American-born Team Captains - Who was the best?

[Shane]

If you can't play, I don't care how much you have "leadership qualities". Generally I think leadership qualities are totally overrated here HFBoards.

He can't play now, but he could before the lockout. Just because he can't play now, all his past accomplishments are void and null? Is Gretzky no longer the best player ever because he can't play anymore?

Yeah Hatcher is guilty of sticking around when he's clearly no longer an NHL-calibre player, but can you blame him when he's still making $3.5 million a year?

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

If you can't play, I don't care how much you have "leadership qualities". Generally I think leadership qualities are totally overrated here HFBoards.

You have a pretty selective memory if you think Hatcher couldn't play in the NHL.

Many around the NHL think the 27-year-old Hatcher--a 6-5, 225-pound monster with a mean streak--is the best defensive defenseman in the league. And with a new confidence from that Stanley Cup run, he's playing better than St. Louis' Chris Pronger and is considered a front-runner for the Norris Trophy along with Los Angeles' Rob Blake.

link

Derian Hatcher is a finalist for the Norris Trophy as best defenseman, along with Nicklas Lidstrom of the Red Wings and Al MacInnis of the Blues. Lidstrom has won the award the last two years while MacInnis took the Norris in 1999.

link2

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

He wasn't a liability, thanks to clutch and grab era.

You mean he's able to play effectively between 1926 and 2004? Hardly a bad thing. (Ching Johnson is credited with inventing clutch and grab defence and he entered the league in 1926.) And in his prime, he'd still be very useful today. He could play regardless of rules. Now, he's stuck around too long...

 

[statistics]

You have a pretty selective memory if you think Hatcher couldn't play in the NHL

Yes, he could play in the NHL. He was a good wrestler and knew how to clear the puck using plexiglass. So he is a big, which isn't a skill and wrestling doesn't belong to hockey.

 

[reckoning]

No, it had to do with being a good defensive defenceman. Sometimes players start to go on the decline when they hit their mid-30s, it doesn't change what they accomplished earlier. Anybody who saw Hatcher in the 2004 playoffs could see that he was a lot slower and not as effective, and that was still the "clutch and grab" era.

 

[Shane]

Yes, he could play in the NHL. He was a good wrestler and knew how to clear the puck using plexiglass. So he was a big, which isn't a skill and wrestling doesn't belong to hockey.

You just nullified any reasoned argument you may have made before with that ridiculous statement. Congratulations, no one will take you seriously anymore.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Yes, he could play in the NHL. He was a good wrestler and knew how to clear the puck using plexiglass. So he was a big, which isn't a skill and wrestling doesn't belong to hockey.

If playing defense in the NHL only entailed clearing the puck and wrestling don't you think any bum off the street could do it?

 

[statistics]

You just nullified any reasoned argument you may have made before with that ridiculous statement. Congratulations, no one will take you seriously anymore.

OK, you all love Hatcher. Three most important hockey skills are:

Skating
Stickhandling
Shooting

Hatcher was a decent shooter, but he sucked skating and stickhandling. I don't care if he was a good defensive defenseman and could easily play in the NHL, but calling Hatcher a good hockey player is a crime againts humanity.

BTW, I couldn't care less what others think about me.

 

[JonathanWashington]

pat lafontaine

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

OK, you all love Hatcher. Three most important hockey skills are:

Skating
Stickhandling
Shooting

Hatcher was a decent shooter, but he sucked skating and stickhandling. I don't care if he was a good defensive defenseman and could easily play in the NHL, but calling Hatcher a good hockey player is a crime againts humanity.

BTW, I couldn't care less what others think about me.

Actually, I never liked him. But there are no three most important skills. The only thing that matters is doing what it takles to win. Hatcher had a great read on the game, was strong positionally, a punishing hitter, nearly unbeatable in the corners and was great an ensuring his goalie had a clear line of sight. All very important skills for a defensive defenceman. Your important skill set completely negates all defensive play. And defence wins championships.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Hatcher was considered a top defensive defenceman long before the clutching and grabbing really became prevalent in 1993-94. He was a highly sought after (and untouchable) defenceman from about 1991 on.

He was never the same defenceman after suffering a torn ACL in October of 2003. During the 2002-03 season, he was a second team all-star and a Norris finalist. It was the peak for a defenceman who, along with Scotty Stevens and Adam Foote, was considered the best combination of physical play and overall defensive play among the NHL's defencemen. He signed the lucrative contract with Detroit, but suffered a torn ACL very early in the year versus Vancouver. He looked lost in the 2004 playoffs against Nashville and Calgary - two of the quickest teams in the league at that time.

At his peak, he was dominant. He was a blueprint for rock-solid defensive defencemen. And he was a great leader. You can't overrate leadership. Ask Pat Quinn about the importance in leadership with Team Canada at the Olympics. The 2002 team had it in spades. It's a big reason they won - Yzerman, Lemieux, Sakic, MacInnis, Nieuwendyk, Peca, Shanahan. We should have seen the red flags go up on the 2006 team the moment Gagne was named an alternate.

 

[Kimi]

OK, you all love Hatcher. Three most important hockey skills are:

Skating
Stickhandling
Shooting

Hatcher was a decent shooter, but he sucked skating and stickhandling. I don't care if he was a good defensive defenseman and could easily play in the NHL, but calling Hatcher a good hockey player is a crime againts humanity.

BTW, I couldn't care less what others think about me.

Keepers don't need to skate well, and never shoot. So they're not hockey players?

 

[God Bless Canada]

OK, you all love Hatcher. Three most important hockey skills are:

Skating
Stickhandling
Shooting

Hatcher was a decent shooter, but he sucked skating and stickhandling. I don't care if he was a good defensive defenseman and could easily play in the NHL, but calling Hatcher a good hockey player is a crime againts humanity.

BTW, I couldn't care less what others think about me.

Hatcher in his prime did everything I would want from a defenceman. He controlled the play in his own zone, he was a physical force, he cleared the front of his net and he advanced the puck effectively. Thanks to his point shot, he was an effective second PP unit defenceman, and because he was so big and strong, he could be place in front of the opposing net on the power play. Wasn't as effective as Tim Kerr when it came to screening and scoring, but he Otto-esque in terms of his ability to screen the opposing netminder.

His older brother, Kevin, had offensive ability that Derian never had. But Derian was the much better defenceman.

 

[statistics]

Your important skill set completely negates all defensive play. And defence wins championships.

No. You just forget one thing. You can be a punishing hitter, nearly unbeatable in the corners and a great an ensuring your goalie has a clear line of sight. You can be all this and still be a good skater and a stickhandler, right?

I'm happy, that in the new NHL, skating and stichandling are very valuable skills, because, skating and stickhandling are fundamental hockey skills.

 

[statistics]

You can't overrate leadership. Ask Pat Quinn about the importance in leadership with Team Canada at the Olympics. The 2002 team had it in spades. It's a big reason they won - Yzerman, Lemieux, Sakic, MacInnis, Nieuwendyk, Peca, Shanahan. We should have seen the red flags go up on the 2006 team the moment Gagne was named an alternate.

Yes you can overrate leaderships. In europe we rarely pay much attention to leadership. Europeans did nicely last olympics and world championships and in Nagano etc.

I'm not saying, that leadership is useless, I'm saying, that there is many things in hockey that are much more important.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

No. You just forget one thing. You can be a punishing hitter, nearly unbeatable in the corners and a great an ensuring your goalie has a clear line of sight. You can be all this and still be a good skater and a stickhandler, right?

I'm happy, that in new the NHL, skating and stichandling are very valuable skills, because, skating and stickhandling are fundamental hockey skills.

Of course you can, but if you had a team of fast, stickhandling shooters and no one who had good defensive skills, you'd get crushed constantly. Smart defensive positioning is a fundamental skill, and a very important one. Good teams have a balance of skill sets, and a Hatcher type defenceman complimented skilled teammates like Mike Modano. Now more than ever, a strong understanding of defensive fundamentals is critical. Hatcher no longer has the mobility to use that understanding, but players that do are invaluable. Carolina doesn't win the cup without the smart defence of guys like Wesley, Ward and Commadore.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Yes you can overrate leaderships. In europe we rarely pay much attention to leadership. Europeans did nicely last olympics and world championships and in Nagano etc.

I'm not saying, that leadership is useless, I'm saying, that there is many things in hockey that are much more important.

Except that Forsberg, Lidstrom, Sundin and others on that Gold winning team are very strong leaders. You may not focus on it, but it doesn't negate the presence of leadership.

 

[Roger's Pancreas*]

Yes you can overrate leaderships. In europe we rarely pay much attention to leadership. Europeans did nicely last olympics and world championships and in Nagano etc.

I'm not saying, that leadership is useless, I'm saying, that there is many things in hockey that are much more important.

That's all well and good, but in a thread about who is the best American born captain it's important to look at that small detail.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

I don't think Chelios is the best, he was the captain of the Nagano Olympic Team and they were an absolute train wreck and I'm not even talking about on the ice (they were awful there too).

Leetch gets criticized for his short run as Ranger captain, but he did captain the 96 World Cup Winners.

 

[kurt]

If you had to pick an American-born player who served as captain for an NHL team, who would you pick?

He was born in Taiwan, but he is American.

Why are people picking Langway, even after this post?

Can I pick Gretzky? He was born in Canada, but he is American (dual citizenship).

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Why are people picking Langway, even after this post?

Can I pick Gretzky? He was born in Canada, but he is American (dual citizenship).

Langway was born an American citizen though. Military family.

 

[statistics]

Except that Forsberg, Lidstrom, Sundin and others on that Gold winning team are very strong leaders. You may not focus on it, but it doesn't negate the presence of leadership.

Why czechs do so well in international competions? They are semisoft, sometimes even lazy. If I remember correctly Robert Reichel was their captain many times. He was generally considered soft player who didn't care enough about winning when he was in the NHL.

There is many ways to play hockey. North-Americans believe in heart, leaderships, team play, physical play etc. Czech, russians and slovaks believe more in individual skill, speed etc.

You can get same results many different ways.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Why czechs do so well in international competions? They are semisoft, sometimes even lazy. If I remember correctly Robert Reichel was their captain many times. He was generally considered soft player who didn't care enough about winning when he was in the NHL.

There is many ways to play hockey. North-Americans believe in heart, leaderships, team play, physical play etc. Czech, russians and slovaks believe more in individual skill, speed etc.

You can get same results many different ways.

The Czechs have always been the most volataile team on international hockey. When they're able to bring it together and play like a team, they're a gold medal threat. But they're just as likely to go in the tank. With the Czechs, it's always a mystery which team will show up, not only from a tournament-to-tournament basis, but a game-to-game basis.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Why czechs do so well in international competions? They are semisoft, sometimes even lazy. If I remember correctly Robert Reichel was their captain many times. He was generally considered soft player who didn't care enough about winning when he was in the NHL.

There is many ways to play hockey. North-Americans believe in heart, leaderships, team play, physical play etc. Czech, russians and slovaks believe more in individual skill, speed etc.

You can get same results many different ways.

My sense of Czech culture is that national pride is very strong there and that hockey is an important part of that. (Which would make sense because Czech hockey was the only way that the Czech's could stand up to USSR and win.) So, when they come together as a team to show the world what they can do, they bring their A game. This really doesn't happen with any other country. (Except the Finns, but, Finnish players tend to be hard working leaders at all levels of play) So, Czechs are an exception to the rule, and, as GBC pointed out, when this unity through pride doesn't occur, they tend to fail spectacularly.

What about the Russians? On paper they should be perrenial contenders, and yet, they aren't. While in their prime, they had guys like Mikhailov to lead them. Leadership is the number one problem in the Russian hockey program, followed by defence.

 

[statistics]

What about the Russians? On paper they should be perrenial contenders, and yet, they aren't. While in their prime, they had guys like Mikhailov to lead them. Leadership is the number one problem in the Russian hockey program, followed by defence.

They do well at WJCs and Russia is the only country to finish top 4 in four last olympics (1994, 1998, 2002 and 2006).