Proposal: Ana - Col

JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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That's pretty bad for Colorado.
Yeah its awful..

We really don't want Vatanen.

We would prefer Larsson over him easily as a centerpiece..

And is the salary dump Bieksa or do we have to take another bad contract as well?

Larsson + 1st round pick + one of your top forward prospects or Mahura+ capdump (Bieksa) would work for me and that is probably what it would take.

Given how much Murray loves his prospects, I have a hard time seeing him doing this deal but I doubt that there is anyother reasonable way that Duchene ends up with the Ducks.

It sucks that the guy we really don't have a use for in Vatanen is the odd man out on your blueline. And that you lost Theodore in the expansion draft.
Otherwise there might have been something there between the two teams...
 

DavidBL

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Yeah its awful..

We really don't want Vatanen.

We would prefer Larsson over him easily as a centerpiece..

And is the salary dump Bieksa or do we have to take another bad contract as well?

Larsson + 1st round pick + one of your top forward prospects or Mahura+ capdump (Bieksa) would work for me and that is probably what it would take.

Given how much Murray loves his prospects, I have a hard time seeing him doing this deal but I doubt that there is anyother reasonable way that Duchene ends up with the Ducks.

It sucks that the guy we really don't have a use for in Vatanen is the odd man out on your blueline. And that you lost Theodore in the expansion draft.
Otherwise there might have been something there between the two teams...
As a Ducks fan I agree Vatanen isn't ideal for them and Bieksa Makes no sense what so ever. For a deal to work here though we would need significant retention or a significant contract going the other way. That being said I do think Vatanen is overlooked because he is smaller and a RHS. But he is one of the best D likely available throughout the league. He is about to enter his prime and plays significant minutes in all situations. He has even played LSD for the Ducks and likely will this year as well if he stays with the Ducks. Sadly I dont see Vatanen in Anaheims Long term plans. which is too bad because I really like him as a player and personality.
 

JoemAvs

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Jul 2, 2011
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As a Ducks fan I agree Vatanen isn't ideal for them and Bieksa Makes no sense what so ever. For a deal to work here though we would need significant retention or a significant contract going the other way. That being said I do think Vatanen is overlooked because he is smaller and a RHS. But he is one of the best D likely available throughout the league. He is about to enter his prime and plays significant minutes in all situations. He has even played LSD for the Ducks and likely will this year as well if he stays with the Ducks. Sadly I dont see Vatanen in Anaheims Long term plans. which is too bad because I really like him as a player and personality.

I understand and agree with some of it.
But he still does not make much sense for us.

We already have Barrie and Makar in our system that probably are more talented offensively than Vatanen is. We also have EJ and potentially Meloche who are (or atleast hopefully project to be) an upgrade on him defensively on the right side.
Vatanen might be able to play on the left side but we are not going to gamble Duchene away on him being a longterm success playing tough minutes on the left side.
He also is a bit too old to fit into our youth movement..

Of course you want to trade him for Duchene because he is the odd man out but he just does not make any sense for the Avs...

Again.

The Ducks could easily make it work if you wanted to with all of your futures and quality Ds in your system.
You just won't be able to do it by using Vatanen and I don't think Murray is willing to pay the price otherwise.
 

DavidBL

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I understand and agree with some of it.
But he still does not make much sense for us.

We already have Barrie and Makar in our system that probably are more talented offensively than Vatanen is. We also have EJ and potentially Meloche who are (or atleast hopefully project to be) an upgrade on him defensively on the right side.
Vatanen might be able to play on the left side but we are not going to gamble Duchene away on him being a longterm success playing tough minutes on the left side.
He also is a bit too old to fit into our youth movement..

Of course you want to trade him for Duchene because he is the odd man out but he just does not make any sense for the Avs...

Again.

The Ducks could easily make it work if you wanted to with all of your futures and quality Ds in your system.
You just won't be able to do it by using Vatanen and I don't think Murray is willing to pay the price otherwise.
I don't really disagree with you. While I would love Duchene I doubt a deal would get done. Money doesn't work for us without Vats and its not like we'd give Vats and Larsson for Duchene. We could certainly put a package together of futures but then the money doesn't really work. I just feel that Vatanen gets unfairly bashed on these boards because he is perceived as a Offensive D who isn't good defensively which isn't really true at all.
 

Spazkat

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Feb 19, 2015
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Even with trading Vatanen the money doesn't work. Starting next year they have >30M tied up into 4 players (Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler and Fowler)- at that point spending 6M on a 3C that won't have the $ to re-sign anyway becomes a luxury they can't afford
 
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Avs44

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Even with trading Vatanen the money doesn't work. Starting next year they have >30M tied up into 4 players (Getzlaf, Perry, Kesler and Fowler)- at that point spending 6M on a 3C that won't have the $ to re-sign anyway becomes a luxury they can't afford

I guess the question from Anaheim's perspective is how much they want to go for it over the next little bit. Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but I've always had the impression that Kesler's offensive numbers have dried up a bit into the playoffs, particularly as the rounds progress. His style takes a toll on him, he isn't very offensively creative, and he's always focused on shutting the opposition down. Just in my opinion, but Anaheim in the playoffs has struggled for a bit with a lack of offensive creativity outside of Getzlaf. Kesler plays a north / south game, so does Silfverberg, Perry is more of a supporting cast player...Rakell and Getzlaf are the only two offensively dynamic players they have up front, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it's sort of my impression. I actually think Anaheim's in something of a similiar situation to the Canucks several years ago, where after the Sedins they had some quality players - including Kesler - but just not enough offensive jump to take it to the next level. Duchene checks all the boxes for them really - offensively creative, can run his own line, can switch to wing, and in the playoffs if need be could let Kesler focus on his defensive matchups while providing that secondary scoring behind Getzlaf. Maybe Anaheim can't fit Duchene in cap-wise - and I don't think they'll move the pieces it'll take to get him anyways - but I think if Anaheim wants to win a cup with Getzlaf still near his best then they'll have to make an addition up front at some point.
 

DavidBL

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I guess the question from Anaheim's perspective is how much they want to go for it over the next little bit. Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but I've always had the impression that Kesler's offensive numbers have dried up a bit into the playoffs, particularly as the rounds progress. His style takes a toll on him, he isn't very offensively creative, and he's always focused on shutting the opposition down. Just in my opinion, but Anaheim in the playoffs has struggled for a bit with a lack of offensive creativity outside of Getzlaf. Kesler plays a north / south game, so does Silfverberg, Perry is more of a supporting cast player...Rakell and Getzlaf are the only two offensively dynamic players they have up front, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it's sort of my impression. I actually think Anaheim's in something of a similiar situation to the Canucks several years ago, where after the Sedins they had some quality players - including Kesler - but just not enough offensive jump to take it to the next level. Duchene checks all the boxes for them really - offensively creative, can run his own line, can switch to wing, and in the playoffs if need be could let Kesler focus on his defensive matchups while providing that secondary scoring behind Getzlaf. Maybe Anaheim can't fit Duchene in cap-wise - and I don't think they'll move the pieces it'll take to get him anyways - but I think if Anaheim wants to win a cup with Getzlaf still near his best then they'll have to make an addition up front at some point.
I don't think you'll find many Ducks fans who wouldn't welcome Duchene. Especially if it meant keeping our current D core intact. The reality is wouldn't be able to afford our future without moving some salary out. We could probably do it this year if we got retention but in end we would still have to move Vats to afford the raises that go into effect next season.
 

TopShelfWaterBottle

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I for one don’t see bob Murray making any kind of significant move to put the ducks over he top. He always goes for lesser players who are having career years and imo pisses away prime opportunities to put the ducks over the top
 
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Mallard

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Really bad for Colorado. This isn't even close to what NYI offered and that got rejected...

It would take probably Larsson + Jones + 1st to convince Sakic.

I wouldn't do it for many reasons and mostly because we need cheap/young forwards... we can't afford Duchene with Perry/Getz/Kes on the books.
 

Spazkat

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Feb 19, 2015
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Vatanen isn't a fit

Larsson + Jones + Bieksa +1st/2nd for Duchene 1 million retained

Does the money work?


No way the Ducks would give up 2 of their best prospects plus a first for 2 years of Duchene. Yes, he would be a great addition to the team. They desperately need scoring forwards- just not at the expense of stripping the depth or prospect pool. One of the baby D for a similar forward would be ideal.

Money still doesn't work... Bieksa is 4M but only for this year so we'd be adding 1M this year, and 5M next year when we can afford it even less. You're also overlooking the fact that management has been very clear that the priority is long term viability over short term success. They almost never trade a first, they don't get splashy with TDL activities. I cant imagine any scenario where BM thinks it's a good plan to strip the prospect cupboard bare and give up a first in a very good draft for 2 years of a 3C they cant afford to re-sign.
 
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Gliff

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Really bad for Colorado. This isn't even close to what NYI offered and that got rejected...

It would take probably Larsson + Jones + 1st to convince Sakic.

I wouldn't do it for many reasons and mostly because we need cheap/young forwards... we can't afford Duchene with Perry/Getz/Kes on the books.

Vatanen isn't a fit

Larsson + Jones + Bieksa +1st/2nd for Duchene 1 million retained

Does the money work?

2 of their 3 top prospects and a 1st for Duchene is insane.

Please find a comparable trade, because the first one that comes to mind is Kesler. Kesler had a NTC, but the difference between the returns shouldnt be this...

Kesler got a 3rd line center + a 24 year old bottom pairing defensemen with potential + 24th overall pick

How does that translate to the equivalent of 3 1st rounders in Larsson, jones, and a 1st...
 

DavidBL

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2 of their 3 top prospects and a 1st for Duchene is insane.

Please find a comparable trade, because the first one that comes to mind is Kesler. Kesler had a NTC, but the difference between the returns shouldnt be this...

Kesler got a 3rd line center + a 24 year old bottom pairing defensemen with potential + 24th overall pick

How does that translate to the equivalent of 3 1st rounders in Larsson, jones, and a 1st...
Not to put words in his mouth but you're ignoring the part with Bieksa being dumped on them which would cost us. Also consider the Bobby Ryan trade. Silf, Noesen(who the Ducks were high on, if Ott doesnt take him we dont move down for Rakell and Gibson, talk about a dodged bullet) and a first rou der expecred to be mid draft. Silf had outperformed his second round draft position to that point. Larsson, Jones and a First is a lot and those 2 guys have out performed their draft spots which makes us value them higher but the basic comparable is there. Personally id9 prefer to move Ritchie to Jones. We would need to make room on the current roster anyway and it would be one less extension we would have to sign which would make keeping Duchene easier. But we would still end up moving Vats over the summer for futures if we did this to make room for Manson Fowler and montour deals.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Larsson is the obvious piece in a deal with colorado...

I think someone like troy terry/comtois/ritchie would be a good option for 2nd piece.

Then you prob look at a cap dump and a pick to even out... but that part depends on the dump.

Larsson, terry/ritchie/comtois, + 2nd(pending dump), + dump

For duechene, if aves are heart set on a 1st im guessing another pick/prospect comes back anaheims way.
 

DavidBL

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Larsson is the obvious piece in a deal with colorado...

I think someone like troy terry/comtois/ritchie would be a good option for 2nd piece.

Then you prob look at a cap dump and a pick to even out... but that part depends on the dump.

Larsson, terry/ritchie/comtois, + 2nd(pending dump), + dump

For duechene, if aves are heart set on a 1st im guessing another pick/prospect comes back anaheims way.
I don't think the Ducks actually have a dump anymore aside from maybe Holzer. Which doesnt really tip the scales. There is Bieksa but if they werent willing to ask hom yo waive gor expansion they're not going to now. The Ducks likely ask for retention.
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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I don't think the Ducks actually have a dump anymore aside from maybe Holzer. Which doesnt really tip the scales. There is Bieksa but if they werent willing to ask hom yo waive gor expansion they're not going to now. The Ducks likely ask for retention.
Dump or whatever needs to be done to make the move happen
 

Avs44

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May 16, 2011
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2 of their 3 top prospects and a 1st for Duchene is insane.

Please find a comparable trade, because the first one that comes to mind is Kesler. Kesler had a NTC, but the difference between the returns shouldnt be this...

Kesler got a 3rd line center + a 24 year old bottom pairing defensemen with potential + 24th overall pick

How does that translate to the equivalent of 3 1st rounders in Larsson, jones, and a 1st...

Kesler had a NTC, requested a trade, and then put two teams on the list of clubs he'd waive said NTC for - Anaheim and Chicago. Chicago didn't even have the cap space for the guy, which meant the Canucks had the option of negotiating with Anaheim, or keeping a discontent player around. The optics of that aren't remotely comparable to the Avs and Duchene. Out of 30 other teams, the Avs can narrow down the list of suitors most interested in Duchene and trade him to any of them...Vancouver had two options, and neither of them were probably the two suitors most interested in Kesler (had they actually had the option of dealing with 29 clubs). Going to have to have a better comparable than that.



You probably don't want to hear the Bobby Ryan comparable, because that return was almost identical to what you just scoffed at.
 

cgf

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I'm not sure I see what the huge issue is for the Ducks money wise if they need to move vats to make it work. Just trade him somewhere else for futures to backfill the pipeline to ease the hit of the package it would take to get Duchene, when the time comes to pay duchene with no retention.
 

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