Are the 2017/2018 Leafs legitimate contenders for the Cup?

Are the 2017/2018 Leafs legitimate contenders for the Cup?


  • Total voters
    233
Status
Not open for further replies.

LEAFANFORLIFE23

Registered User
Jun 17, 2010
45,389
14,256
So a fan is someone who "wants their team to WIN NOW" when they aren't a serious contender ?
That's a brain dead fan.
We haven't finished the rebuild.
When you don't do things in order, you build a straw house.

know it is hard for people to accept but the fact of the matter is, the rebuild portion is done.

I get why it is so hard to accept, because it was literally 11 months of true rebuilding

July 1 2015 was the start when they traded Kessel and the end was June 2016, they rebuilt in 11 months.

Usually they don't go that fast I get it but when you get your star #1 goalie and your franchise center within a 48 hour period like the Leafs did, that tends to end the rebuild real fast.

Since then they have not be acting like a rebuilding team.

Rebuilding teams don't trade picks for Bryan Boyle, and Fuppila was in that deal too but he blocked it so it was just Boyle in the end.

Rebuilding teams don't sign Patrick Marleau to a 3 year deal

Rebuilding teams don't go after Joe Thornton and Mike Condon.

The Leafs haven't been acting like a rebuilding team for a while now and the reason for that is that they are no longer rebuilding.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,092
38,154
I don't dispute, it isn't all or nothing.
At some level you are always rebuilding / planning for the future.

There are degrees of rebuilding and trying to field the best team possible.
Now is the time to rebuild.
Now is the time to move assets for the future.
Now isn't a time to "go all in".
Maybe the difference is the definition of "all in".
Not selling when in a playoff spot isn't what I would think to be the accepted definition of all in.
Trading high end prospects and high picks is what I think "all in" means, everything else is just building for the future and part of building is developing young players.
Good way to develop is putting them in a position to succeed.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,582
1,051
To me a contender is a top 8 team min and really a top 4. This team without Andersen sure isn't top 8 yet. We would be happy to win a round this year.
 

IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
8,226
2,649
Toronto
We had the cap space. 3 year deal is manageable.
Babcock likes Marleau and wanted his Leadership.
Still consistent with rebuilding.
While I agree that Marleau was a fine move on our end from the position of either a rebuilding team or a contending one, perhaps this particular situation would be best looked at through another perspective - Would Marleau have signed here if he thought we were still in that first stage of "rebuilding"?
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
20,124
10,634
Marleau have signed here if he thought we were still in that first stage of "rebuilding"?
Yes.
20 million for 3 years.
He didn't come to Toronto for a cup run that's for sure.
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,582
1,051
This team beats say Boston then takes Pitts to 7 games who then win a cup again ? That is a huge step given our stars are still too young. All our vets except JVR are well past their prime. They are training wheels and soon we will have to take them off. Winning a round for guys like Andersen, Mathews, Nylander, Marner, Reilly, Dermott, Zaitsev is huge. In the next year/season Hainsey, Marleau, Bozak, Komorov ,Martin and perhaps JVR will all be more or less gone or ineffective. We tried to get Thornton but didn't. To win the cup we would have needed Thornton and Karlsson this year.

Given the amount of money we spent to get Marleau his production is slowing down for sure, he will be bought out 3rd year.
 

LeafGrief

Shambles in my brain
Apr 10, 2015
7,616
9,532
Ottawa
I'm a solid maybe for this. We've got an elite offense and a goalie who is good enough to steal a series. Our defense is a work in progress, but it's been trending up all year and is looking quite solid with the revelation of Dermott and Gardiner finally pulling his head out of his butt. All of that still leaves us behind Tampa, Boston, or even Pittsburgh in the East, but I don't see any reason why we can't go toe to toe with them in a seven game series. We might be underdogs, but underdogs win series all the time, anything can happen after all. Even for the best teams in the league, literally everything has to go right to win the cup. Our positives are positive enough that if we put it all together and get a healthy dose of luck, we can take a real shot this year. Obviously I don't expect us to win or even make the ECF, but worse teams than the 2017-2018 Maple Leafs have gone deep.
 

I Believe

Registered User
Mar 5, 2011
4,144
1,115
Toronto
Meh, we're good enough. A simple hot streak can carry you to a cup final. Not sure how you look at a 100+ point team and say "yeah they have no chance."

Almost seems like other teams supposedly deserve their great goaltending, but when we get some we're just lucky. We're a good hockey team boys.

We're good and we're sustainable. We have Andersen this year with a save % a bit above his average, Rielly with a bit higher ppg then his usual, and that's about it. Teams above us have guys playing at insane unsustainable levels. Brad Marchand 107 point pace? Karlsson shooting 25%? Let's get real here. That's not lasting 82 games + playoffs.
 
Last edited:

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,669
6,302
Sarnia, On
To me a contender is a top 8 team min and really a top 4. This team without Andersen sure isn't top 8 yet. We would be happy to win a round this year.

What a bizarre statement. Last I checked Andersen was in fact on the team. Take any teams #1 Goalie away and they probably drop. Bruins Rask is a big part of their success, Tampa's boy is in Vezina talk, Rinne is a top goalie every year.

"Leafs are not contenders because they have a good goalie".

I'm going to put that in the Playoff Tank Nation Hall of Shame along with :

"The Leafs are not contenders because they have to go against other contenders"
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
To me a contender is a top 8 team min and really a top 4. This team without Andersen sure isn't top 8 yet. We would be happy to win a round this year.

1. We've received no better goaltending than most of the rest of the top teams. TB (.919) and BOS (.920) both have received better goaltending than TOR (.918).

2. The Leafs do just as well with McElhinney in net, and he has a much better sv% than Andersen, even though he only plays in the back end of back to backs, regardless of the quality of opponent, where our record should be worse.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
Meh, we're good enough. A simple hot streak can carry you to a cup final. Not sure how you look at a 100+ point team and say "yeah they have no chance."

Almost seems like other teams supposedly deserve their great goaltending, but when we get some we're just lucky. We're a good hockey team boys.

We're good and we're sustainable. We have Andersen this year with a save % a bit above his average, Rielly with a bit higher ppg then his usual, and that's about it. Teams above us have guys playing at insane unsustainable levels. Brad Marchand 107 point pace? Karlsson shooting 25%? Let's get real here. That's not lasting 82 games + playoffs.
There are no 100 point seasons in the playoffs.
Just 4 rounds of 7 games.
6 playoff games is not currently enough of a sample size for me to declare us a legit threat. For some that's enough.
It's great how you stack up against Boston or Tampa in game 42 on a night in January. Let me see the 7 game series.
They need to show me why they are keeping some players. I need to see. Not rifle through 20 advanced stat lines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SAMCRO44

IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
8,226
2,649
Toronto
There are no 100 point seasons in the playoffs.
Just 4 rounds of 7 games.
6 playoff games is not currently enough of a sample size for me to declare us a legit threat. For some that's enough.
It's great how you stack up against Boston or Tampa in game 42 on a night in January. Let me see the 7 game series.
They need to show me why they are keeping some players. I need to see. Not rifle through 20 advanced stat lines.
This is kind of why I don't think you can ever call a team a contender until they've straight-up proven they're a contender. Up until that point, you're just going off of hope, which, while fine, does not imply the kind of confidence one would normally have in a "legitimate contender". It's hard for me to call Vegas and Winnipeg contenders as well, despite their fantastic regular season records, until they make some serious noise in the Playoffs.
 

Nineteen67

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Dec 12, 2017
22,366
9,841
I don’t think this team is a contender, right now.
Let’s see after the trade deadline
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,582
1,051
So, the fact we have a winning record without Mathews means we don't need him? The argument is are we a contender now ? Or what are our odds this year? Is this one of the top 8 teams... maybe but Andersen has sure seen a lot of rubber. I would say our odds lie squarely on Andersen who has had a near Vezina and certainly MVP season. Let us say we have 1 in 20 odds of winning it this year but those odds increase as our core matures. Do you blow all your assets on a 1 in 20 chance? Because if Andersen gets hurt or fatigued, McBackup won't win a cup with our young defense. I just dont buy that we have to win it now with this very young core. We have more like 5 year window because we are losing all those bad contracts we are paying for Lupul, Gleason,Kessel etc. as our old guys expire. You pay the stars, you get rid of overpaid expiring vets and bring in cheap prospects as they leave. We have to for it now, is a myth created by the media who is jealous we wont have the issues other teams had if we keep and load up on cheap prospects. Take out JVR, Bozak, Komorov, Hainsey, Marleau, Lupul, Gleason and Kessel and you have about $25 Million to pay your stars with. I never said this was a bad team, it is inexperienced and so is our MVP Andersen. Go with what you have and see what happens first. Our vet core may not lead us anywhere after all only Hainsey has a ring. We are not ready but like everyone we have a chance but it aint 1 in 8. I'm not blowing the future, losing the first round and then getting into contract trouble because we have no prospects. In order to pay our core we will have shed expensive ,past their prime vets.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Andersen: .609pts%, .922sv%, 8.7so%, 3.37 goals per game
McElhinney: .600pts%, .932sv%, 20.0so%, 3.40 goals per game

McElhinney Opponents by Pts% Rank

#2 BOS
#6 WSH
#7 DAL
#11 LAK
#18 ANA
#19 CBJ
#24 NYR
#25 EDM
#26 DET
#26 DET
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,669
6,302
Sarnia, On
So, the fact we have a winning record without Mathews means we don't need him? The argument is are we a contender now ? Or what are our odds this year? Is this one of the top 8 teams... maybe but Andersen has sure seen a lot of rubber. I would say our odds lie squarely on Andersen who has had a near Vezina and certainly MVP season. Let us say we have 1 in 20 odds of winning it this year but those odds increase as our core matures. Do you blow all your assets on a 1 in 20 chance? Because if Andersen gets hurt or fatigued, McBackup won't win a cup with our young defense. I just dont buy that we have to win it now with this very young core. We have more like 5 year window because we are losing all those bad contracts we are paying for Lupul, Gleason,Kessel etc. as our old guys expire. You pay the stars, you get rid of overpaid expiring vets and bring in cheap prospects as they leave. We have to for it now, is a myth created by the media who is jealous we wont have the issues other teams had if we keep and load up on cheap prospects. Take out JVR, Bozak, Komorov, Hainsey, Marleau, Lupul, Gleason and Kessel and you have about $25 Million to pay your stars with. I never said this was a bad team, it is inexperienced and so is our MVP Andersen. Go with what you have and see what happens first. Our vet core may not lead us anywhere after all only Hainsey has a ring. We are not ready but like everyone we have a chance but it aint 1 in 8. I'm not blowing the future, losing the first round and then getting into contract trouble because we have no prospects. In order to pay our core we will have shed expensive ,past their prime vets.

It would be a great point if your numbers weren't make believe. You deciding we have a 1 in 20 chance does not make that reality.

I'm going to overrule you and declare our odds are 75% so now we have to go for it. You can all thank me later.
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,660
To me a contender is a top 8 team min and really a top 4. This team without Andersen sure isn't top 8 yet. We would be happy to win a round this year.

I'm pretty sure all the top 8 teams have high end goalies. Do the Pens win a Cup the last 2 years without elite goal tending?
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
6,582
1,051
So , what does Vegas say ? It won't be 75 percent. Going for it means landing a Karlsson now. You want to lose then have no prospects. Chicago won and had many. The media just wants us to overpay based on we have to win now. As Mathews, Nylander, Marner, Reilly, Brown all mature are odds increase and if you need some free agents you get them. Over rule me but put your money where your mouth is. You are giving me 75 percent odds eh? No fantasy there or bias. Very objective.
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
Had to look up some stats for a Calgary fan saying we were not a contender. Here is our record this season against other "contenders":

Nashville: 1 and 1
Boston: won 2 of 3
Washington: 1 and 1
Winnipeg: won only game
Vegas: 1 and 1
Tampa: lost only game

So overall we have a winning record against all the "contenders". Not one of them has owned us.
the record doesn't mean shit. nashville, vegas and washington dominated us and those teams are contenders + washington. if the leafs want to prove that they're elite, they gotta beat the contending teams. we beat the jets big because they had mason in net. change that to hellebyuk and we'd lose. we only beat nashville because of a skills competition. sure the game was close against tampa, but we were outworked by them, what a surprise there. the boston games we were outplayed and relied on mcelhinney to save us in the 2nd meeting. we aren't a contender by any means. we're close but not there yet
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->