any chance the WJHC will go someplace new?

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Chief

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Jun 19, 2003
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Mountain Dude said:
How come people don't realize that putting the tournament in new places won't bring more fans to the game. Sports are culturally derived, and unless the sport already has deep roots there, its not going to get very big, which is why hockey will never be popular in the Southern States.

As a general theory, you have to start somewhere, and the Dallas Stars (and other Texas teams) prove that hockey can be popular in the south. Texas has at least 10 pro teams, including 9 alone in the ECHL, which also includes a few other Southern teams (and don't forget the 2 or 3 junior teams that are based in Texas in the NAHL).
 

Puckhead

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Jun 13, 2004
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Jocus said:
How many new hockey fans will you produce if you hold the tournament in Canada?

You won't inspire kids to start playing hockey by having the tournament in Canada, or at least not to the same degree of showcasing this talent to people who don't know much about hockey.

Its true that millions of people watch the tournament in Canada, but these people are die hard hockey fans, they don't need more convincing that hockey is the best sport in the world.
How does hosting a tournament in a market or country where it is barely recognized help the sport? Do you honestly think that having a 10 day tournament will turn people on to the sport just because their City or Country are hosting it?

Bettman tried that with his southern states expansion plan, and remind me again, how that turned out? The facts are the facts, hockey belongs in certain markets, and won't work in others. The WJC is no different, and actuall because it is such a short tourney, they have to make the most of it, so it really doesn't make sense to experiment.
 

Beakermania*

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Puckhead said:
How does hosting a tournament in a market or country where it is barely recognized help the sport? Do you honestly think that having a 10 day tournament will turn people on to the sport just because their City or Country are hosting it?

Bettman tried that with his southern states expansion plan, and remind me again, how that turned out? The facts are the facts, hockey belongs in certain markets, and won't work in others. The WJC is no different, and actuall because it is such a short tourney, they have to make the most of it, so it really doesn't make sense to experiment.


How about rewarding fans who would support it, sure Canada gets it a lot, but we are a big nation, it being in Vancouver does nothing more for me than it being in finland interms of me being able to go to games. Vancouver is like a three or 4 day drive from where i am in Hamilton. We support the sport, we should get more games before a country that won't show up to games should. Bring it to Toronto 2009.
 

Jazz

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dawgbone said:
The problem is, the host city is usually decided before the relegation pool is decided... we don't know which teams will come up from the B pool for 2006, but we already know it's in Vancouver.

Not only that - it is decided over 2 years in advance. After Vancouver in 2006, Sweden has the U20s in 2007. Can't give teams an automatic berth if they are to do a promotion/relegation system.

This might be another reason in my arguement to expand the WJC to 12 teams. That way, a team like Belarus which is currently hovering between promotion and relegation might become a mainstay in the 9th to 10th ranking (which in a 12 team tournament would not mean relegation), and thus consideration for hosting the tournament.

Speaking of Belarus, anyone know how they supported the U18s when it was hosted there last April??
 

McDonald19

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Sep 9, 2003
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H-Bear said:
Ok, you are a hard working Japanese family. You are deciding how to spend your disposable income. You see the Worlds coming to town, but wait, your Japanese team didn't even get invited to the tournament. Why the hell would you pay to go watch that??

If its in Japan, then Japan would be in the tournament automatically.
 

Beakermania*

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McDonald19 said:
If its in Japan, then Japan would be in the tournament automatically.

Okay so why would you pay to watch Japan play Canada in a "foregone conclusion". Why do i want to see my country get slaughtered by 10 + goals.
 

arrbez

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Jun 2, 2004
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J17ster said:
Yeah i'm outside a major hockey nation and i've heard of a lot. While i can see the benefits of holding it in Canada because of revenue i it simply isn't going help the growth of hockey. Once every 3 years i'd put the Wj in small kockey nation. If hockey grows it has gotta start becoming even more global. I mean the only big hockey parts are North America, Russia, Czech Republic and Slovakia (still doesn't have hellavu lot of players) and northern europe (Sweden and Finland). To me that isn't big enough. Maybe Japan wouldn't flock to see AO and Giddy Sid but if they see more hockey slowly it will be more popular and therefore more players and hockey becomes more global.

yeah, i'm not saying that hockey should never exist in "non-hockey" countries. i'm saying that the best way to spread it is it show people the best. i'm not much of a soccer fan, but i might go see a game if ronaldo and beckham and all those guys came to town. but i wouldn't pay to go see 17 year olds i've never heard of play soccer. when you're selling a sport in a new area, you've got to sell the stars, not the game itself. this is why it's so important for expansion teams to develop an "identity" with a player like ilya kovalchuk or paul kariya, for example
 

LaVal

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Dec 13, 2002
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McDonald19 said:
If its in Japan, then Japan would be in the tournament automatically.

i'm sure Naslund, Forsberg, and Sundstrom would all readily agree that Japan should be in the tournament.
 

TORRUS

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May 31, 2004
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McDonald19 said:
If its in Japan, then Japan would be in the tournament automatically.

Imagine what would Belarus had to say if Japan gets an automatic berth. That would be unfair towards those teams that are on the verge of making the highest level. Belarus, Germany, Latvia...
I don't disagree with the idea of having it in Japan, but the automatic berth for the host country doesn't sound fair! You can do that in football (soccer) because the tournaments are big and have a lot of teams, but in a 10 teams tournament...
 

God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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How did Germany do for attendance in 1992? I know that when Switzerland hosted the tournament in 1997, it was an utter catastrophe at the gate. The games were poorly attended, and you can be sure that while the players loved the scenery and the pretty ladies, they didn't enjoy playing in front of a few hundred fans. Switzerland would have to prove, in my opinion, that they would be able to attract thousands of fans to each game to ever warrant putting the tournament back there.

Helsinki has hosted it five times because it's really the only market in Finland capable of doing it.

For a country to host this tournament, it needs at least two excellent hockey facilities within a few hours of each other. It needs to be able to attract several thousand fans to each game. It needs to be able to put together a well-organized, hard working committee, filled with people who know the game. It needs to have a strong network of fans already in the country. I doubt that China or Japan would be able to attain any of these.

The two most important things for this tournament are the players and the competitive balance. The competitive balance has been stretched enough as it is already with 10 teams. The players must be thought of, as well, and we can't have them playing in front of a few hundred spectators.
 

svetovy poharu

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Dec 7, 2004
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The 1992 WJC in Germany, from all accounts, was fairly attended. But the eisstadion capacities were somewhat limited since the arena in Kaufbeuren only holds 4560 (1000 seats, 3560 standing) and the arena in Fussen has just 1691 seats and room for 2000 standing. Some of the game attendances for the 1992 WJC in Germany are listed below:

CAN vs Germany - 4000 att., USA vs Finland - 1500, Switzerland vs CAN - 550,
USA vs Germany - 4000 att., CAN vs Sweden - 2500, USA vs Switzerland - 1000,
Finland vs CAN - 1500 att., Sweden vs USA - 700, Canada vs USA - 3000,
USA vs USSR - 1500 att., CZE vs CAN - 3500, Canada vs USSR - 4000

As for the poor attendance at the 1996-97 WJC tournament held in Switzerland, this article may help to explain the reasons why.
It is from Canadian Press, dated January 5, 1997, titled:

Swiss tournament filled with holes

GENEVA -- The sea of empty seats at Vernets Arena for games at the World Juniors suggests immediately this isn't Winnipeg, Hamilton, Red Deer or Trois-Rivieres. And that's precisely the message tournament director Otto-Max Fischer delivered as the tournament ended, having drawn only 30,000 spectators to 31 games in Geneva and Morges, Switzerland.

Fischer said: "When the IIHF gave us the tournament, they knew a World Juniors in Switzerland is not comparable to a world juniors in Canada. The world juniors are respected in Canada like nowhere else in the world. People here in Europe read of the word junior and it makes them think of kids, small boys, which it isn't."

Fischer said the Swiss Ice Hockey Federation knew when it awarded the tournament to Geneva and Morges that crowds would be small and that local interest would be minimal. He said the tournament in Switzerland will lose between
$200,000 and $300,000 on a budget of about $1 million. Fischer said, "From a sporting standpoint, it's been excellent."

As for the meagre crowds seen by television audiences daily in Canada, he said: "We knew it would be like that before, so we're not disappointed. It was a chance to develop hockey in the region and strengthen the culture of hockey here in Switzerland."

But politics played a role in the tournament being held in Geneva. Switzerland will play host to the 1998 Senior World Championship in Zurich and Basel in the majority German-speaking part of the country, where hockey is more popular. However, to keep the peace, the federation gave the junior event to the French-speaking region known as Romandy, where hockey is less popular. The federation did this to make sure both sides got an event.
 

TORRUS

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May 31, 2004
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I think that having it in Germany would be a great idea! For example in Koln. There is a beautiful and big arena in Koln and there are many areans around. That part of Germany (Ruhr) is very inhabited (I would say about 25 million) and very well conected. France is close, Belgium is close, Netherlands, Danmark. They are not big hockey countries but within 300 kilometers from Koln there is probably more than 100 million people living. With good advertisement and propaganda and great organizing (Germans are, along with the Japanese, the best organizers in the world), the tournament could do just great. GO GERMANY!!!
 

Puckhead

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Beakermania said:
How about rewarding fans who would support it, sure Canada gets it a lot, but we are a big nation, it being in Vancouver does nothing more for me than it being in finland interms of me being able to go to games. Vancouver is like a three or 4 day drive from where i am in Hamilton. We support the sport, we should get more games before a country that won't show up to games should. Bring it to Toronto 2009.
If by "we" you mean the people of Toronto or the GTA, then I will have to agree and disagree with you, here's why...

Yes we are a crazy hockey market, however when it comes to almost anything that isn't Toronto Maple Leaf related, this market really isn't all that enthused about it. I am with you, if they brought the tourney to Toronto, I would love it, however, history speaks for itself.

The OHL really is not that well received with the St. Mikes Majors, when they hosted the Draft day in '02 it was a disaster. I know that really isn't the same thing, but my point is that it is a very short tournament, and they have to maximize their profits. So by choosing not to have it in Toronto, there must be a very good and profitable reason for it.

As far as exposure goes, there would be no better place, but you need to back that up with fannies in the seats. By and large this is not a hockey market, it is very much however a Maple leaf market. The fans want the best and nothing else really seems to measure up or is worth their time.

The NHL is undoubtedly the best league in the world, so you have Leafs fans and season ticket holders on waiting lists for their chance to put a 2nd mortgage on the house just so that they can get their Leafs fix first hand.

Now you have the St. Johns Maple Leafs coming to town next season, and while it is hard to argue with bringing them here, it would make call ups easier, and the fans can watch the prospects grow worthy of a spot ont the parent team. Do I think it will work? No, not really, because this town wants the big show, it has to be NHL or nothing.

As I said before this is not how I feel personally, because I love junior hockey and would absolutely be thrilled to see the WJC here, that is just how I see the situation around Toronto.
 

dawgbone

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Jun 24, 2002
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Puckhead said:
If by "we" you mean the people of Toronto or the GTA, then I will have to agree and disagree with you, here's why...

Yes we are a crazy hockey market, however when it comes to almost anything that isn't Toronto Maple Leaf related, this market really isn't all that enthused about it. I am with you, if they brought the tourney to Toronto, I would love it, however, history speaks for itself.

The OHL really is not that well received with the St. Mikes Majors, when they hosted the Draft day in '02 it was a disaster. I know that really isn't the same thing, but my point is that it is a very short tournament, and they have to maximize their profits. So by choosing not to have it in Toronto, there must be a very good and profitable reason for it.

As far as exposure goes, there would be no better place, but you need to back that up with fannies in the seats. By and large this is not a hockey market, it is very much however a Maple leaf market. The fans want the best and nothing else really seems to measure up or is worth their time.

The NHL is undoubtedly the best league in the world, so you have Leafs fans and season ticket holders on waiting lists for their chance to put a 2nd mortgage on the house just so that they can get their Leafs fix first hand.

Now you have the St. Johns Maple Leafs coming to town next season, and while it is hard to argue with bringing them here, it would make call ups easier, and the fans can watch the prospects grow worthy of a spot ont the parent team. Do I think it will work? No, not really, because this town wants the big show, it has to be NHL or nothing.

As I said before this is not how I feel personally, because I love junior hockey and would absolutely be thrilled to see the WJC here, that is just how I see the situation around Toronto.

To be honest, the WJC would make a killing in the GTA. While junior hockey does not get a tonne of support here, at least OHL junior hockey, you are only looking at The St. Mike's Majors.

Let's not forget that Kitchener, Oshawa, Barrie, Peterborough and Guelph are all within a 2 hour drive. That also doesn't include the Brampton's and Mississauga's, who while don't have great attendance numbers (about 2500 each), would still provide decent crowds.

If you have the tournament in the GTA, and use the ACC for semi-final and final games, you will have huge attendance numbers.

From what I heard, when Toronto was bidding to host the 06 tourney, they had sold a fairly large number of packages (at least collected deposits on them)... and if I recall, those packages only guaranteed at most 2 games featuring Canada.
 
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