Anger and Frustration Spill Over Into Rant

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,077
5,676
Ottawa
Only a handful of 'good' playoff seasons. Regular seasons were awesome back then, playoffs not so much minus the finals appearance. I still remember how electric the city was. Car flags everywhere. People on the streets waiving huge Senator flags. Everyone wearing red. Post game celebration downtown. The greet at the airport had thousands of fans. It was incredible

Yeah the team from 1997 to 2007 had a tonne of good support. That was a solid team, and even with all the playoff losses, it was fun to be a fan of one of the best teams in the league for almost a decade.

Unless you fluke out and get top 3 picks in the right seasons to draft The Kanes, Crosbys, Malkin's and Toews of the world, you're not going to have a run where you hit the finals more than once or twice a decade, and that's if you're lucky. This is the reality of what it is to be a hockey fan. You're going to lose more than you win. A playoff win is more than 22 teams get a season.

Yeah the Sens suck right now, it doesn't look good. But one of two things are going to happen soon.

Either they turn things around next season and do half decent, or they suck terribly and the rebuild begins. Either way, things get better.

So I dunno, it sucks when they suck, but its good when they win. I don't let it really get to me either way, its just a silly game at the end of the day.
 
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Handles1919

Registered User
Jul 27, 2016
178
124
ottawa
Yeah the team from 1997 to 2007 had a tonne of good support. That was a solid team, and even with all the playoff losses, it was fun to be a fan of one of the best teams in the league for almost a decade.

Unless you fluke out and get top 3 picks in the right seasons to draft The Kanes, Crosbys, Malkin's and Toews of the world, you're not going to have a run where you hit the finals more than once or twice a decade, and that's if you're lucky. This is the reality of what it is to be a hockey fan. You're going to lose more than you win. A playoff win is more than 22 teams get a season.

Yeah the Sens suck right now, it doesn't look good. But one of two things are going to happen soon.

Either they turn things around next season and do half decent, or they suck terribly and the rebuild begins. Either way, things get better.

So I dunno, it sucks when they suck, but its good when they win. I don't let it really get to me either way, its just a silly game at the end of the day.
rebuild doesnt begin because colorado have our pick
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
34,884
9,305
Yeah the team from 1997 to 2007 had a tonne of good support. That was a solid team, and even with all the playoff losses, it was fun to be a fan of one of the best teams in the league for almost a decade.

Unless you fluke out and get top 3 picks in the right seasons to draft The Kanes, Crosbys, Malkin's and Toews of the world, you're not going to have a run where you hit the finals more than once or twice a decade, and that's if you're lucky. This is the reality of what it is to be a hockey fan. You're going to lose more than you win. A playoff win is more than 22 teams get a season.

Yeah the Sens suck right now, it doesn't look good. But one of two things are going to happen soon.

Either they turn things around next season and do half decent, or they suck terribly and the rebuild begins. Either way, things get better.

So I dunno, it sucks when they suck, but its good when they win. I don't let it really get to me either way, its just a silly game at the end of the day.

I think that's why it's so important to give Boucher a whack on the back of the head and knock some sense into him. Boring hockey is hard to watch. Chances are we're not winning a Cup no matter what style we play, so at the very least, allow our top guns the freedom to play some firewagon hockey.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
It all starts with Melnyk and won't change as long as he owns the Sens.

Let's hope he decides to sell high with the increase in value created by the Lebreton deal. Empty the arena from now till the end of the season to let him know the fan base is done with his antics.
 

SensFactor

Registered User
Oct 25, 2008
11,003
6,175
Ottawa
Trading Turris was the last straw. Dumb Dorion was so giddy about Duchene in the press conference that he didn't even thank Turris for all his time in Ottawa and the community. Even when a reporter asked about turris he blurted out this day isn't about turris but about Duchene. That shows existing players on the team the lack of gratitude Dorion had for Turris. I remember watching and thinking that exiting Sens players are going to be a bit pissed losing a key guy from the locker room and also more pissed with Dorion's demeanor in the press conference. Well since that trade we have been horrible. Dorion has to go.. Hes a lightweight GM in a league full of heavyweights and is getting knocked out with some of his deals.
 
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lancepitlick

Registered User
Nov 20, 2016
375
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I want to start by expressing I have been a Senators fan for a long time; I started back during Alfy's Calder year. I mention this to preface the fact that I have seen this team during the best of times and the worst of times.

Despite peaks and crashes, I have always supported the team and was proud to be a fan. I would get angry, dislike (or outright hate) some players, get pissed off, annoyed, sad, and every other type of emotion one could experience during those very bad or heartbreaking seasons.

During all that time though, I never was embarrassed to be a Senators fan. That has all changed this season. I never thought I would see the day that I pass on putting on one of my Sens hoodies, hats, or jackets before leaving the house, or throwing on a Sens shirt for the day.

But this iteration of the Ottawa Senators is so dysfunctional, so poorly managed, and so poorly led that I can't even stomach throwing one of these on and wearing it. My house is littered with tasteful Senators decor, and I get disgusted sometimes just walking through my house.

On paper this is one of the most talented Senators teams the franchise has ever assembled. On the ice it is an absolute embarrassment. What makes this season so much different for me in accepting the results, is an honest lack of understanding why. There are some obvious answers that immediately come out - but I reject those answers as being to coincidence. Can we really believe this many guys are just having "bad years?" It defies logic.

This franchise has a deep and cancerous tumor that needs to be rooted out. As much as I disliked Bryan Murray, I feel like he was the one holding everything together and keeping this systematic rot bottled up. With his passing, this has all bubbled over and its spilling out; and we're seeing the results.

I struggle to find someone to blame for this. Is it one person? Is it a lot of people?

Do I blame Melnyk for not being able to financially support the team as he promised and as a good hockey owner would? Do I blame him for meddling too much in hockey operations and driving away key components that would make this franchise a success instead of a laughing stock?

Do I blame Dorion for making the roster decisions he has made? Should he be blamed for letting Boucher dictate the guys the Senators keep and go after to sign? But how can one believe that the loss of Neil, Methot, Kelly, and Stalberg really could sink this team so low after the success of last year? How could one believe that a swap of Turris for Duschene would be the reason for such a meteoric fall in the standings? Logically these personnel choices make sense (for the sake of on ice talent, not asset management).

Do I blame Karlsson for an utter and total lack of leadership? I know Alfredsson's skates are tough to fill, but I haven't seen this team so leaderless perhaps ever. During the lowest points of other seasons you could visibly see Alfredsson trying to set an example on the ice. He showed leadership, he showed emotion. He took responsibility for things. He spoke to the media with care and the right words. He held closed door meetings and held players responsible. Karlsson does none of this. When we need him most he seems to have disappeared and is having perhaps the worst season of his career, and all he seems to have anything to say is about his contract and what he is worth.

He has taken no responsibility, and he as shown zero leadership on the ice. It begs the question if he even wants to be here. And if not, why? Is it ownership? Is it coaching? Is it the city? If he doesn't want to be here why do we want to keep him? Should we rebuild the franchise around his value?

Do I blame Boucher for playing a system that handcuffs our teams offensive potential, and stifles creativity for some of our most creative and gifted offensive talents? Are the players responsible for listening to the coach and playing his system, or is the coach responsible for designing a system that best suits the players abilities? Is Boucher's system just junk? Has the rest of the league figured it out? Why does he continue to seem optimistic and show no concern for the pitiful on ice performance night in and night out?

Do I blame the goaltending? Could it really be that one of the best tandems in the NHL last year have become arguably the worst this year? What would cause such a thing? There were no major changes to their life, offseason surgeries, new equipment, new coaches, or any other significant changes whatsoever that you could point to and say "ahhh thats what happened." Yet night in and night out they leak pucks into their net like a sieve.

There are so many questions, and so few answers - it is heartbreaking. I am do disgusted with the state of this franchise, I don't even know how to begin to offer suggestions to fix it. There are ZERO encouraging signs that things are going to get better, only worse. With depleted draft picks, albatross salaries, a checked out superstar captain, a broken play-style, an inept GM, and to top it all off a meddling owner who can't afford to provide the capital an NHL franchise needs to be successful.

One might take solace in the fact that we have guys like White, Chabot, Chlapik, and Brown to look forward to, but chance can we hope that these players will succeed on a franchise as ruinous as ours?

TL;DR - A longtime fan who has been through the good and the bad, but never seen things so bad before. Feels like there is no hope in near future, and the franchise is ****ed. Totally depressed about it, and embarrassed to be a Sens fan right now.

I think it helps to know that sometimes everything just does go wrong. Statistically it is bound to happen at some point. You should be just as perplexed about this run as the Hamburgler run or even last years playoffs. All are statistical anomalies to some degree.

Off years, Karlsson injury, Expansion Draft, Goalie got old, Young Players too Young, Bad FA Signing, Big Trade Disrupting Chemistry, Owner being an idiot ETC....sometimes it just all goes down at once.
 
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PeterSidorkiewicz

HFWF Tourney Undisputed Champion
Apr 30, 2004
32,442
9,701
Lansing, MI
I also get the sadness and frustration, but honestly we have been a bit spoiled as a franchise too. How many small market sports teams that have been around for only 25 years have as much overall success as the Ottawa Senators, even though ultimately we haven't won the cup yet? Some dark days were probably inevitable.

I don't think someone like Blues/Wild/CBJ fans would have any empathy for us whatsoever. :D
 

BankStreetParade

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
6,743
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Ottawa
Trading Turris was the last straw. Dumb Dorion was so giddy about Duchene in the press conference that he didn't even thank Turris for all his time in Ottawa and the community. Even when a reporter asked about turris he blurted out this day isn't about turris but about Duchene. That shows existing players on the team the lack of gratitude Dorion had for Turris. I remember watching and thinking that exiting Sens players are going to be a bit pissed losing a key guy from the locker room and also more pissed with Dorion's demeanor in the press conference. Well since that trade we have been horrible. Dorion has to go.. Hes a lightweight GM in a league full of heavyweights and is getting knocked out with some of his deals.

Who are all these heavyweights you're talking about? There's less than a handful of teams who own the championships of the last decade.

What about the Edmontons, Arizonas, Carolinas, Floridas, Buffalos and Dallas' of the world? What have they all done that's so special that they should be seen as much better organizations than us? Or do you equate a strategy of bottoming out and hoping for the best with some sort of next level genius thinking?

The list goes on and on of teams that have done absolutely nothing for the last 10-15 years.

Tell me about the heavyweight GMs in Long Island, Vancouver, Calgary, Montreal, Winnipeg, Minnesota and New Jersey.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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It all starts with Melnyk and won't change as long as he owns the Sens.

Let's hope he decides to sell high with the increase in value created by the Lebreton deal. Empty the arena from now till the end of the season to let him know the fan base is done with his antics.


With the attendance averaging somewhere around the 16K - 16.5K mark (depending on source) I would suggest there is not as much support, to "empty the Arena, as you think there is.

Therefore the "fan base" is not as done "with hi antics" also, as you'd like to believe as well.

I would suggest that the move to Lebreton is supported by a large majority of Senators fans, and him being able to get that done is going to increase the number of supporters.

Ottawa Senators [NHL, 1992-2018] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
With the attendance averaging somewhere around the 16K - 16.5K mark (depending on source) I would suggest there is not as much support, to "empty the Arena, as you think there is.

Therefore the "fan base" is not as done "with hi antics" also, as you'd like to believe as well.

I would suggest that the move to Lebreton is supported by a large majority of Senators fans, and him being able to get that done is going to increase the number of supporters.

Ottawa Senators [NHL, 1992-2018] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

Care to wager on maintaining the 16-16.5K for the remainder of the season?

The move to Lebreton is supported because it is good for the long term health of NHL hockey in Ottawa, with or without Melnyk and/or the Sens. However, the future would be vastly improved if Melnyk sold the team to an owner willing to spend on running a first class organization.

Emptying the building allows Sens fans to let Melnyk know that his business choices with regards to the franchise are unacceptable.

You can choose to waste your money supporting Melnyk in the vain hope he'll spend more operating the franchise, but the wise choice is to feed him financial pain until he sells or changes his tune.
 

Pierre from Orleans

Registered User
May 9, 2007
26,276
17,604
With the attendance averaging somewhere around the 16K - 16.5K mark (depending on source) I would suggest there is not as much support, to "empty the Arena, as you think there is.

Therefore the "fan base" is not as done "with hi antics" also, as you'd like to believe as well.

I would suggest that the move to Lebreton is supported by a large majority of Senators fans, and him being able to get that done is going to increase the number of supporters.

Ottawa Senators [NHL, 1992-2018] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
How many of those in attendance are really Sens fans? I know a handful of fans of other teams who buy packages to see their team as well. There are also casual watchers of the game and not true fans.
 

tony d

Registered User
Jun 23, 2007
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Behind A Tree
Seems like once we got Duchene that really hurt our season. When's he a UFA? I think I'd kick the tires on trading him this summer.
 

topshelf15

Registered User
May 5, 2009
27,993
6,005
We need a superstar center ,and another star forward to build around up front....We arent going to get those pieces this draft....So we need to just build up some solid depth,and work up from there
 

TeamRenzo

Registered User
Jul 20, 2009
3,163
1,064
Meh, this is the ebb and flow of sports, It sucks but it happens. I would gladly take this piss poor season as a trade off for last years playoff run, I was lucky enough to watch a lot of games with my 10 year son.

Could you imagine being a fan of Cleveland Browns or Coyotes or some crappy franchise that never seems to do well?
 
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swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
23,584
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This. Murray was basically that govt. guy that is loved by everyone but ultimately is a loser, knows he's a loser, but everyone has his back because he's a lovable loser. He was too in love with local guys like Donovan, Boro, Carkner, these skill-less guys that would be great when last Murray came close, in the late 90's early 2000's.

Alfie is a leader and seen as one now, but let's not forget those series with very few points against the Leafs, turning it over to the Sabres. It took a threat to trade him for him to grow up into the one we love.
The team needs a complete cleanup. We need a young, smart man who will build with speed, speed, speed and rid of these crap grinders we have an overabundance of. We need an experienced coach (Q might be available if the 'Hawks clear him if they miss) but more than all of that? More than anything?

We need to be mean, we need to be heartless and we need to get a plan, a long-term one and stick to it. Clear out or run out of town anyone that can't skate like his ass is on fire and that can't handle the puck and move the puck. No loyalty unless you fit that descriptor. Then, in 3-5 years you have a team of mid to late 20 year olds and win. And yeah, I've had seasons on and off and I'm going back to single games after this year.

GIVE ME A DAMNED REBUILD AND DO IT RIGHT.
We can take it. We took close to 20 years of mediocrity (5 good seasons out of 25) so we'll be there if there is a plan.

Rebuilding is stupid. It's something kids do in Xbox games, and stuff marketing teams use to sell tickets. It's loser stuff. We have a good core, we have one of the best players in hockey, we have lots of promising prospects. We need to trim the fat, inject some youth and have another crack at it.

Purposely losing games in the present does not guarantee future success.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
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Meh, this is the ebb and flow of sports, It sucks but it happens. I would gladly take this piss poor season as a trade off for last years playoff run, I was lucky enough to watch a lot of games with my 10 year son.

Could you imagine being a fan of Cleveland Browns or Coyotes or some crappy franchise that never seems to do well?

Agreed. Parity in the NHL is insane. Look at the standings this year compared to last. Colorado, Edmonton, Chicago, Vegas are all performing insanely different than expected. One bad streak can derail a season, and once it's derailed, it's hard to get back on track.

Not only that, but I don't know how people can say we're doomed to mediocrity and that we need to go to one extreme or the other. That's not how hockey works. First of all, last season was not mediocrity, we were in the final 3. We made the playoffs 16 of the last 20 seasons. That's not mediocrity.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,742
30,929
Rebuild is just a label. If we draft a top three pick this year, move out some of the non-core guys and start the next year with a couple of the prospects in the lineup making an impact, people will say we successfully rebuilt.

Next year, we could theoretically start the year with Chabot, White, Brown and Formenton (the latter two being less likely) in the lineup, along with our 1st round pick (Dahlin/Svechnikov perhaps?). That's a significant turnover from the start of this year, particularly when you include Duchene in for Turris. If you add in trading Phaneuf, and shedding guys like Burrows and Oduya, we could have a very different looking roster.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
23,584
12,966
Rebuild is just a label. If we draft a top three pick this year, move out some of the non-core guys and start the next year with a couple of the prospects in the lineup making an impact, people will say we successfully rebuilt.

Next year, we could theoretically start the year with Chabot, White, Brown and Formenton (the latter two being less likely) in the lineup, along with our 1st round pick (Dahlin/Svechnikov perhaps?). That's a significant turnover from the start of this year, particularly when you include Duchene in for Turris. If you add in trading Phaneuf, and shedding guys like Burrows and Oduya, we could have a very different looking roster.

Agree with this. This is the correct way to rebuild, and the course of action we should take.

The sad thing is that some people don't believe that's a rebuild. They'll call it a re-tool. Some people, in this thread especially, believe rebuilding is selling everything, drafting a 1st overall franchise player and automatically winning a cup 6-7 years from now. But they don't realize that's not how it works in the real world.
 

PoutineSp00nZ

Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Jul 21, 2009
20,077
5,676
Ottawa
rebuild doesnt begin because colorado have our pick

Exactly. That's why I don't see the Sens tearing it down this season. They'll try to shuffle the deck, imptove and give it a run next year.

If they still suck they still suck and give Colorado a good pick. Although hopefully not as good as this seasons.

Then they tear it down next off-season and start from scratch.

They should be able to get a haul for karlsson, and some decent shit for guys like Hoffman and ceci. Then good rental prices for Duchene and brassard.

It will be a hell of a start to a rebuild.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,742
30,929
Agree with this. This is the correct way to rebuild, and the course of action we should take.

The sad thing is that some people don't believe that's a rebuild. They'll call it a re-tool. Some people, in this thread especially, believe rebuilding is selling everything, drafting a 1st overall franchise player and automatically winning a cup 6-7 years from now. But they don't realize that's not how it works in the real world.
At the end of the day all that matters is adding an impact player to the roster. Given how bad this year has gone and the quality of the top end of this draft, we can potentially do that without tearing it all down.

I still think moving one of Phaneuf of Ryan will be key towards structuring our salaries in the future, so that's a hurdle to be addressed, but a core of Duchene, Hoffman, Stone, Karlsson, Chabot and a top 3 pick this year could make us a pretty good team moving forward, and that doesn't even account for guys like White, Brown, Chlapik, Batherson, or Formenton.

Now, if we had our top players in the late 30's, that's a different issue altogether; if Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, and Hoffman were all 35 plus, you can't argue that the time to move them for younger players is now, particularly if we aren't realistically competing for a cup.
 
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coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,813
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Care to wager on maintaining the 16-16.5K for the remainder of the season?

The move to Lebreton is supported because it is good for the long term health of NHL hockey in Ottawa, with or without Melnyk and/or the Sens. However, the future would be vastly improved if Melnyk sold the team to an owner willing to spend on running a first class organization.

Emptying the building allows Sens fans to let Melnyk know that his business choices with regards to the franchise are unacceptable.

You can choose to waste your money supporting Melnyk in the vain hope he'll spend more operating the franchise, but the wise choice is to feed him financial pain until he sells or changes his tune.

Ok, sit at home dude. He just landed a landmark deal that will transform the city landscape. He isn't going anywhere.
 

swiftwin

★SUMMER.OF.PIERRE★
Jul 26, 2005
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At the end of the day all that matters is adding an impact player to the roster. Given how bad this year has gone and the quality of the top end of this draft, we can potentially do that without tearing it all down.

I still think moving one of Phaneuf of Ryan will be key towards structuring our salaries in the future, so that's a hurdle to be addressed, but a core of Duchene, Hoffman, Stone, Karlsson, Chabot and a top 3 pick this year could make us a pretty good team moving forward, and that doesn't even account for guys like White, Brown, Chlapik, Batherson, or Formenton.

Now, if we had our top players in the late 30's, that's a different issue altogether; if Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, and Hoffman were all 35 plus, you can't argue that the time to move them for younger players is now, particularly if we aren't realistically competing for a cup.

Agree so much. An underated aspect of the Duchene-Turris trade is the fact that Duchene is 2.5 years younger. Turris is going to be 30 next year. That trade gave us salary flexibility, age felxibility, and a more impactful player.

Silver Seven had a good article today: The Senators Don’t Need a Rebuild—They Need to Trim the Fat

Our core is young, our prospects are promising. This whole tear it down talk is so shortsighted.

The only wildcard in all of this is Melnyk. Who knows what he might do. He could tell Dorion to sell everything so he can afford his new arena.
 

DrEasy

Out rumptackling
Oct 3, 2010
10,986
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Given the budgetary limitations placed on the GM by the owner, it seems to me that if the GM simply had stopped trading his assets and relied on drafting (a strength of ours) and re-signing his own players (players we have actual insider info on) we would have been more successful, AND we could have saved money on professional scouts (if we do have any, not sure given the result of our trades).
 

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