Blue Jays Discussion: Alright, no more discontent. Just baseball | ST in Mtl: StL @ Tor | Mar 26/27 7pm ET/4pm PT

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by The Nemesis, Feb 20, 2018.

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  1. Gargyn

    Gargyn Registered User

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    Looking at the bullpen, I think it’s gojng to be very strong. Tough choice as to who will be in and who will be out. Have to believe Osuna, Loup, Barnes, Oh, Clippard, Axford, Tepera, Santos and Alburquerque have all done enough to earn jobs but not enough jobs there. Very curious to see it play out but have to say I’m impressed with the front office finding an economical way to improve the pen.
     
  2. phillipmike

    phillipmike Registered User

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    Anthopoulos joins Executive Access podcast

    Anthopoulos: If Blue Jays didn't trade Wells, we would have lost Bautista - Sportsnet.ca

    On Bautista:
    On Martin:
     
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  3. Eyedea

    Eyedea The Legend Continues

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    Cool thing about the Martin deal was that league wide consensus (or at least fan perception) had it as an overpayment. Well, he accumulated 9.3 WARP over the first 3 years of his deal, showing that he has essentially already provided surplus value.
     
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  4. TheTotalPackage

    TheTotalPackage Registered User

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    I still sorely miss AA.
     
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  5. qmjhlisles

    qmjhlisles Registered User

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    Why? He was very over rated who tore the farm system apart
     
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  6. Mach85

    Mach85 Registered User

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    Which prospects do you really want back other than Syndergaard?
     
  7. Diamond Joe Quimby

    Diamond Joe Quimby A$AP Joffrey

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    Nonsense.

    The only three things I'd really change are:

    1. Syndergaard\d'Arnaud not traded, or at least, traded for Gonzalez the winter prior (which I said at the time)
    2. Seager drafted over DJ Davis
    3. Turner drafted over Max Power

    But that's it. Investment grade GM. Atlanta is lucky to have him.
     
  8. Mach85

    Mach85 Registered User

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    Agreed. The toolsy Davis pick. And IIRC there was some talk of Turner going to the Jays (maybe that was with the other first though...) so that stings a little more. But every GM has such regrets, I suppose.
     
  9. phillipmike

    phillipmike Registered User

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    Unless you guys have info i dont you cant fault him on the drafted players as that is mostly up to the the scouting director.

    For me its just the Dickey deal and the Tulo contract not the player as he served his purpose in 2015 and 2016. Tulo as a player was great (he and Reyes were my favorite MLB players) and had he had 2 years remaining instead of 5 it would have been a fine deal... but from day one we knew he was injury prone and had term. Now we really see that he is injury prone and the contract is anchor - still has time to prove himself again but no one is holding their breath. The problem isnt what Hoffman/Castro are worth now but what they were worth at that time and what else you could have got with those assets.

    Every other big AA deal worked out for the most part. WAR per $ and loss of prospects in the Marlins deal may prove it was bad but that was a gamble any GM would make regardless of how the prospects look today. AA did the right thing with the Marlins deal. Had an abundance of payroll to spend and prospects to deal.

    I will say i was 100% against the Martin deal and i was clearly wrong so ill post that here.

    But for me its only Dickey because of Syndergaard and Tulo the contract not so much the player.

    I guess Farrell could be one but how could AA know that he would be a spineless employee... plus he made it up with Gibby which i questioned at the time too.
     
  10. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    He made the appropriate trades at the correct time. AA was a very good GM. When he took over JP Ricciardi left him nothing in the farm system. AA built that up and the current regime is continuing that trend.
     
  11. The Nemesis

    The Nemesis Semper Tyrannus

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    He did well for like 90% of the time, but that last summer when it looked like he could be on the way out (and ultimately was, albeit by his own choice rather than a firing) he had no compunction about skimming off the top level of the farm for Price, Tulo, etc. I don't wholly fault him for doing that since it's pretty much standard practice with GMs who feel the crosshairs settling onto them, but it's also hard to excuse the kind of reckless attitude that incoming GMs often grumble about in a sort of "it's not OK because I didn't do it, but if I do do it, it'll be totally different." sort of way.

    Ultimately it doesn't seem like many of those pieces he traded away are going to come back to haunt the Jays other than Syndergaard (though I will contend that there was some early belief around the Lansing 3 that he was the least desirable of the trio behind Sanchez and Nicolino), I can't help but wonder how things might've been helped if the Jays had still had some prospect bullets in the chambers in the likes of Hoffman and Norris instead of Price walking for nothing and Tulo degenerating into shambling cash-zombie Tulo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  12. Jozay

    Jozay lolwut?

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    the price he paid was fully worth it.
     
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  13. Kurtz

    Kurtz Registered User

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    Yeah, knowing what we know now, I still very much do the deal. Those few months were amazing.
     
  14. TootooTrain

    TootooTrain Southern Hospitality

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    The previous 2-3 seasons were the first breath of being actually competitive in a long time. As much as it sucks, it was a jolly good time to be a Jays fan.
     
  15. canucksfan

    canucksfan Registered User

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    The Jays were in a spot to compete though. Adding Price and Tulo and the other pieces were keys to their playoff run. A long drought was put an end to and they also competed the year after that. Luckily the prospects they gave up haven't done that well too.

    I really liked AA and his willingness to take risks. Since I have been following the Jays they have had pretty good GMs. Gillick, Ash(a bit too young to remember but he seemed good) AA and now Atkins. JP was terrible. I am surprised he lasted that long.
     
  16. The Nemesis

    The Nemesis Semper Tyrannus

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    Tulo really wasn't though. He was quietly awful as a Jay, slashing a meager .249/.300/.678 with a 92 wRC+ for the Toronto portion of his season. His value was basically entirely saved by playing crazy good D for those closing months of the season, which he hasn't come close to repeating since then.

    Almost all of his recognition for contributing to the playoff run seems like it's come from that weird sort of "look at the team's record after he was acquired, therefore he must've been responsible for it." narrative way that doesn't tend to hold up to real scrutiny.
     
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  17. zeke

    zeke #freeVladdy

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    the upgrade from Reyes' liability defense to Tulo's elite defense was transformative, and a massive reason why that team became dominant and made back to back ALCS.
     
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  18. Maplebeasts

    Maplebeasts I See Demons!!!!!

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    Those were some dark, dark days. The only thing I liked about Reyes was his speed.
     
  19. Christ

    Christ Registered User

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    I think he had a nice beard myself...;)
     
  20. TheTotalPackage

    TheTotalPackage Registered User

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    My useless info intake of the day is that Vlad Jr. was born in Montreal and is a Canadian citizen. Which I was completely surprised by, even knowing Sr. was there for eight years. Then I looked up Sr., and read he has eight children with five different women. :laugh:
     
  21. Gargyn

    Gargyn Registered User

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    Guy was not just potent with the bat.
     
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  22. zeke

    zeke #freeVladdy

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  23. TheBeastCoast

    TheBeastCoast Registered User

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    God damn he just can not seem to stay healthy.
     
  24. SAMCRO44

    SAMCRO44 Registered User

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    Nope. Pompey couldn't either and maybe his ship has sailed?
     
  25. SAMCRO44

    SAMCRO44 Registered User

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    Sounds minor at least

     
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