Player Discussion Anton Slepyshev back to the nhl?

[Hopelesslucicfan]

I know it’s not a politically correct opinion... but I can’t help but feel like this org is very “traditional” in a don cherry sense. Slepyshev, pak, jp all spent last year fighting for a spot that was gifted to a good ol North American kid.

It seems like if you’re not a well established foreign player when you get here, your chances of being put in a spot to succeed are slim.

Where as cagguila, cammy, Rattie, Lucic and strome were given every chance to succeed in a scoring position, and guys like kassian and our other bottom 6ers we’re dressed all the time even after having very forgettable stretches, and Pak only got in because we needed a PKer, and even that took way longer than it should have. Hell even benning over guys like auvitu.

I dunno, I hate to believe something like this could be a real factor, but fact that those are the days the coaches were raised in makes me wonder, especially when it’s so glorified with Don Cherry still being on TV.

 

[KMart27]

I know it’s not a politically correct opinion... but I can’t help but feel like this org is very “traditional” in a don cherry sense. Slepyshev, pak, jp all spent last year fighting for a spot that was gifted to a good ol North American kid.

It seems like if you’re not a well established foreign player when you get here, your chances of being put in a spot to succeed are slim.

Where as cagguila, cammy, Rattie, Lucic and strome were given every chance to succeed in a scoring position, and guys like kassian and our other bottom 6ers we’re dressed all the time even after having very forgettable stretches, and Pak only got in because we needed a PKer, and even that took way longer than it should have. Hell even benning over guys like auvitu.

I dunno, I hate to believe something like this could be a real factor, but fact that those are the days the coaches were raised in makes me wonder, especially when it’s so glorified with Don Cherry still being on TV.

Or maybe you are biased toward the Europeans for whatever reason and are seeing what you want to see. The only two players that you could make any argument that they were "gifted" a spot were Lucic and Strome. Both have proven themselves in the NHL far more than the others.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Or maybe you are biased toward the Europeans for whatever reason and are seeing what you want to see. The only two players that you could make any argument that they were "gifted" a spot were Lucic and Strome. Both have proven themselves in the NHL far more than the others.

You honestly believe cagguila and rattie weren’t gifted spots?

Maybe it is a bias on my end. I mean, I don’t have a preference on player nationality, as long as they play for the oilers it’s all the same to me.

I’m probably just being overly pessimistic about this, but it was just something I noticed.

 

[nabob]

Or maybe you are biased toward the Europeans for whatever reason and are seeing what you want to see. The only two players that you could make any argument that they were "gifted" a spot were Lucic and Strome. Both have proven themselves in the NHL far more than the others.

Caggulia was definitely gifted a spot. Both Strome and Lucic are legit NHL players.

 

[RandomGuy79]

So our coach/gm are intentionally icing a worse lineup to just not give Europeans a chance?

 

[Drivesaitl]

You honestly believe cagguila and rattie weren’t gifted spots?

Maybe it is a bias on my end. I mean, I don’t have a preference on player nationality, as long as they play for the oilers it’s all the same to me.

I’m probably just being overly pessimistic about this, but it was just something I noticed.

You forgot Kassian. The worst effort by any player on the team all season and was afforded 74GP. his effort level was deplorable on most nights and he was rarely engaged. This player was scratched 3 games not due to injury. So that he played nearly all that he was available to play in.

Pak played 40 while being a workhorse and doing everything asked of him, being good on pk, hitting, being abrasive. He's gone for that after being scratched more than half the season.

Slepy played 50 and is now gone.

Double standards all over the place in anycase. It seems to me is if you're a player that Chia brought in you are on a different standard of some sort. I've often thought that McLellan's lineup card is seeing some micromanaging. I mean how on Earth could Lucic play that season and not be scratched one game? Its uncanny.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

You forgot Kassian. The worst effort by any player on the team all season and was afforded 74GP. his effort level was deplorable on most nights and he was rarely engaged. This player was scratched 3 games not due to injury. So that he played nearly all that he was available to play in.

Pak played 40 while being a workhorse and doing everything asked of him, being good on pk, hitting, being abrasive. He's gone for that after being scratched more than half the season.

Slepy played 50 and is now gone.

Double standards all over the place in anycase. It seems to me is if you're a player that Chia brought in you are on a different standard of some sort. I've often thought that McLellan's lineup card is seeing some micromanaging. I mean how on Earth could Lucic play that season and not be scratched one game? Its uncanny.

Im not too upset about losing Slepy and Pak, but you are right about how Kassian should of been benched over them with how his efforts were this season, was a pathetic display by him. I don't know how much of that is McLellan trying to neuter him.

 

[rboomercat90]

I know it’s not a politically correct opinion... but I can’t help but feel like this org is very “traditional” in a don cherry sense. Slepyshev, pak, jp all spent last year fighting for a spot that was gifted to a good ol North American kid.

It seems like if you’re not a well established foreign player when you get here, your chances of being put in a spot to succeed are slim.

Where as cagguila, cammy, Rattie, Lucic and strome were given every chance to succeed in a scoring position, and guys like kassian and our other bottom 6ers we’re dressed all the time even after having very forgettable stretches, and Pak only got in because we needed a PKer, and even that took way longer than it should have. Hell even benning over guys like auvitu.

I dunno, I hate to believe something like this could be a real factor, but fact that those are the days the coaches were raised in makes me wonder, especially when it’s so glorified with Don Cherry still being on TV.

It could very well be this or maybe the organization starts getting the feeling some of these guys aren’t as committed as the North American kids are because they won’t be bolting to Europe if they get discouraged. I brought it up a few years ago when Yakimov left that the team should probably stop drafting Europeans unless they’re “can’t miss” prospects. If they can’t step in right away maybe they should avoid them. We don’t seem to be getting anywhere with them. They don’t seem willing to spend years in the AHL (if that’s what it takes) to develop their games. I can’t say I blame them when they could make similar or better money in Europe and be much closer to family and friends at home.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It could very well be this or maybe the organization starts getting the feeling some of these guys aren’t as committed as the North American kids are because they won’t be bolting to Europe if they get discouraged. I brought it up a few years ago when Yakimov left that the team should probably stop drafting Europeans unless they’re “can’t miss” prospects. If they can’t step in right away maybe they should avoid them. We don’t seem to be getting anywhere with them. They don’t seem willing to spend years in the AHL (if that’s what it takes) to develop their games. I can’t say I blame them when they could make similar or better money in Europe and be much closer to family and friends at home.

Just as a forgotten point Belov came here highly cited as a Russian D and is now a stalwart D with SKA. He's considered one of the best D in the KHL. Has some offensive flare as well. He didn't get the time of day here and didn't get enough trust from the org to take it to the next level. He could have been a good one here. I liked the player. Its interesting that when Lowe was higher up here he was reasonable at finding D talent but less good at feeling like retaining it. AS guys like Petry are evidence of, I just think that the org for years devalued its own D. They thought they were never good enough and so it was just a perpetual revolving wheel. I think even this has something to do with Lowe feeling that he was better than any of them. Just my theory. Conjecture really but just the kind of arrogant cat Lowe is.

Being that Belov is on the same team, SKA, as Koskinen its a good thing Anton don't hold no grudges. He wasn't afforded the chance he was promised here. Really I don't know how the Oil are even getting these redo's on Russian talent. We have to have a bad rep there by now.

Where I differ with you is I think regarding Russian players a critical lack of attention is occurring. I detect players (like Slepy) feeling that regardless of what they do they are not getting the chance here. How could Slepy and Pac really feel they were given a fair shake this season. They were always the first scratch option regardless of how bad several others were playing. Slepy by his own admission felt it wasn't happening here with the Oilers and wanted out. I dunno, other teams have success. I kind of thnk we could have Panarin and find a way to f*** that up.

 

[KMart27]

You honestly believe cagguila and rattie weren’t gifted spots?

Maybe it is a bias on my end. I mean, I don’t have a preference on player nationality, as long as they play for the oilers it’s all the same to me.

I’m probably just being overly pessimistic about this, but it was just something I noticed.

Caggiula bounced all over the lineup and was also a healthy scratch at times. He also finished tied for 5th on the team in goals. Rattie spent the vast majority of the season in the AHL. He got an opportunity with McDavid, just like Puljujarvi and Slepyshev also got, and Rattie took advantage of it.

If you want to argue that Puljujarvi should have got more ice time and more opportunities with McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH that is fair and I am inclined to agree. Did it take far too long to move Lucic down in the lineup, absolutely. Slepyshev and Pakarinen were generally used according to their performance and abilities I believe.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Caggiula bounced all over the lineup and was also a healthy scratch at times. He also finished tied for 5th on the team in goals. Rattie spent the vast majority of the season in the AHL. He got an opportunity with McDavid, just like Puljujarvi and Slepyshev also got, and Rattie took advantage of it.

If you want to argue that Puljujarvi should have got more ice time and more opportunities with McDavid/Draisaitl/RNH that is fair and I am inclined to agree. Did it take far too long to move Lucic down in the lineup, absolutely. Slepyshev and Pakarinen were generally used according to their performance and abilities I believe.

CAGG played 67 games. He played more minutes per game than Slepy did. He scored 10EV goals while playing TONS of time in topsix lines. Something Slepy rarely got.

Cagg also had ample use on pk where his numbers were running worst among forwards in GA all season. Even EV he's -13 despite having good linemates. Slepy was -4 on the year playing with dirt performances like Kassian.

Cagg got 66mins on PP this season. He's not even proficient there. Slepy had an astounding 6mins on the PP all season. I say astounding because he's more of a natural sniper and has better hands than Cagg has. Try to explain the Oilers inept PP this season and Slepy with a good shot never being there.

Heres the deal. Whey Slepy finally got a chance in topsix with McD this season he started scoring as well. He just didn't get to stay there like others do. I do think he could have done the same as Rattie given the chance.

Goes without saying Slepy plays a much more physical game than Cagg, is far better at board work and protecting the puck and cycles excellently with Drai who he saw only 56mins all season.


This team, for whatever reason were not interested in Slepy being a continued player here.

 

[MessierII]

Goes without saying Slepy plays a much more physical game than Cagg

I disagree with this statement. Slep is much bigger but Caguilla throws way more hits than Slep.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I disagree with this statement. Slep is much bigger but Caguilla throws way more hits than Slep.

The NHL version of hits is very strange. By the metric Drai doesn't hit and yet he's almost always bumping people off pucks. He physically bumps them right off pucks with ease but no hit. A pint sized Cagg goes nuts trying to take somebody out and everything is a hit. Its odd. Sometimes I really think small players get credited with more hits for some reason. I can't explain it. But guys like Drai, Slepy are certainly extremely physical on the boards all the time. You'd look at NHL stats and think they were Lady Byng candidates. Theres not a more physical forward on the club than Drai (well Lucic) and Drai gets no hits credited. Same with Slepy. Its a strange stat. Anybody really think Drai had only 40hits this season? He destroyed guys out there almost that many times. A Dozen times at least an opponent was laid out on the ice.

Slepy plays a big man game and thus why he was so effective with Drai. Both are real hard to get off the puck. Cagg gives up the puck routinely getting squeezed off it. In board battles I would take Slepy easy over Cagg.

 

[KMart27]

CAGG played 67 games. He played more minutes per game than Slepy did. He scored 10EV goals while playing TONS of time in topsix lines. Something Slepy rarely got.

Cagg also had ample use on pk where his numbers were running worst among forwards in GA all season. Even EV he's -13 despite having good linemates. Slepy was -4 on the year playing with dirt performances like Kassian.

Cagg got 66mins on PP this season. He's not even proficient there. Slepy had an astounding 6mins on the PP all season. I say astounding because he's more of a natural sniper and has better hands than Cagg has. Try to explain the Oilers inept PP this season and Slepy with a good shot never being there.

Heres the deal. Whey Slepy finally got a chance in topsix with McD this season he started scoring as well. He just didn't get to stay there like others do. I do think he could have done the same as Rattie given the chance.

Goes without saying Slepy plays a much more physical game than Cagg, is far better at board work and protecting the puck and cycles excellently with Drai who he saw only 56mins all season.


This team, for whatever reason were not interested in Slepy being a continued player here.

Tons of time in the top 6 is a definite exaggeration. Maybe he got that extra time because he produced more and played with more energy than Slepyshev.

Terrible numbers on a terrible PK. He had great numbers on the PK last season.

Try to explain why Slepyshev and his good shot scores so few goals.

He got a couple points with McDavid. Don't see how did anywhere near enough to remain there long term.

That is a claim that can't be taken seriously.

It's very clear that you are a Slepyshev fan. That's fine. It makes you quite subjective though.

 

[Digger12]

It's actually quite amazing when you look back at the entire Oilers drafting history since 1979. You can't find a single Russian forward that's ever been drafted by them that ever turned into what would be considered a success. Arguably their best success was Anatoli Semenov around 30 years ago, and he was drafted as a 27 year old so he wasn't exactly developed by the team. And he got sent away in a couple years anyway.

This team, it should just stop drafting them. It is genetically incapable of having any success with them for whatever reason.

 

[rboomercat90]

Just as a forgotten point Belov came here highly cited as a Russian D and is now a stalwart D with SKA. He's considered one of the best D in the KHL. Has some offensive flare as well. He didn't get the time of day here and didn't get enough trust from the org to take it to the next level. He could have been a good one here. I liked the player. Its interesting that when Lowe was higher up here he was reasonable at finding D talent but less good at feeling like retaining it. AS guys like Petry are evidence of, I just think that the org for years devalued its own D. They thought they were never good enough and so it was just a perpetual revolving wheel. I think even this has something to do with Lowe feeling that he was better than any of them. Just my theory. Conjecture really but just the kind of arrogant cat Lowe is.

Being that Belov is on the same team, SKA, as Koskinen its a good thing Anton don't hold no grudges. He wasn't afforded the chance he was promised here. Really I don't know how the Oil are even getting these redo's on Russian talent. We have to have a bad rep there by now.

Where I differ with you is I think regarding Russian players a critical lack of attention is occurring. I detect players (like Slepy) feeling that regardless of what they do they are not getting the chance here. How could Slepy and Pac really feel they were given a fair shake this season. They were always the first scratch option regardless of how bad several others were playing. Slepy by his own admission felt it wasn't happening here with the Oilers and wanted out. I dunno, other teams have success. I kind of thnk we could have Panarin and find a way to **** that up.

What i was trying to say is maybe these guys are giving the organization reasons (behind the scenes) that they aren’t committed to being here and as a result, the team stops being committed to them. I’ve got no way of knowing of course and am only speculating. This isn’t a recent thing either as it’s been going on for years with several different people in charge. Like I said, if this is what’s going on or the team is just bias against Europeans then I wish they’d just stop drafting them.

 

[nexttothemoon]

I don't have a lot to say that hasn't already been stated by others... but just wanted to say some good points have been made and some well thought out observations expressed in this thread.

 

[Senor Catface]

I like Cagguila and Sleps, but Replacement is right, Cags has gotten way more chances.

58.7 percent of the time he was playing EV with either McDavid or Drai.

Comparatively, Slepyshev only saw 20 percent of his EV time with either of those two.

Either way it'll be interesting to see two things:

1) The revealing overseas interview. It seems like when players go back to Russia there's always some very open and honest interview about what happened with their time in the NHL.

2) What fake source JTS will have next.

 

[Senor Catface]

I don't have a lot to say that hasn't already been stated by others... but just wanted to say some good points have been made and some well thought out observations expressed in this thread.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Tons of time in the top 6 is a definite exaggeration. Maybe he got that extra time because he produced more and played with more energy than Slepyshev.

Terrible numbers on a terrible PK. He had great numbers on the PK last season.

Try to explain why Slepyshev and his good shot scores so few goals.

He got a couple points with McDavid. Don't see how did anywhere near enough to remain there long term.

That is a claim that can't be taken seriously.

It's very clear that you are a Slepyshev fan. That's fine. It makes you quite subjective though.

The Wowy stats aren't lying. Cagg got several times as many topsix minutes this season than Slepy did. Cagg indeed spent most of his time in topsix,

"Played with more energy" This is one of those small player biases. Because they are buzzing around doing something its perceived they are an energy player. Cagg is another "chased by bee's" type player in my book. Looking like doing a lot out there but very ineffective and not good at puck battles or retaining possession. The GA stats for CAgg are not this high EV and PK by complete accident. He's an easy player to play against. He's NHL fill, worse, that he's spending most of it on topsix.

Unlike Caggiulia, virtually everytime Slepy was seeing topsix minutes this year or last I saw a player that could make some plays, possess puck, protect it, play rugged out there on the boards. Sure Slepy had some real off times and I think too much flirting in his mind with going back home. But I also think the Oilers by not utilizing him greatly contributed to those thoughts over time. Finally in the playoffs last season I thought "wow, the Oilers are finally using this kid" Then its this season and that proper use of the player evaporates. Rewatch some of the playoff games from last season and tell me that Slepy lacks talent or ability to play some topsix minutes or gasp even on PP which he was never getting.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Heard somewhere Slepyshev came into camp out of shape. He had good games but was also invisible in others.

The thing that peeved me off the most all season was Tmac giving these guys (pak, Shlep, Jesse, Etc) top line mins and they would look good. The next game the idiot would blend the lines. No fricking consistency. Not building on any line momentum or chemistry. The only player he stuck with was Lucic. I think that was a huge factor in us sucking this year .

 

[McDNicks17]

He won't be a great loss, but I don't know how anyone can be happy with how he was used.

Why even trade for a guy like Aberg when you have a very similar player that you're just counting down the days to kick to the curb? This is the exact type of player this team needs. Young, cost-controlled winger that can shoot and muck in the corners a bit.

It's not like he showed no signs of being able to play with talent either. Both McDavid and RNH had their second highest 5v5 P/60 with Slepyshev.

 

[nabob]

Heard somewhere Slepyshev came into camp out of shape. He had good games but was also invisible in others.

The thing that peeved me off the most all season was Tmac giving these guys (pak, Shlep, Jesse, Etc) top line mins and they would look good. The next game the idiot would blend the lines. No fricking consistency. Not building on any line momentum or chemistry. The only player he stuck with was Lucic. I think that was a huge factor in us sucking this year .

He had an ankle sprain which set him back and forced him to miss most of camp. Instead of playing 5 or 6 games in the Bake he was immediately put into the lineup, in a position to fail. When that happened he was quickly banished to the bottom 6 and pressbox. I don't think he was handled well at all by TMac, and probably knew by the mid point of last season that he wasn't coming back next year.

 

[nabob]

It's not like he showed no signs of being able to play with talent either. Both McDavid and RNH had their second highest 5v5 P/60 with Slepyshev.

Critics will claim "small sample size". A smart person will question why the coach refused to use pairings and combinations that worked. It supports the claim that Slepy would look great in the top 6 for a game and then for whatever reason be right back in the bottom six next game. I can see how a player would be frustrated.

 

[KMart27]

The Wowy stats aren't lying. Cagg got several times as many topsix minutes this season than Slepy did. Cagg indeed spent most of his time in topsix,

"Played with more energy" This is one of those small player biases. Because they are buzzing around doing something its perceived they are an energy player. Cagg is another "chased by bee's" type player in my book. Looking like doing a lot out there but very ineffective and not good at puck battles or retaining possession. The GA stats for CAgg are not this high EV and PK by complete accident. He's an easy player to play against. He's NHL fill, worse, that he's spending most of it on topsix.

Unlike Caggiulia, virtually everytime Slepy was seeing topsix minutes this year or last I saw a player that could make some plays, possess puck, protect it, play rugged out there on the boards. Sure Slepy had some real off times and I think too much flirting in his mind with going back home. But I also think the Oilers by not utilizing him greatly contributed to those thoughts over time. Finally in the playoffs last season I thought "wow, the Oilers are finally using this kid" Then its this season and that proper use of the player evaporates. Rewatch some of the playoff games from last season and tell me that Slepy lacks talent or ability to play some topsix minutes or gasp even on PP which he was never getting.

You see what you want to see with Slepyshev and like some others you view it as Slepyshev vs. Caggiula.

Is it your view that the coaching staff had an agenda against Slepyshev?