Apparently "ice tilt" is real? Documents showing dynamic difficulty is a thing

[Hammettf2b]

I figured I put this in the Geek Emporium and not just the NHL series forum since it affects more games than just NHL.

Click to read more...

 

[x Tame Impala]

How does this thread have no replies yet?! This is pretty big news for almost every video game player, especially in regards to the EA NHL series.

This crap has existed for too long and it makes a lot of online experiences worse.

I'd honestly rather go back to NHL 09 glitch goals than this current state of "momentum" changes where players become slower, can't receive passes, can't pick up loose pucks, can't hit, and can't pass/shoot as well as they're capable of. Let alone goalies so routinely giving up goals in the final two minutes of games that it isn't even surprising anymore.

It's ironic this is done to keep players playing because it makes me never want to play online hockey again.

 

[XX]

All companies use a formula that pulls players towards a 50% WR. All forms of matchmaking across games. Only traditional server based 'jump in' games like Battlefield don't do this.

 

[Hammettf2b]

How does this thread have no replies yet?! This is pretty big news for almost every video game player, especially in regards to the EA NHL series.

This crap has existed for too long and it makes a lot of online experiences worse.

I'd honestly rather go back to NHL 09 glitch goals than this current state of "momentum" changes where players become slower, can't receive passes, can't pick up loose pucks, can't hit, and can't pass/shoot as well as they're capable of. Let alone goalies so routinely giving up goals in the final two minutes of games that it isn't even surprising anymore.

It's ironic this is done to keep players playing because it makes me never want to play online hockey again.

Agreed, this makes me not want to play any online game that does this. Too many companies are catering to the "casual" fan and the rest suffer because of it.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

It pretty much kills sports games. I just don’t understand it if your even paying alittle bit of attention you can see the game cheats you. I pretty much stopped playing nhl cause of it.

 

[kurt]

Obviously there's tilt, for obvious reasons. This is news?

 

[Unaffiliated]

All companies use a formula that pulls players towards a 50% WR. All forms of matchmaking across games. Only traditional server based 'jump in' games like Battlefield don't do this.

There's a big difference between using a chess-style matchmaking system and actually changing the balance of the game.

I've never played a sports game online, but that sounds pretty stupid. Is there at least a ranked matchmaking mode without this kind of thing?

 

[chicagoskycam]

All companies use a formula that pulls players towards a 50% WR. All forms of matchmaking across games. Only traditional server based 'jump in' games like Battlefield don't do this.

Disagree with all. The OP is concerning as it's referencing preferring players with more let's say micro transactions, ect. Anyone that has played EAHSL has definitely feel the ice tilt, especially if you have a couple computers on your team.

I get some of it and then I don't.

 

[Oscar Acosta]

Ice tilt was always obvious no matter how much they denied it, the frustration of it all killed a lot of online games for me and NHL altogether this year, didn’t buy it for first time since 93 and truly don’t miss it.

 

[KingBran]

Agreed, this makes me not want to play any online game that does this. Too many companies are catering to the "casual" fan and the rest suffer because of it.

I know plenty of people who aren't gamers but buy the PS4 / Xbox One... whatever the latest and greatest is just so they can play Madden, NHL... etc.

The core users of these games probably are your Joe Schmo's. Those ARE the people they most likely should be catering to with sports games. In the end they are still a business trying to keep customers happy with their product.

Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree with any of this, I am simply explaining why I think the casual gamer is a big market to cater to with sports games.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I know plenty of people who aren't gamers but buy the PS4 / Xbox One... whatever the latest and greatest is just so they can play Madden, NHL... etc.

The core users of these games probably are your Joe Schmo's. Those ARE the people they most likely should be catering to with sports games. In the end they are still a business trying to keep customers happy with their product.

Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree with any of this, I am simply explaining why I think the casual gamer is a big market to cater to with sports games.

unfortunately when a sports game doesn't have any competition, they are going to be catered to the masses.

 

[x Tame Impala]

This was the first year I didn't buy the new NHL game since 08 and hearing this stuff leaves me no excitement for buying a new one.

It's an acknowledgment that you will lose games for reasons completely out of your control. For something like online ranked matchmaking it defeats the purpose entirely. Why would I invest time (or extra $$$) in HUT when I can lose games based on random momentum swings that literally make the players on my team worse? It's very, very dumb.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Disagree with all. The OP is concerning as it's referencing preferring players with more let's say micro transactions, ect.

That's not necessarily what it says. It's saying that the algorithm which calculates how long a player will play a game; their engagement in the game whilist playing; and the ideal difficulty to keep a player playing, uses a players' history of microtransactions as one of the variables in calculation.

Which makes sense, common sense/sunk cost fallacy says that a player who has invested actual money into a game has a stronger incentive to keep playing it, or they invested that money because they plan to keep playing it.

My preconception is a game will move Heaven and Earth to avoid the label "pay-to-win". I don't see how fudging the games algorithm to prefer people who perform microtransactions will do anything other than keep people from playing the game because of the perception that they would need to constantly buy things if they want to win. I mostly play Blizzard games, and their in-game store is strictly cosmetic or technical support, save for a character level boost in WoW.

 

[CanadianHockey]

Honestly, I think they're mostly talking single player and game development applications.
Multiplayer becomes a source of controversy, given the increasing commercialization of competitive e-sports.

Even if we're going to assume ice tilt is a real thing that's been implemented already (the paper doesn't definitively state which games the tech has been applied to, or even for how long the tech has been around - and that patent is from 2017), I have noticed it far more in SP than in MP in NHL.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Didn't read the article but yeah, we've all suspected ice tilt to be a real thing in NHL for a while now. The article doesn't address any specifics for NHL but after playing almost 300 online vs games in NHL 16 there's definitely a rubber band effect within individual matches. I won't ever quit a game even when I go down by 3 or 4 goals in the first period against a seemingly better opponent because I know the game is going to let me catch up.

 

[blue425]

Dynamic difficulty has been a thing in the shmup genre for 20 years+, except it is called rank. It differs from game to game but essentially the better you do the harder the game becomes.

Of course while it might be OK in a single player arcade style game I can see why you wouldn't want it in your sports titles.

 

[RandV]

My preconception is a game will move Heaven and Earth to avoid the label "pay-to-win". I don't see how fudging the games algorithm to prefer people who perform microtransactions will do anything other than keep people from playing the game because of the perception that they would need to constantly buy things if they want to win. I mostly play Blizzard games, and their in-game store is strictly cosmetic or technical support, save for a character level boost in WoW.

Yes that's true but there's other ways to tackle that, Activision just patented a process to use matchmaking to sell microtransactions. Something to do with using machine learning to figure out what a player may want, then using matchmaking/other players to sort of advertise it.

 

[PALE PWNR]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...expansion-mode.2354407/page-27#post-135035247

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I figured I put this in the Geek Emporium and not just the NHL series forum since it affects more games than just NHL.

I've known that EA Ice-Tilt is a thing in NHL for quite a while now, it's not a surprise to me at all.

I was within the top 200 for each NHL in Versus for a number of years and it was pretty easy to tell when the sliders were against you. As the reddit post mentions, it's a way to maximize engagement... Inexperienced/inferior players are not going to keep playing if they're getting smacked every game, so EA helps make up some of the difference by artificially making the casual better and dumbing down the superior player.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I've known that EA Ice-Tilt is a thing in NHL for quite a while now, it's not a surprise to me at all.

I was within the top 200 for each NHL in Versus for a number of years and it was pretty easy to tell when the sliders were against you. As the reddit post mentions, it's a way to maximize engagement... Inexperienced/inferior players are not going to keep playing if they're getting smacked every game, so EA helps make up some of the difference by artificially making the casual better and dumbing down the superior player.

Wouldn't a better matchmaking system be better?

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Wouldn't a better matchmaking system be better?

Damn sure would.

But once you get to the maxed level there isn't much of a way to tell the difference, EA did introduce the "Competetive Rating" feature this year, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with match-making.

And when you're in a drop-in game with 11 other humans you can't really be too strict with match making.

 

[Nickmo82]

They should get this shit out of games. It's infuriating and the reason why I don't see myself playing any EA NHL games for the foreseeable future. In my opinion, it's a game breaking mechanic. I HATE the fact that the AI can score 3 goals on 10 shots whereas I have to put up 45 shots for the same result.

Why take difficulty out of the players hands? They have gameplay sliders - let me decide the level of difficulty and engagement.

 

[aleshemsky83]

It was always obvious, the cpu especially always got 2 quick goals when they were down late no matter what. I don't play anymore and that's one of the reasons.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

They should get this **** out of games. It's infuriating and the reason why I don't see myself playing any EA NHL games for the foreseeable future. In my opinion, it's a game breaking mechanic. I HATE the fact that the AI can score 3 goals on 10 shots whereas I have to put up 45 shots for the same result.

Why take difficulty out of the players hands? They have gameplay sliders - let me decide the level of difficulty and engagement.

Because EA wants to make the game in a way that maximizes the overall engagement of players, aka people playing the game more than they would under different circumstances. The simple way they try to explain it is so that players don't get too bored (if they're good) or too frustrated (if they're bad).

Superior players are not going to keep playing the game if they're dominating their opponents every game, and inferior players are not going to keep playing the game if they're getting crushed every game.

That being said, I think that Dynamic Difficulty is a pathetic way for them to artificially balance out their games and is, literally, game breaking.

 

[Nickmo82]

Because EA wants to make the game in a way that maximizes the overall engagement of players, aka people playing the game more than they would under different circumstances. The simple way they try to explain it is so that players don't get too bored (if they're good) or too frustrated (if they're bad).

Superior players are not going to keep playing the game if they're dominating their opponents every game, and inferior players are not going to keep playing the game if they're getting crushed every game.

That being said, I think that Dynamic Difficulty is a pathetic way for them to artificially balance out their games and is, literally, game breaking.

That's what the gameplay sliders are for, no? Tweak it to your heart's content and, if there's no ice tilt to bugger it up, bingo. Balance.