bmoc
Registered User
- Sep 2, 2010
- 141
- 17
Yeah its awful..That's pretty bad for Colorado.
As a Ducks fan I agree Vatanen isn't ideal for them and Bieksa Makes no sense what so ever. For a deal to work here though we would need significant retention or a significant contract going the other way. That being said I do think Vatanen is overlooked because he is smaller and a RHS. But he is one of the best D likely available throughout the league. He is about to enter his prime and plays significant minutes in all situations. He has even played LSD for the Ducks and likely will this year as well if he stays with the Ducks. Sadly I dont see Vatanen in Anaheims Long term plans. which is too bad because I really like him as a player and personality.Yeah its awful..
We really don't want Vatanen.
We would prefer Larsson over him easily as a centerpiece..
And is the salary dump Bieksa or do we have to take another bad contract as well?
Larsson + 1st round pick + one of your top forward prospects or Mahura+ capdump (Bieksa) would work for me and that is probably what it would take.
Given how much Murray loves his prospects, I have a hard time seeing him doing this deal but I doubt that there is anyother reasonable way that Duchene ends up with the Ducks.
It sucks that the guy we really don't have a use for in Vatanen is the odd man out on your blueline. And that you lost Theodore in the expansion draft.
Otherwise there might have been something there between the two teams...
As a Ducks fan I agree Vatanen isn't ideal for them and Bieksa Makes no sense what so ever. For a deal to work here though we would need significant retention or a significant contract going the other way. That being said I do think Vatanen is overlooked because he is smaller and a RHS. But he is one of the best D likely available throughout the league. He is about to enter his prime and plays significant minutes in all situations. He has even played LSD for the Ducks and likely will this year as well if he stays with the Ducks. Sadly I dont see Vatanen in Anaheims Long term plans. which is too bad because I really like him as a player and personality.
I don't really disagree with you. While I would love Duchene I doubt a deal would get done. Money doesn't work for us without Vats and its not like we'd give Vats and Larsson for Duchene. We could certainly put a package together of futures but then the money doesn't really work. I just feel that Vatanen gets unfairly bashed on these boards because he is perceived as a Offensive D who isn't good defensively which isn't really true at all.I understand and agree with some of it.
But he still does not make much sense for us.
We already have Barrie and Makar in our system that probably are more talented offensively than Vatanen is. We also have EJ and potentially Meloche who are (or atleast hopefully project to be) an upgrade on him defensively on the right side.
Vatanen might be able to play on the left side but we are not going to gamble Duchene away on him being a longterm success playing tough minutes on the left side.
He also is a bit too old to fit into our youth movement..
Of course you want to trade him for Duchene because he is the odd man out but he just does not make any sense for the Avs...
Again.
The Ducks could easily make it work if you wanted to with all of your futures and quality Ds in your system.
You just won't be able to do it by using Vatanen and I don't think Murray is willing to pay the price otherwise.
Even with trading Vatanen the money doesn't work. Starting next year they have >30M tied up into 4 players (Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler and Fowler)- at that point spending 6M on a 3C that won't have the $ to re-sign anyway becomes a luxury they can't afford
I don't think you'll find many Ducks fans who wouldn't welcome Duchene. Especially if it meant keeping our current D core intact. The reality is wouldn't be able to afford our future without moving some salary out. We could probably do it this year if we got retention but in end we would still have to move Vats to afford the raises that go into effect next season.I guess the question from Anaheim's perspective is how much they want to go for it over the next little bit. Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but I've always had the impression that Kesler's offensive numbers have dried up a bit into the playoffs, particularly as the rounds progress. His style takes a toll on him, he isn't very offensively creative, and he's always focused on shutting the opposition down. Just in my opinion, but Anaheim in the playoffs has struggled for a bit with a lack of offensive creativity outside of Getzlaf. Kesler plays a north / south game, so does Silfverberg, Perry is more of a supporting cast player...Rakell and Getzlaf are the only two offensively dynamic players they have up front, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it's sort of my impression. I actually think Anaheim's in something of a similiar situation to the Canucks several years ago, where after the Sedins they had some quality players - including Kesler - but just not enough offensive jump to take it to the next level. Duchene checks all the boxes for them really - offensively creative, can run his own line, can switch to wing, and in the playoffs if need be could let Kesler focus on his defensive matchups while providing that secondary scoring behind Getzlaf. Maybe Anaheim can't fit Duchene in cap-wise - and I don't think they'll move the pieces it'll take to get him anyways - but I think if Anaheim wants to win a cup with Getzlaf still near his best then they'll have to make an addition up front at some point.
Vatanen isn't a fit
Larsson + Jones + Bieksa +1st/2nd for Duchene 1 million retained
Does the money work?
Really bad for Colorado. This isn't even close to what NYI offered and that got rejected...
It would take probably Larsson + Jones + 1st to convince Sakic.
I wouldn't do it for many reasons and mostly because we need cheap/young forwards... we can't afford Duchene with Perry/Getz/Kes on the books.
Vatanen isn't a fit
Larsson + Jones + Bieksa +1st/2nd for Duchene 1 million retained
Does the money work?
Not to put words in his mouth but you're ignoring the part with Bieksa being dumped on them which would cost us. Also consider the Bobby Ryan trade. Silf, Noesen(who the Ducks were high on, if Ott doesnt take him we dont move down for Rakell and Gibson, talk about a dodged bullet) and a first rou der expecred to be mid draft. Silf had outperformed his second round draft position to that point. Larsson, Jones and a First is a lot and those 2 guys have out performed their draft spots which makes us value them higher but the basic comparable is there. Personally id9 prefer to move Ritchie to Jones. We would need to make room on the current roster anyway and it would be one less extension we would have to sign which would make keeping Duchene easier. But we would still end up moving Vats over the summer for futures if we did this to make room for Manson Fowler and montour deals.2 of their 3 top prospects and a 1st for Duchene is insane.
Please find a comparable trade, because the first one that comes to mind is Kesler. Kesler had a NTC, but the difference between the returns shouldnt be this...
Kesler got a 3rd line center + a 24 year old bottom pairing defensemen with potential + 24th overall pick
How does that translate to the equivalent of 3 1st rounders in Larsson, jones, and a 1st...
I don't think the Ducks actually have a dump anymore aside from maybe Holzer. Which doesnt really tip the scales. There is Bieksa but if they werent willing to ask hom yo waive gor expansion they're not going to now. The Ducks likely ask for retention.Larsson is the obvious piece in a deal with colorado...
I think someone like troy terry/comtois/ritchie would be a good option for 2nd piece.
Then you prob look at a cap dump and a pick to even out... but that part depends on the dump.
Larsson, terry/ritchie/comtois, + 2nd(pending dump), + dump
For duechene, if aves are heart set on a 1st im guessing another pick/prospect comes back anaheims way.
Dump or whatever needs to be done to make the move happenI don't think the Ducks actually have a dump anymore aside from maybe Holzer. Which doesnt really tip the scales. There is Bieksa but if they werent willing to ask hom yo waive gor expansion they're not going to now. The Ducks likely ask for retention.
2 of their 3 top prospects and a 1st for Duchene is insane.
Please find a comparable trade, because the first one that comes to mind is Kesler. Kesler had a NTC, but the difference between the returns shouldnt be this...
Kesler got a 3rd line center + a 24 year old bottom pairing defensemen with potential + 24th overall pick
How does that translate to the equivalent of 3 1st rounders in Larsson, jones, and a 1st...
I'm all for this myself. With the exception that I don't want Steel involved and if Vats isn't the main piece he isnt involved either.Dump or whatever needs to be done to make the move happen