Player Discussion Andrew Shaw II - Playoff Edition

[417]

He led with his whole body in flight on Jackman.

that's not what I was referring too...the poster I quoted said that Shaw "has a history of leading with his head into players".

You showed me a clip of shaw leaving his feet to check Jackman in the shoulder.

There's no sane player who tries to lead with his head to take a head shot at another player. That's near suicidal.

 

[WickedPegJets]

If Andrew Shaw were to retire, would Bergevin have to pay him his remaining contract in full or do the Habs have insurance to cover that?

Bergevin’s mistake (yes, another one) was trading with his ex-boss Stan Bowman who needed to rid of Shaw because the Hawks had no cap space and because in Game 5 of the playoff series against the Blues (who had never beaten Chicago before) in which Chicago and St. Louis were tied 2-2 and Shaw was effective, after Shaw was assessed a penalty, he uttered a homophobic slur and was suspended for Game 6 which the Blues won and the Blues also won Game 7 in Chi-Town.

After getting Shaw, Bergey was highly criticized for handing him a long-term rich contract. Bergey liked Shaw’s grit, can score, a good checker and a player many opposing players hated to play against.

 

[417]

This was the only GIF I could find, but he often leads with his chest/face instead of his shoulder like this.

I don't know where you see that he's leading with his head here...that makes no sense.

I mean you even see him put his arms in front of his chest to protect himself.

 

[Tyson]

Another ill advised signing. Can this GM do anything that does not turn to crap?

 

[Tighthead]

If Andrew Shaw were to retire, would Bergevin have to pay him his remaining contract in full or do the Habs have insurance to cover that?

Bergevin’s mistake (yes, another one) was trading with his ex-boss Stan Bowman who needed to rid of Shaw because the Hawks had no cap space and because in Game 5 of the playoff series against the Blues (who had never beaten Chicago before) in which Chicago and St. Louis were tied 2-2 and Shaw was effective, after Shaw was assessed a penalty, he uttered a homophobic slur and was suspended for Game 6 which the Blues won and the Blues also won Game 7 in Chi-Town.

After getting Shaw, Bergey was highly criticized for handing him a long-term rich contract. Bergey liked Shaw’s grit, can score, a good checker and a player many opposing players hated to play against.

A contract is payment for services. If you retire you aren’t providing the service so you don’t get the payment.

I’m not sure if players insure themselves individually, or if they are all insured for career-ending injuries.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Reminds me of this.

Not as bad though. Thank God. That injury led to the personal destruction of Kevin Stevens. I remember watching that game too on TV. One of the scariest moments ever. Difference is Shaw fell backwards & he was wearing a helmet properly whereas Stevens fell face first into the ice.

Stevens hit, the Malarchuk skate to the throat, Pronger getting hit in the chest with a slap shot taking 2 steps then passing out & Trent McCleary taking a slap shot to the throat on the pk somehow getting up & getting to the bench before passing out, are all injuries that are burned in my mind from watching them.

All unintended, all accidents from playing a dangerous game. The Shaw hit falls into the same category.

Shaw went in for a hit & his head collided with Pateryn's head. There was no intent there other than to make a hit.

The only problem I have with the whole thing is Pateryn punching Shaw in the face not once but twice. He may not have known Shaw was out when he made the first punch, but Shaw was obviously down. The second punch was unnecessary & stupid.

 

[googlymoogly]

Another ill advised signing. Can this GM do anything that does not turn to crap?

When he craps he does not have to turn it into crap since it is already crap.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Ask Junior Seau.....oh wait.

I mean there is a larger issue here in that the NHL doesn't take CTE seriously. Their concussion protols (spotters, quiet rooms) is laughable.

This season alone both Montoya & Price were out with concussions after hard slapshots to the head. In both situations they were bowled over by it & it was obvious that they were feeling the effects of the shots. Both played on - in a f***ing lost season too.

 

[junyab]

I don't know where you see that he's leading with his head here...that makes no sense.

I mean you even see him put his arms in front of his chest to protect himself.

You're taking this too literally. If I'm skating towards you to body check you, I turn before I hit to lead with my shoulder. Shaw often doesn't turn, so he goes straight into them. Call it leading with his chest, or arms in front of his chest, heinrich maneuver position, or face first. This is the type of hit that we're talking about. It's extremely dangerous and offers very little protection to the hitter. It can lead to heavy blows/collisions to unprotected heads/faces or abdomens. This is taught very early on in minor hockey when hitting is introduced.

 

[417]

You're taking this too literally. If I'm skating towards you to body check you, I turn before I hit to lead with my shoulder. Shaw often doesn't turn, so he goes straight into them. Call it leading with his chest, or arms in front of his chest, heinrich maneuver position, or face first. This is the type of hit that we're talking about. It's extremely dangerous and offers very little protection to the hitter. It can lead to heavy blows/collisions to unprotected heads/faces or abdomens. This is taught very early on in minor hockey when hitting is introduced.

Regardless...and I don't agree with your description above and what happened, it doesn't mean a freaking concussion is essentially what he deserved for it as many have suggested here.

Getting harder and harder to cheer for this team...and it's not only because of what the GM has done/doing.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Not as bad though. Thank God. That injury led to the personal destruction of Kevin Stevens. I remember watching that game too on TV. One of the scariest moments ever. Difference is Shaw fell backwards & he was wearing a helmet properly whereas Stevens fell face first into the ice.

Stevens hit, the Malarchuk skate to the throat, Pronger getting hit in the chest with a slap shot taking 2 steps then passing out & Trent McCleary taking a slap shot to the throat on the pk somehow getting up & getting to the bench before passing out, are all injuries that are burned in my mind from watching them.

All unintended, all accidents from playing a dangerous game. The Shaw hit falls into the same category.

Shaw went in for a hit & his head collided with Pateryn's head. There was no intent there other than to make a hit.

The only problem I have with the whole thing is Pateryn punching Shaw in the face not once but twice. He may not have known Shaw was out when he made the first punch, but Shaw was obviously down. The second punch was unnecessary & stupid.

The Brent Ashton bloodletting was also sickening as well as Nick Kypreos’s broken face.

 

[junyab]

Regardless...and I don't agree with you description above and what happened, it doesn't mean a freaking concussion is essentially what he deserved for it as ma h have suggested here.

Getting harder and harder to cheer for this team...and it's not only because of what the GM has done/doing.

I didn't say he deserved to get injured. Others might have, but I didn't. All I'm saying is that he often takes unnecessary risks when he hits. He's a good hockey player and is more valuable than a guy paid just to go out hit people. So he needs to be smarter if he wants to keeps playing.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Shaw should sit a full calendar year.

Habs should put him on LTIR & keep him there through next season.

It's tough as a player because it's your career, but it's also your life.

Hard to believe there were teams interested in trading for this guy at the deadline & MB said no.


There's no trading him now.

In the absolute best impression I can do of a defence of Bergevin, his not trading Andrew Shaw is him not wanting to admit failure. He was probably getting offered a 3rd, or a 2nd or something like that. Bergy's ego can't comprehend locking in a sunk cost, so he rolled the dice to great comedic effect.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

The Brent Ashton bloodletting was also sickening as well as Nick Kypreos’s broken face.

I don't remember the Ashton one. Was that a fight? I do remember the Kypreos one though. That was bad. It was also a fight. I'm sure Vanderbusche didn't intend to injure Kyper like that but it wasn't accidental either.

Going way back, I also remember Borje Salming getting stepped on the face in a hockey scrum in front of Leafs net. Definitely accidental, but an ugly incident.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Shaw actually looked really good at the beginning of the year when I think he must've been fully healthy. He had a lot more zip in his step and was showing off some nice agility + hands.

Bergevin had seen a lot of him in Chicago as a prospect then young player breaking into league so would've seen plenty of that potential too. It was a gamble to acquire him but not a terrible one with this kind of upside of grit + scoring touch + good room guy, capable of playing on top lines and only like 24. He has not been able to give up that reckless edge to his game though and his concussion issues seem to be compounding so the longterm outlook isn't looking so great. Very promising career on the road to being cut short and at this point you're just more worried about the young man's long term brain health than anything else.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

In the absolute best impression I can do of a defence of Bergevin, his not trading Andrew Shaw is him not wanting to admit failure. He was probably getting offered a 3rd, or a 2nd or something like that. Bergy's ego can't comprehend locking in a sunk cost, so he rolled the dice to great comedic effect.

I wouldn't call the situation "comedic". Nothing funny about any of it, especially if you're a Montreal fan because we're getting screwed the most.

I agree that MB didn't want to trade him out of some sense of pride. I would've taken a 2nd rder in 2019 and/or 2020. We already have a lot of 2nds for this year.

I think we could've gotten something based on his "playoff experience". Winnipeg & St. Louis were apparently interested. Both need RWs & the playoff reputation....huge missed opportunity.

 

[WickedPegJets]

I don't remember the Ashton one. Was that a fight? I do remember the Kypreos one though. That was bad. It was also a fight. I'm sure Vanderbusche didn't intend to injure Kyper like that but it wasn't accidental either.

Going way back, I also remember Borje Salming getting stepped on the face in a hockey scrum in front of Leafs net. Definitely accidental, but an ugly incident.

Ashton was as meek as a church mouse in his playing days. He was accidentally sliced up.

 

[Redux91]

I personally i dont have anything wrong with what pateryn said, i hope andrews ok but you cant connect heads like that on hits

if i was pateryn id be pretty ticked off, not that andrew threw a hit, but threw a hit as if he didnt know how to hit and put BOTH players brains at risk

no i dont have anything against what pateryn said, i wouldnt want my career to be in jeopardy because another person runs around getting 4 concussions a year

Having said that, Get better Andrew, he is still a serviceable player imo.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Ashton was as meek as a church mouse in his playing days. He was accidentally sliced up.

Ashton mostly played in the west. I don't remember him too well. He did get in one fight though. Detroit vs Toronto. Ashton vs Lefebvre. Hilarious. Both non-fighters.

 

[WickedPegJets]

I wouldn't call the situation "comedic". Nothing funny about any of it, especially if you're a Montreal fan because we're getting screwed the most.

I agree that MB didn't want to trade him out of some sense of pride. I would've taken a 2nd rder in 2019 and/or 2020. We already have a lot of 2nds for this year.

I think we could've gotten something based on his "playoff experience". Winnipeg & St. Louis were apparently interested. Both need RWs & the playoff reputation....huge missed opportunity.

Being that both Bergevin and Kevin Chevy both worked for Stan Bowman and are considered pals, Chevy would have offered Bergey a better trade package than the Blues would have for Shaw.

I will argue that Paul Stastny’s four year stay in St. Louis was very underwhelming compared to his pre-free agency days with the Avs. The Blues got the Jets’ No. 1 draft pick for the rental player Stastny. For Andrew Shaw with remaining term on his contract and being younger and a right handed shot with grit and spunk and can fight, Chevy would have given Bergey a No. 1 pick for Shaw.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Being that both Bergevin and Kevin Chevy both worked for Stan Bowman and are considered pals, Chevy would have offered Bergey a better trade package than the Blues would have for Shaw.

I will argue that Paul Stastny’s four year stay in St. Louis was very underwhelming compared to his pre-free agency days with the Avs. The Blues got the Jets’ No. 1 draft pick for the rental player Stastny. For Andrew Shaw with remaining term on his contract and being younger and a right handed shot with grit and spunk and can fight, Chevy would have given Bergey a No. 1 pick for Shaw.

Shaw can also play center & is a solid face-off man which adds to his value. Not sure about the first, but 2 seconds, like Eller probably could've been had. Jets have the cap space & the cap is going up.

Just thinking about it pisses me off. Shaw would probably be better on a big team like the Jets too.

Benn, Schlemko & Shaw should've been traded along with Plekanec at the TD.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Shaw can also play center & is a solid face-off man which adds to his value. Not sure about the first, but 2 seconds, like Eller probably could've been had. Jets have the cap space & the cap is going up.

Just thinking about it pisses me off. Shaw would probably be better on a big team like the Jets too.

Benn, Schlemko & Shaw should've been traded along with Plekanec at the TD.

Surely since Andrew Shaw can play center, has a better than .500 on the draw and is good defensively, then why hasn’t management played him consistently as a No. 3 centerman at the very least?

 

[Doc McKenna]

You're bias, extremely bias. Shaw hit him in the chest and left shoulder. He never touched his head. You want to continue with this BS go ahead but there's video out there for people to check. If that was a head shot then we might as well shut down the league and have the Ice Capades take over the schedule.

EDIT: I wrote touched....I meant to say targeted.

Shaw is a POS its not a bias, He was regarded as a dirty player until he came to the habs(at least here on HF). Most still know he is dirty. Just like gally plays on edge, but he is ours so he gets a pass. Its also about levels, or degrees. No they aren't Marchand, they aren't Rinaldo or those type that are always headhunting, but often enough to have a reputation.

YOU may have the bias if you see it differently.

 

[HuGo Sham]

i like shaw but he's dumb and reckless and i need ask why bargain-bin refers to this as 'character'? from his homophobic slur, to his hot-headed-ness on the ice and retaliatory play. It's one thing to play bigger than you are, it's another level of stupid when you don't play smart or pick your battles properly. another bad contract

 

[Scriptor]

Shaw is a POS its not a bias, He was regarded as a dirty player until he came to the habs(at least here on HF). Most still know he is dirty. Just like gally plays on edge, but he is ours so he gets a pass. Its also about levels, or degrees. No they aren't Marchand, they aren't Rinaldo or those type that are always headhunting, but often enough to have a reputation.

YOU may have the bias if you see it differently.

I just love the rhetoric on this site. Bias is reserved for those who aren't enlightened by the truth. Good to know. Thanks.