retire never having won a thing.

And to top it all off, one of the guys in question in this thread.....Henrik......doesn't even have 250 goals in his entire career and barely has 1000 points. That's not very worthy of the HHOF, in my opinion. He and his brother were good players. FAR from great players. And will now silently slink back home to Sweden with no cups, and one Olympic medal, under their captain, Mats Sundin, a real hall of famer.

Now stop trying to convince everyone else that your hero is "the best, OR ELSE". It's beneath you.

You clearly failed to answer the question presented. Which means you clearly don't have a legitimate argument. My argument is based on facts and precedence yours is based on a ridiculously biased opinion.

Suggesting the Sedins have won nothing and then turning around and glorifying a player that has significantly less team and individual accolades in Mats Sundin is just mind boggling.

Suggesting that a player who won a Hart Trophy, an Art Ross trophy, led the league in assists 3 years in a row, an Olympic Gold Medal, a World Championship Gold Medal and captained a team to game 7 of the finals is "far from great" and "not a superstar" is one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen on this forum.

Put it in your head when factoring in accolades the Sedins are significantly ahead of Mats Sundin, so when talking about players who never won a thing he's who you start with. Tell us what did Mats Sundin win that Henrik or Daniel Sedin haven't? I like Mats Sundin as a player, have nothing against him but this idea of putting down the Sedins due to lack of accolades and glorifying Mats Sundin is just appalling, and some of the most backwards logic possible.

 

[Addison Rae]

It's like if you have such a profound hatred for a player and post about them in every thread at least be able to construct an argument or retort other people's arguments, constantly throwing out statements like "they're not superstars11!" not "great" and "no accolades111" just makes you look foolish, especially when people easily debunk it.

Again if your gonna constantly flaunt your opinion, back it up. My posts stands, answer this or don't bother responding to my posts at all.


They have 2 Art Ross Trophies, 1 Hart Trophy, 1 Ted Lindsay, Olympic Gold Medal, World Championship Gold Medal and 3x assist leader.

How many players with this resume are not Hall of Famers? how many players with these accolades were not considered superstars or great?

 

[Semantics]

I was told by HF that you can't make the HHOF unless you win a cup, and that's why Sundin wasn't going to make it in. So I think the Sedins would be in tough by HF logic.

 

[ijuka]

What would be funny is if Henrik gets in and Daniel doesn't.

 

[bathdog]

What the hell are you talking about?

You probably should avoid this conversation considering your going off the rails.

What the hell are you talking about?

"Peak numbers" that aren't his peak?

It has no relevance whatsoever.

The only reason to bring his 114pts season up as peak or "peak" is to claim...

His 114pts season is > Sedin 112pts season - which it inarguably isn't.

That him posting "peak" numbers in higher scoring era affects his ppg avg (Sundin was 1 ppg player forever (he was 1.0ppg from 97-08) which is very impressive, but in no way, shape, or form did he ever post a higher peak season than Sedin) - which it inarguably doesn't.

Thus, all you do is add confusion to the subject.

 

[bathdog]

And to top it all off, one of the guys in question in this thread.....Henrik......doesn't even have 250 goals in his entire career and barely has 1000 points.

So what? Hardly the best benchmark.

Henrik doesn't have 250 career goals.
Forsberg doesn't have 250 career goals.

Henrik barely has 1000 career points.
Forsberg isn't close to 1000 career points.

Henrik's Hart season has was 29 goals which is also his career high.
Forsberg's Hart season was 29 goals which is 1 short of his career high.

Considering a Forsberg vs Sundin poll would get closed within 15 minutes, Henrik isn't a bad comparison at all.

 

[glovesave_35]

Henrik Sedin and Daniel Sedin, as individual players and not a trivia question package, were definitely superstars for a number of years. Claiming otherwise is foolish.

 

[GreatGonzo]

What the hell are you talking about?

"Peak numbers" that aren't his peak?

It has no relevance whatsoever.

The only reason to bring his 114pts season up as peak or "peak" is to claim...

His 114pts season is > Sedin 112pts season - which it inarguably isn't.

That him posting "peak" numbers in higher scoring era affects his ppg avg (Sundin was 1 ppg player forever (he was 1.0ppg from 97-08) which is very impressive, but in no way, shape, or form did he ever post a higher peak season than Sedin) - which it inarguably doesn't.

Thus, all you do is add confusion to the subject.

I never once called Sundin one of the greatest offensive players, I simply pointed out that his BEST and most High scoring offensive year came in a year where scoring was high. Not hard to understand.

I'm discussion the issue that was brought up about Sundin playing a high scoring era, which he didn't for most of his career, but his best offensive season came in a year where scoring spiked. That's all....simple? I thought so, but you have proven that it isn't. Peak year as in peak year offensively, as in he saw his best offensive year that one year, as in he scored a lot of points during a year when scoring was high....do you understand?

I never said he posted a higher peak season than Sedin in fact, I never compared the two.....your accusing me of things I haven't said and basing your argument off it. All I stated was that Sundin saw more offense when scoring was higher. He was very consistent after that and through out the DPE.

Maybe slow down and actually read what I said before you start assuming and accusing. Thanks.

If we are comparing Sundin to Sedin(let's go with henrik). Sundin was WAY more consistent, while Henrik had the better peak/prime.

 

[bathdog]

I never once called Sundin one of the greatest offensive players, I simply pointed out that his BEST and most High scoring offensive year came in a year where scoring was high. Not hard to understand.

I'm discussion the issue that was brought up about Sundin playing a high scoring era, which he didn't for most of his career, but his best offensive season came in a year where scoring spiked. That's all....simple? I thought so, but you have proven that it isn't. Peak year as in peak year offensively, as in he saw his best offensive year that one year, as in he scored a lot of points during a year when scoring was high....do you understand?

No, no, no, and no.

Best !== highest point total.

Crosby posted his highest point total in 06/07 - I think it's a minority position to claim that was his best offensive year.

Stick to the term highest point total or similar, thanks. (it's still unclear whether you actually believe that was his best offensive season)

I never said he posted a higher peak season than Sedin in fact, I never compared the two.....your accusing me of things I haven't said and basing your argument off it. All I stated was that Sundin saw more offense when scoring was higher. He was very consistent after that and through out the DPE.

That's a very misleading statement. Sundin posted 1.04ppg during 91-96. That stretch featured the 5 highest scoring (by a good margin) seasons of his career, as well as the 7th (05/06 snuck ahead). His career ppg is 1.0. He had one single season out of 6 that deviated a bit, it wasn't the norm.

If we are comparing Sundin to Sedin(let's go with henrik). Sundin was WAY more consistent, while Henrik had the better peak/prime.

Peak Sedin.
Prime Sundin.

 

[GreatGonzo]

No, no, no, and no.

Best !== highest point total.

Crosby posted his highest point total in 06/07 - I think it's a minority position to claim that was his best offensive year.

Stick to the term highest point total or similar, thanks. (it's still unclear whether you actually believe that was his best offensive season)



That's a very misleading statement. Sundin posted 1.04ppg during 91-96. That stretch featured the 5 highest scoring (by a good margin) seasons of his career, as well as the 7th (05/06 snuck ahead). His career ppg is 1.0. He had one single season out of 6 that deviated a bit, it wasn't the norm.



Peak Sedin.
Prime Sundin.

In terms of points accumulated through out his career, yes 1993 was his biggest year offensively. You really need to take a breathe and go back to where this convo started, then you decided to chime in.

The argument was that Sundins PPG career is a result of playing in a higher scoring era. We are talking straight up raw points. 1993 was his PEAK year offensively, totals that he never saw again, but he didn't fall off in terms of production overall. 1993 was a huge year offensively league wide though.

your over thinking the word "peak." I'm simply going off of his point totals, nothing reletive to how they finished among their peers or how much more impressive it looks due to era....just simply that he had more points, which was the statement made.

Again, your over examining this whole thing. I clearly meant he saw a bigger offensive season when scoring was higher, that doesn't mean he didn't have other impressive seasons during the DPE, just that his biggest came befor that. Simple.

I guess this is just up for debate. Sedin in his prime led the league in assists 3 times and was a two time First team AS. Although it was much shorter of a prime than Sundins, but one could argue it was more impactful.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Maybe what we SHOULD be asking is...........

What's better, a few good years but an overall uneventful career? Or walking away with more goals/points than any other Swede ever, in NHL history?

I prefer the latter, myself. The Sedins "accomplished" the first one.

Sadly, the HHOF has kinda low standards. So they will probably get in. But it shouldn't be on the 1st ballot.

 

[TheStroker]

Yes they will both get in. They both deserve it. Two brothers, twins no less, who played on the same team their entire career who showed such great chemistry, won MVPs, scoring titles, went to the SCF and pretty much had identical stats until injuries kept them apart. It truly is a remarkable feat, and I don't think we'll see again for a very long time.