Blue Jays Discussion: Alright, no more discontent. Just baseball | ST in Mtl: StL @ Tor | Mar 26/27 7pm ET/4pm PT

[Gargyn]

Looking at the bullpen, I think it’s gojng to be very strong. Tough choice as to who will be in and who will be out. Have to believe Osuna, Loup, Barnes, Oh, Clippard, Axford, Tepera, Santos and Alburquerque have all done enough to earn jobs but not enough jobs there. Very curious to see it play out but have to say I’m impressed with the front office finding an economical way to improve the pen.

 

[phillipmike]

Anthopoulos joins Executive Access podcast

Anthopoulos: If Blue Jays didn't trade Wells, we would have lost Bautista - Sportsnet.ca

On Bautista:

Anthopoulos discussed the infamous salary dump during an excellent episode of MLB.com’s Executive Access podcast.

“If we don’t move Vernon Wells, I can’t tell you Jose Bautista stays in Toronto or that we’re able to afford signing him,” Anthopoulos, now GM of the Atlanta Braves, told host Mark Feinsand.

On Martin:

“He was the No. 1 target and we had to have him,” Anthopoulos said.

Anthopoulos and the Blue Jays played up the Canadian angle, too. He drove to Montreal on five occasions to meet Martin and even booked a suite at the Bell Centre for the Montreal Canadiens fan.
“We did it quietly. We met with him an hour before the [Canadiens] game and then I said, ‘Hey the box is yours. Bring in your buddies.’

“I remember telling him, ‘We’re going to sign you,'” Anthopoulos added. “I don’t care — you’re going to meet with the Cubs and the Dodgers and all that, but just know that we’re going to sign you. There’s no option.”

Martin was having a hard time deciding on where to sign when during a conference call with the Toronto front office, Anthopoulos and Co. played the Canadian national anthem to break the ice.

 

[Eyedea]

Cool thing about the Martin deal was that league wide consensus (or at least fan perception) had it as an overpayment. Well, he accumulated 9.3 WARP over the first 3 years of his deal, showing that he has essentially already provided surplus value.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I still sorely miss AA.

 

[qmjhlisles]

I still sorely miss AA.

Why? He was very over rated who tore the farm system apart

 

[Mach85]

Why? He was very over rated who tore the farm system apart

Which prospects do you really want back other than Syndergaard?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Why? He was very over rated who tore the farm system apart

Nonsense.

Which prospects do you really want back other than Syndergaard?

The only three things I'd really change are:

1. Syndergaard\d'Arnaud not traded, or at least, traded for Gonzalez the winter prior (which I said at the time)
2. Seager drafted over DJ Davis
3. Turner drafted over Max Power

But that's it. Investment grade GM. Atlanta is lucky to have him.

 

[Mach85]

Nonsense.



The only three things I'd really change are:

1. Syndergaard\d'Arnaud not traded, or at least, traded for Gonzalez the winter prior (which I said at the time)
2. Seager drafted over DJ Davis
3. Turner drafted over Max Power

But that's it. Investment grade GM. Atlanta is lucky to have him.

Agreed. The toolsy Davis pick. And IIRC there was some talk of Turner going to the Jays (maybe that was with the other first though...) so that stings a little more. But every GM has such regrets, I suppose.

 

[phillipmike]

Unless you guys have info i dont you cant fault him on the drafted players as that is mostly up to the the scouting director.

For me its just the Dickey deal and the Tulo contract not the player as he served his purpose in 2015 and 2016. Tulo as a player was great (he and Reyes were my favorite MLB players) and had he had 2 years remaining instead of 5 it would have been a fine deal... but from day one we knew he was injury prone and had term. Now we really see that he is injury prone and the contract is anchor - still has time to prove himself again but no one is holding their breath. The problem isnt what Hoffman/Castro are worth now but what they were worth at that time and what else you could have got with those assets.

Every other big AA deal worked out for the most part. WAR per $ and loss of prospects in the Marlins deal may prove it was bad but that was a gamble any GM would make regardless of how the prospects look today. AA did the right thing with the Marlins deal. Had an abundance of payroll to spend and prospects to deal.

I will say i was 100% against the Martin deal and i was clearly wrong so ill post that here.

But for me its only Dickey because of Syndergaard and Tulo the contract not so much the player.

I guess Farrell could be one but how could AA know that he would be a spineless employee... plus he made it up with Gibby which i questioned at the time too.

 

[canucksfan]

Why? He was very over rated who tore the farm system apart

He made the appropriate trades at the correct time. AA was a very good GM. When he took over JP Ricciardi left him nothing in the farm system. AA built that up and the current regime is continuing that trend.

 

[The Nemesis]

He made the appropriate trades at the correct time. AA was a very good GM. When he took over JP Ricciardi left him nothing in the farm system. AA built that up and the current regime is continuing that trend.

He did well for like 90% of the time, but that last summer when it looked like he could be on the way out (and ultimately was, albeit by his own choice rather than a firing) he had no compunction about skimming off the top level of the farm for Price, Tulo, etc. I don't wholly fault him for doing that since it's pretty much standard practice with GMs who feel the crosshairs settling onto them, but it's also hard to excuse the kind of reckless attitude that incoming GMs often grumble about in a sort of "it's not OK because I didn't do it, but if I do do it, it'll be totally different." sort of way.

Ultimately it doesn't seem like many of those pieces he traded away are going to come back to haunt the Jays other than Syndergaard (though I will contend that there was some early belief around the Lansing 3 that he was the least desirable of the trio behind Sanchez and Nicolino), I can't help but wonder how things might've been helped if the Jays had still had some prospect bullets in the chambers in the likes of Hoffman and Norris instead of Price walking for nothing and Tulo degenerating into shambling cash-zombie Tulo.

 

[Jozay]

the price he paid was fully worth it.

 

[Kurtz]

the price he paid was fully worth it.

Yeah, knowing what we know now, I still very much do the deal. Those few months were amazing.

 

[TootooTrain]

The previous 2-3 seasons were the first breath of being actually competitive in a long time. As much as it sucks, it was a jolly good time to be a Jays fan.

 

[canucksfan]

He did well for like 90% of the time, but that last summer when it looked like he could be on the way out (and ultimately was, albeit by his own choice rather than a firing) he had no compunction about skimming off the top level of the farm for Price, Tulo, etc. I don't wholly fault him for doing that since it's pretty much standard practice with GMs who feel the crosshairs settling onto them, but it's also hard to excuse the kind of reckless attitude that incoming GMs often grumble about in a sort of "it's OK

Ultimately it doesn't seem like many of those pieces he traded away are going to come back to haunt the Jays other than Syndergaard (though I will contend that there was some early belief around the Lansing 3 that he was the least desirable of the trio behind Sanchez and Nicolino), I can't help but wonder how things might've been helped if the Jays had still had some prospect bullets in the chambers in the likes of Hoffman and Norris instead of Price walking for nothing and Tulo degenerating into shambling cash-zombie Tulo.

The Jays were in a spot to compete though. Adding Price and Tulo and the other pieces were keys to their playoff run. A long drought was put an end to and they also competed the year after that. Luckily the prospects they gave up haven't done that well too.

I really liked AA and his willingness to take risks. Since I have been following the Jays they have had pretty good GMs. Gillick, Ash(a bit too young to remember but he seemed good) AA and now Atkins. JP was terrible. I am surprised he lasted that long.

 

[The Nemesis]

The Jays were in a spot to compete though. Adding Price and Tulo and the other pieces were keys to their playoff run. A long drought was put an end to and they also competed the year after that. Luckily the prospects they gave up haven't done that well too.

I really liked AA and his willingness to take risks. Since I have been following the Jays they have had pretty good GMs. Gillick, Ash(a bit too young to remember but he seemed good) AA and now Atkins. JP was terrible. I am surprised he lasted that long.

Tulo really wasn't though. He was quietly awful as a Jay, slashing a meager .249/.300/.678 with a 92 wRC+ for the Toronto portion of his season. His value was basically entirely saved by playing crazy good D for those closing months of the season, which he hasn't come close to repeating since then.

Almost all of his recognition for contributing to the playoff run seems like it's come from that weird sort of "look at the team's record after he was acquired, therefore he must've been responsible for it." narrative way that doesn't tend to hold up to real scrutiny.

 

[zeke]

Tulo really wasn't though. He was quietly awful as a Jay, slashing a meager .249/.300/.678 with a 92 wRC+ for the Toronto portion of his season. His value was basically entirely saved by playing crazy good D for those closing months of the season, which he hasn't come close to repeating since then.

Almost all of his recognition for contributing to the playoff run seems like it's come from that weird sort of "look at the team's record after he was acquired, therefore he must've been responsible for it." narrative way that doesn't tend to hold up to real scrutiny.

the upgrade from Reyes' liability defense to Tulo's elite defense was transformative, and a massive reason why that team became dominant and made back to back ALCS.

 

[Maplebeasts]

the upgrade from Reyes' liability defense to Tulo's elite defense was transformative, and a massive reason why that team became dominant and made back to back ALCS.

Those were some dark, dark days. The only thing I liked about Reyes was his speed.

 

[Christ]

Those were some dark, dark days. The only thing I liked about Reyes was his speed.

I think he had a nice beard myself...

 

[TheTotalPackage]

My useless info intake of the day is that Vlad Jr. was born in Montreal and is a Canadian citizen. Which I was completely surprised by, even knowing Sr. was there for eight years. Then I looked up Sr., and read he has eight children with five different women.

 

[Gargyn]

My useless info intake of the day is that Vlad Jr. was born in Montreal and is a Canadian citizen. Which I was completely surprised by, even knowing Sr. was there for eight years. Then I looked up Sr., and read he has eight children with five different women.

Guy was not just potent with the bat.

 

[zeke]

Jon Morosi @jonmorosi
21s
#BlueJays OF Anthony Alford, a standout this spring, has an injured hamstring and will be examined today, manager John Gibbons said. He was scratched from today's playing roster vs. #Braves. @MLB @MLBNetwork

 

[TheBeastCoast]

God damn he just can not seem to stay healthy.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Nope. Pompey couldn't either and maybe his ship has sailed?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Sounds minor at least