Speculation: All rebuild related talk (with Poll)

[Ori]

They should start with the coach and fire him if you consider a rebuild - maybe even the GM.

 

[Punchbowl]

The issue with bottoming out for this year and next is we won't get our first round pick back (which would be the high-value pick) we'd be getting whatever we could acquire in a trade.

The teams willing to deal their picks are typically those picking in the late first round, where the draft choices are typically high-risk or low-reward. Dorion's really screwed us over by dealing COL a 1st.

We either have to utterly collapse this year and pray we're better in 2018-2019, or miraculously rebound now to make the playoffs (pretty damn unlikely). The best options for this year are complete opposites; crash and burn or skyrocket, anything in the middle sucks.

 

[Cosmix]

I think a total tear down/rebuild would be a lot more palatable if it weren't Dorion spearheading that initiative.

If his "tweak the roster to win now" moves have brought us, before even hitting Christmas, from "win now" to a conversation about rebuilding the roster, it's scary to think what could happen if this same person masterminds said rebuild. Heck, we don't even have both of our own first round picks in 2018 and 2019, which is depressing on it's own....

If we are blowing things up, I am no longer comfortable with Dorion at the helm so bring in a fresh vision. That's really the only thing I am sure of, in terms of my current feelings toward the Sens. Things aren't great in Buffalo ATM, but they likely have reduced the growing pains when they cut bait with Tim Murray so quickly, so I sort of see a comparison here. This team needs fresh everything, and it starts with ownership, but that's a separate conversation. For the purposes of this thread, like I said, my only concrete feeling currently is that if it's a rebuild, it can't proceed with Dorion. It's been a disaster with Dorion.

The team is so disengaged, it's really a sight to behold. It'd be interesting to get Boucher's sports-psychology take on all of this, because honestly, what is going isn't easily understood. I'm not sure firing Boucher is the answer (though I'm not sure), but the moves are on Dorion. We are easily the laziest team in the league now and perhaps the chemistry took a fatal hit somewhere, whether it was a trade or just the toxic culture that seems to have plagued the team since Leeder was fired that has bled into the locker room; behind the scenes stuff....

Sorry, long winded! In summary: if you're rebuilding, it's free of Dorion. Too dangerous.

Both Full Rebuild and Win Now strategies should be without Dorion.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

The issue with bottoming out for this year and next is we won't get our first round pick back (which would be the high-value pick) we'd be getting whatever we could acquire in a trade.

The teams willing to deal their picks are typically those picking in the late first round, where the draft choices are typically high-risk or low-reward. Dorion's really screwed us over by dealing COL a 1st.

We either have to utterly collapse this year and pray we're better in 2018-2019, or miraculously rebound now to make the playoffs (pretty damn unlikely). The best options for this year are complete opposites; crash and burn or skyrocket, anything in the middle sucks.

This is a big concern of mine too. Ideally we can semi-bounceback to get our 2018 1st out of the top ten in the draft so THAT one goes to the Avs, so we are free to rebuild next year if it comes to that.

 

[WadeRedden]

This is a big concern of mine too. Ideally we can semi-bounceback to get our 2018 1st out of the top ten in the draft so THAT one goes to the Avs, so we are free to rebuild next year if it comes to that.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the Sens have the right to choose whether to send the 1st in 2018 or 2019. Although the pick is top-10 protected, they're not obligated to keep it just because they finish 9th or whatever. Like, if the Sens finish 6-10 they might just ship it to Colorado and hope to completely bottom out in 2019 after Karlsson and Duchene are traded.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the Sens have the right to choose whether to send the 1st in 2018 or 2019. Although the pick is top-10 protected, they're not obligated to keep it just because they finish 9th or whatever. Like, if the Sens finish 6-10 they might just ship it to Colorado and hope to completely bottom out in 2019 after Karlsson and Duchene are traded.

I’m not sure how it works either, but I assume if it’s a top ten pick they’d hang onto it.

 

[Fandlauer]

I was under the impression that if we get a top ten pick this year, then we get to choose if we want to keep it or not. If we fall out of the top 10 then this year it goes to Sakic.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Yep. The next two drafts are key. If we miss the playoffs and finish in the bottom 9 (or whatever), and we keep the pick....what happens if Erik says next fall he doesn't want to be here for a rebuild and looks for a trade? All of a sudden we finish bottom of the league, and give Colorado a top 5 2019 pick.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I was under the impression that if we get a top ten pick this year, then we get to choose if we want to keep it or not. If we fall out of the top 10 then this year it goes to Sakic.

This was also my understanding.

Is 2018 a better draft class than 2019?

 

[Wallet Inspector]

I say if our pick is in the 6-9 range we give it up to Colorado if we get that choice. Just bite the bullet this year so we are worry free next year in case we suck again.

 

[BondraTime]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the Sens have the right to choose whether to send the 1st in 2018 or 2019. Although the pick is top-10 protected, they're not obligated to keep it just because they finish 9th or whatever. Like, if the Sens finish 6-10 they might just ship it to Colorado and hope to completely bottom out in 2019 after Karlsson and Duchene are traded.

I would think that is correct.

One of the reasons the Sens are in such a rough spot. What do they do?

 

[Punchbowl]

I was under the impression that if we get a top ten pick this year, then we get to choose if we want to keep it or not. If we fall out of the top 10 then this year it goes to Sakic.

That's correct -- it just would suck to have a pretty terrible year, finish 19th or something, then watch Sakic make our pick.

This seems like a very realistic possibility to me because I don't think the team is sufficiently awful to remain in the basement nor sufficiently strong to surge back into a playoff position. We'll likely rebound at some point and maybe even hit a win streak that puts us just short of a playoff berth.

At least if you finish just outside the playoffs you have the consolation of a decent pick, whereas in this situation we'd get no playoffs + no pick.

It's the worst of both worlds.

We essentially just have to wait this year out, which sounds pretty miserable as a fan.

 

[NyQuil]

We essentially just have to wait this year out, which sounds pretty miserable as a fan.

Well, I always figured it was a possibility, we hardly waltzed into the playoffs last year.

I just didn't think it would be early December onwards.

We just need to channel the 2006-2007 Senators who stunk it up and then miraculously turned everything around at Christmas with all of our centres getting injured one at a time.

 

[Zorf]

I'm still weirdly optimistic about the core group and I'm fine with tanking this year with how things are going, getting a snazzy draft pick, firing Boucher over the summer, and then being a serious dark horse next season.

I think the Sens can unload some non-core pieces this year at the deadline to lighten the load on Eugene's wallet. I'm talking depth guys for later round draft picks. Minor moves. I also think that Zach Smith would draw a bit of interest at the deadline. Teams would like to have his skill and physicality going into the playoffs.

I don't think it's realistic to think that Dion or Bobby will ever be traded or bought out.


Still, I think the excitement of a new coach (Crawford), core guys signed over the summer, some youthful exuberance in White/Chlapik/Brown/Chabot/Harpur will go a long way. Not to mention Duchene being comfortable in his surroundings.

Garbage this year. Cinderella story next year.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yep. The next two drafts are key. If we miss the playoffs and finish in the bottom 9 (or whatever), and we keep the pick....what happens if Erik says next fall he doesn't want to be here for a rebuild and looks for a trade? All of a sudden we finish bottom of the league, and give Colorado a top 5 2019 pick.

IF the Senators, after the Lottery, ends up with a first round pick anywhere between 1st and 10th........ they should use it.

Next season, you would think, they'd finish higher ( in the Draft ) than between 1st and 10th..... and that's the pick they hand to Sakic.

IF EK65 decides to not re-sign in Ottawa (after next summer) he can be traded for players/picks/ prospects ....... among them would be a 1st round pick or two ....... so they would still be selecting in the first round, with the acquired pick(s)

 

[aragorn]

Is it clear that we have to be in a top 10 position to decide whether we keep it or give it up? What if we are in 10 to 15th place does Col automatically get that pick or do we have a choice? If we have a choice I'd wait right up to my turn at the draft & see who is available before deciding to give up the pick or draft a player who is available at that spot who you might really want. Col would have to do their due diligence & be ready to draft at that spot, if it is given to them & if not wait for next yr.

I would also wait until the summer before deciding whether to trade Karlsson or not, I assume he would get a much better return when the teams have all of their flexibility in the summer. This would allow Ottawa to use their 2018 1st rd pick at the draft & acquire another 1st rd pick from trading Karlsson for the following draft when they have to hand over their 1st rd pick to Col. This way they don't lose a 1st rd pick in the next two drafts, however, they do lose Karlsson.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

They should start with the coach and fire him if you consider a rebuild - maybe even the GM.

I would rather replace the GM and the AGM with someone competent that has experience in that seat. The Lombardi suggestion is a good one imo,,Let him decide what to do w the coaches... Leaving PD in there to orchestrate any kind of retool or rebuild is asking for even more trouble than we have now,,,, Randy Lee has no business in any king of GM seat

 

[alfstheman]

I also think that Zach Smith would draw a bit of interest at the deadline. Teams would like to have his skill and physicality going into the playoffs.

Only problem with Smith is he has 4 more years on his contract @3.25 mill

That is a hard pill to swallow considering he has only 1 goal this year. I dont think any teams would trade anything of value for him.

 

[NyQuil]

Only problem with Smith is he has 4 more years on his contract @3.25 mill

That is a hard pill to swallow considering he has only 1 goal this year. I dont think any teams would trade anything of value for him.

He's actually getting a lot of interest on the trade board, believe it or not.

 

[robsenz]

Just replace certain players with better players...easy enough.

 

[alfstheman]

He's actually getting a lot of interest on the trade board, believe it or not.

That would be nice, I like smith but we have too many players earning more than they are worth. Phaneuf and Ryan really limit our options...

I would like to see Ceci go but unfortunately he is the best of the bad options we have

 

[Agent Zub]

Bringing Lombardi in likely means we get Sutter as a coach. After, Boucher I don't think another hard ass like Sutter is the answer.

Heck Sutter won LA two cups and the players tuned him out.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Is next seasons draft better than this one?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

The issue with bottoming out for this year and next is we won't get our first round pick back (which would be the high-value pick) we'd be getting whatever we could acquire in a trade.

The teams willing to deal their picks are typically those picking in the late first round, where the draft choices are typically high-risk or low-reward. Dorion's really screwed us over by dealing COL a 1st.

We either have to utterly collapse this year and pray we're better in 2018-2019, or miraculously rebound now to make the playoffs (pretty damn unlikely). The best options for this year are complete opposites; crash and burn or skyrocket, anything in the middle sucks.

I don't see this team tearing it down. Even if we end up trading Karlsson, I think it's going to be closer to a re-tool that results in us being a bubble team again to start 18-19 just like we were reasonably a bubble team to start 17-18. In a Karlsson trade, we're probably getting a very good NHLer back as part of the deal since any team acquiring him will most likely have to shed a big contract to make room to pay him.

Losing something like 9/10 games isn't a fair representation of the talent we have, just like being a goal away from the cup final also isn't a fair representation of the talent we have, just in the opposite direction.

I don't think we're going to rebuild. I also don't think that has anything to do with the logistics of us not having one of our 1st round picks. Even if we had both picks, I think we'd still just scapegoat a few players and make some trades to re-tool with the hope of having another "if we get in, anything can happen" type season in 18-19.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What it comes down to is quite simple.

In Year 1 we overachieved

Now we are underachieving

You don't tear the whole thing down at this point. That would be really stupid.

How about we make the best of now and see how year 3 goes before saying "get rid of most of it and start over".