GDT: ANA @ DET 7:30PM EST 02/13/2018

[Pavels Dog]

Lol way to take everything out of context. By me saying I think it's smart that the Sens admit reality and start a firesale somehow equates to me wanting us to waste Dahlin's career by doing what Ottawa does? Whatever buddy.

You sure didn't take a random comment by Ken/Mickey out of context, did you? They talked rebuild just last night, as they've been for years. But a comment on what it takes to reach the playoffs means they're delusional..
Sens "admit reality" how? They're smart how? By potentially doing a firesale less than a year after narrowly missing the SCF? By being in situation they could have avoided with an ownership that was more willing to spend or simply not doing the terrrible terrible Duchene trade? By tearing their team apart while their 2019 1st round pick belongs to someone else (they avoided disaster by top 10 protecting the '18 1st, but they could be screwed in '19)?

Wings will sell. Possibly to a higher degree than Ottawa does. Phaneuf for Gaborik isn't a firesale, it's a lateral move, trading bad deals. Sens are 10 points back from the Wings so it's natural they might throw in the towel a little faster. Doesn't mean they're doing anything right this year.

Hey man, how else are we going to prove a point other than against a straw man argument

Hey man if it's not a straw man to claim Ottawa is rebuilding and we're not because of a comment by Ken and Mickey....

Well, we could always waste Larkin/Mantha/etc's careers by refusing to rebuild, instead playing them with random UFAs and bargain bin reclamation projects until they hit 27 and bail for an organization that's more focused on long-term success.

I don't know if you're serious about comparing Larkin/Mantha to Erik Karlsson but if you are... wow. Mantha and especially Larkin are solid young players but nothing you look at and go "players of this caliber should be contending for for cups each season" like with Karlsson. Larkin+Mantha+UFA bargain bin players is a rebuilding team. Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Brassard, Chabot, Duchene probably shouldn't be.

 

[Redder Winger]

Had to watch the game on the Ducks feed last night (I live in SoCal) and boy is their play by play guy the worst at identifying ppl and names. At one point I was yelling out "Who TF is Adam Larkin???"

Dylan's cousin. He's a senior at Yale.
Adam Larkin

 

[Hammettf2b]

Dylan's cousin. He's a senior at Yale.
Adam Larkin

Maybe hes hinting at something???

 

[TheMule93]

Hey man if it's not a straw man to claim Ottawa is rebuilding and we're not because of a comment by Ken and Mickey....

Redwingzz's comment that you quoted and replied to was something to the extent of ~"at least Ottawa accepts the reality that they need to rebuild, and arent living a delusion like our GM, coach, commentators, etc. They're being honest with the fans."

You said sarcastically ~"I envy them rebuilding with the leagues best defenseman in his prime, wasting his career". Your response was aimed at an argument that nobody made. Straw man argument. You completely missed the point of the person you quoted.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Redwingzz's comment that you quoted and replied to was something to the extent of ~"at least Ottawa accepts the reality that they need to rebuild, and arent living a delusion like our GM, coach, commentators, etc. They're being honest with the fans."

You said sarcastically ~"I envy them rebuilding with the leagues best defenseman in his prime, wasting his career". Your response was aimed at an argument that literally nobody made. Straw man argument. You completely missed the point of the person you quoted.

Nah, he said Ottawa is admitting that they're junk, but Detroit isn't because of a comment made by Ken and Mickey on a broadcast (a broadcast during which they also talked about the Wings being in a rebuild). Not only is it a nonsensical argument that Ottawa is doing something right by (possibly) entering some kind of rebuild right now, it's equally nonsensical to say the Wings aren't admitting that they're bad and rebuilding because of something said by talking heads on FSD.

 

[RedWingzz]

You sure didn't take a random comment by Ken/Mickey out of context, did you? They talked rebuild just last night, as they've been for years. But a comment on what it takes to reach the playoffs means they're delusional..
Sens "admit reality" how? They're smart how? By potentially doing a firesale less than a year after narrowly missing the SCF? By being in situation they could have avoided with an ownership that was more willing to spend or simply not doing the terrrible terrible Duchene trade? By tearing their team apart while their 2019 1st round pick belongs to someone else (they avoided disaster by top 10 protecting the '18 1st, but they could be screwed in '19)?

Wings will sell. Possibly to a higher degree than Ottawa does. Phaneuf for Gaborik isn't a firesale, it's a lateral move, trading bad deals. Sens are 10 points back from the Wings so it's natural they might throw in the towel a little faster. Doesn't mean they're doing anything right this year.


Hey man if it's not a straw man to claim Ottawa is rebuilding and we're not because of a comment by Ken and Mickey....


I don't know if you're serious about comparing Larkin/Mantha to Erik Karlsson but if you are... wow. Mantha and especially Larkin are solid young players but nothing you look at and go "players of this caliber should be contending for for cups each season" like with Karlsson. Larkin+Mantha+UFA bargain bin players is a rebuilding team. Karlsson, Stone, Hoffman, Brassard, Chabot, Duchene probably shouldn't be.

First of all it was Ozzy and Mick, not Ken and Mick, so you're already showing your hand that you didn't even watch the game/see them talking abut it. Secondly, a random comment? They went on for a good 7 minutes on how the Wings are gearing for a playoff push, and need to go on a big run here. You should probably educate yourself a bit more with the content you are arguing.

 

[Pavels Dog]

First of all it was Ozzy and Mick, not Ken and Mick, so you're already showing your hand that you didn't even watch the game/see them talking abut it. Secondly, a random comment? They went on for a good 7 minutes on how the Wings are gearing for a playoff push, and need to go on a big run here. You should probably educate yourself a bit more with the content you are arguing.

And the difference between Ken and Ozzy is what? I don't bother listening much to the filler content of the FSD broadcasts. They need to fill out the time allotted, they can't talk rebuilding for 82 games like this board does because like me, 90% of viewers would suffer an aneurysm before half the season was over.

I don't even care if Ken Holland himself was saying the team needs to win all their remaining games and talking playoffs. He's still gonna sell. We're still rebuilding. Tell me what does it matter if FSD wants people to actually watch the remaining games by trying to sell some suckers on the idea that maybe there's a chance?

 

[Redder Winger]

Maybe hes hinting at something???

I wouldn't be surprised if Dylan's cousins and brother find a place in Toledo/Grand Rapids at some point.
His cousin was thought of fairly highly until he blew out his knee in his draft year.

 

[Lampedampe]

It just hit me that if we weren't f***ed over by the refs against islanders and Florida we'd be in serious play-off contention at this point. The take away is that the east is quite horrible this year and the refs sure did us a massive favour, perhaps they were red wing fans?

 

[Redder Winger]

It just hit me that if we weren't ****ed over by the refs against islanders and Florida we'd be in serious play-off contention at this point. The take away is that the east is quite horrible this year and the refs sure did us a massive favour, perhaps they were red wing fans?

Last night the Ducks got two goals taken away from them by bad or iffy officiating.

It goes both ways.

 

[TheMule93]

Last night the Ducks got two goals taken away from them by bad or iffy officiating.

It goes both ways.

No, they did not. The calls were fine on both goals.

 

[Redder Winger]

No, they did not. The calls were fine on both goals.

I disagree.
Whatever. The Ducks disagreed too.

“We played well early,” Ducks center Ryan Getzlaf said. “But we had those two goals called back that we thought could have counted, especially the first one, and we missed an empty net. That took something out of us.”

The point is, you seriously can't pretend that all the big calls go against Detroit. It's silly.

 

[TheMule93]

I disagree.
Whatever. The Ducks disagreed too.

“We played well early,” Ducks center Ryan Getzlaf said. “But we had those two goals called back that we thought could have counted, especially the first one, and we missed an empty net. That took something out of us.”

The point is, you seriously can't pretend that all the big calls go against Detroit. It's silly.

Ducks players disagreed with a call that didn't go their way. Ah, well I guess it's settled then.

 

[Redder Winger]

Ducks players disagreed with a call that didn't go their way. Ah, well I guess it's settled then.

Like the Red Wings fan who thinks his team got jobbed.

 

[Red Stanley]

"We need to go 8-1-1 in the next 10" is like saying "a unicorn needs to strut along and fart on our team so they can gain magic powers". Either is just as likely to occur. I prefer they'd gone with the latter, though.

 

[kliq]

I find it funny that some people think that what Ottawa did was “re-building”. Their cap hit actually goes up, all this move does is make them worse, and save them cash. This move was about money.

Now if gaborik retires (ala Datsyuk) and they trade the contract, possibly a different story.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I find it funny that some people think that what Ottawa did was “re-building”. Their cap hit actually goes up, all this move does is make them worse, and save them cash. This move was about money.

Now if gaborik retires (ala Datsyuk) and they trade the contract, possibly a different story.

Not exactly... Gaboriks deal isn't 35+, so if he retires it all comes off the books.

The more likely scenario is that he gets bought out, which saves Ottawa real money AND cap.

Ottawa operates on an actual money budget lower than the cap, so cap space is moot to them. It's saving real money that counts to them.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I would not be real thrilled with a lot of the decisions in this game that went against them if I was a Ducks fan.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I find it funny that some people think that what Ottawa did was “re-building”. Their cap hit actually goes up, all this move does is make them worse, and save them cash. This move was about money.

Now if gaborik retires (ala Datsyuk) and they trade the contract, possibly a different story.

Everyone knows a true rebuild starts with trading away your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks and acquiring a 36 year old. Ottawa doin’ it right!

 

[kliq]

Not exactly... Gaboriks deal isn't 35+, so if he retires it all comes off the books.

The more likely scenario is that he gets bought out, which saves Ottawa real money AND cap.

Ottawa operates on an actual money budget lower than the cap, so cap space is moot to them. It's saving real money that counts to them.

Didnt know that about Gaborik, thanks for pointing that out. Either way this move seems to be more about money the "the re-build".

 

[Oddbob]

Didnt know that about Gaborik, thanks for pointing that out. Either way this move seems to be more about money the "the re-build".

Ottawa is never going to do anything with Melnyk as owner. He likes being able to say he owns a hockey team, but doesn't want to spend to keep good players in town. Karlsson will leave, Duchene will leave, they will get replacements maybe some youth gets good, then they will leave and rinse and repeat for Ottawa. Unless Melnyk starts spending to the cap or at least close Ottawa will be a bottom feeder most years.

 

[Winger98]

Not exactly... Gaboriks deal isn't 35+, so if he retires it all comes off the books.

The more likely scenario is that he gets bought out, which saves Ottawa real money AND cap.

Ottawa operates on an actual money budget lower than the cap, so cap space is moot to them. It's saving real money that counts to them.

It can't be much lower. I'm looking at capfriendly and their actual salary spent this year is still $71m, though I think that includes MacArthur. I'm not sure I really punish their owner for not spending over the cap, though, just because they can. I mean, that's a fair part of the reason we have a number of contracts we don't really want.

I'm really curious if anyone has a number handy for the average production of guys from 28-36. Or, even better, a rate for fluctuation for those years because mediocre players are less likely to still be playing as they age. I know part of it is just that the failures stand out more, but it sure seems like when guys hit their late 20s and early 30s that they either keep producing or they just fall apart for whatever reasons (injuries, age, etc.).