All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIII - the 23 deadline approaches

[Navin R Slavin]

We either step up or lose.

I don't think this is true. Playoff experience matters, and this team keeps gaining that experience. We've got a lot of maturing offensive firepower just waiting for their next opportunity to step up when it counts.

At this point just take cap dumps for assets for the coming years / offseason...

I think this is true. This franchise is in a great long-term position because the new leadership team has consistently made near-optimal long term plays, and I'd like to see them continue to do that. Sure, they'd love to get a big deadline FA, but so would a lot of other teams who are "in the window".

And that's the thing: there are a dozen teams at any one time who think they are "in the window" and are willing to spend significant assets every year. And there always will be. Every year.

We're also beholden to NMCs at the TDL, and the fact is that some players want to come here (Brent Burns as a UFA) and some don't. It is what it is. The best way to build a long term winner is still building from within, especially if you are good at assessing young talent, which this org clearly is.

The trade deadline will always be frustrating for fans of this org. I think we glorify that 2006 trade for Recchi and Weight, and forget how lucky we were to get through, and frankly how little those guys moved the needle.

 

[NotOpie]

It comes down to this in my mind. We're very solid across the board with our major need being power play scoring. I'd also suggest that we need an upgrade on the 3rd/4th line....somebody who can play the Martinook/Fast role but with more skill/scoring....the 4th line will have to play more minutes going forward and then again in the playoffs. Upgrading that line seems important. Lastly, we need a defenseman who can step up in case of injury, or much like the 4th line, can spell a guy or two down the stretch.

I've also be on the Lawson Crouse train as I think he could play anywhere from the 2nd to 4th line depending on need. I would hope you could fit him in on the PP as a net front guy. To me Noesen has played well, but he is prime for an upgrade.

I'm not sure who the defender is, but it isn't Chycrun. We don't need him and don't need the chemistry turmoil bringing him in would cause. I'd look at a Kulikov type of option.

 

[Svechhammer]

That's the crazy part. What the last few days actually does is make the rest of the regular season that much more interesting again. "If the standings remain the same" is now even more critical than it was before. Wild card + winner of Rangers/Devils (after they beat each other up) is a much different path than Rangers and then Devils. Either way winning in the playoffs is tough but now winning the division is even more important than it was on Saturday.

Devils are only 3 points back and we have a particularly brutal part of our schedule ahead of us.

It is not a sure thing we stay in control of the Metro like we thought a week ago

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Devils are only 3 points back and we have a particularly brutal part of our schedule ahead of us.

It is not a sure thing we stay in control of the Metro like we thought a week ago

No one ever thought it was a sure thing, and if they did they were high.

 

[moses malone 12]

I think the real one to think about was Horvat... would he have been the right piece and would the borg have been OK with that contract extension. We likely could have beaten that offer from the Isles and it wouldn't have been too painful.

ROR chose his destination. No, he didn't have a NTC but the Blues were going to do right by him and send him where he wanted to go. He's an Ontario boy and his family is there so pretty clearly that was his choice and the Leafs also paid a big package.

Kane is choosing the Rangers so c'est la vie on that one.

Meier situation was always being funneled to NJ for whatever reason. Whether it was the GM's working together to make it happen or it was Meier's preferred destination, either way, it didn't seem like it was a truly open bidding process.

Tarasenko, we could have gotten as well but I think it was a bit of an overpay by NYR and not sure he is the right piece or would move the needle. He hasn't exactly started tearing it up in NY but time will tell.

Of the big boys on the rental market, Horvat probably was the one in terms of fit and price that we could have swung.

I thought Horvat would have been a great add. we will add players, perhaps rentals, as we have only 12 forwards at the moment. Need 2 more forwards for injury insurance and perhaps more scoring help. Canes will make trades this deadline.

 

[spockBokk]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

The trade deadline will always be frustrating for fans of this org. I think we glorify that 2006 trade for Recchi and Weight, and forget how lucky we were to get through, and frankly how little those guys moved the needle.

It's also the ultimate results-based glorification; a recent Athletic article actually rated them (Weight/Recchi) as the 2nd and 3rd best pure rental deadline acquisitions since the lockout (coming up on 20 years). They only ranked the Penguins acquisition of Hossa in 2008 as more impactful. It's easy to get it in our heads that most Cup champs do that because we did, but it's just not true. The 4th best "pure rental" on that list was Stastny to the Jets in 2018. 5th is Ron Hainsey to the 2018 Pens. It's just not a common occurrence that these things work out. You'd think at least, with the phenomenon that every year a team wins the Cup, that we'd have a more robust list than that. But it's just not a big factor in most Cup-winning stories.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

		SOS	LEFT
1	Montreal	1.192	23
2	Tampa Bay	1.182	23
3	Buffalo	1.177	24
4	Ottawa	1.167	24
5	Detroit	1.167	24
6	Carolina	1.163	24
7	Toronto	1.160	22
8	Philadelphia	1.157	21
9	New Jersey	1.155	23

our SOS is really close to NJ's so NJ has a hard time left as well.

 

[ONO94]

In all honesty, the only deal I see that the Canes should have made is the one for Orlov and Hathaway. They don't add scoring but Orlov is better than De Haan and Hathaway brings a physical element not present on this team. Neither would require big minutes, so the integration would be easier.

After that, maybe Tarasenko as he is the closest thing to Patches that was out there and Meier, not so much for this year, but going forward. However, both of those players would take time to fit in and who knows if that would even happen this year.

Of those left--maybe Gavrikov to add depth at the bottom, maybe Schmaltz to add scoring--but I don't see a lot of physicality left on the board unless they want to bail somebody out of a bad contract.

 

[Svechhammer]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

Man, the more I read into this the more I believe that SJ was only going to trade him to NJ and only spoke with us to string us along. We were never getting Meier.

 

[ndp]

No one ever thought it was a sure thing, and if they did they were high.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Yup, Horvat was the one for me. This deadline felt dead for us/me after he got traded. He was the one guy that made some sense long term.

I think the tricky one on that is the deal got done so early. The trade happened 10 days after the MaxPac injury so while there would have been time to get it done, it also probably wasn't something the Canes were entirely geared up for. The deal with the Isles had likely been discussed already... obviously not a done deal but the timing wasn't ideal all around.

 

[User13452]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

Can’t be upset they didn’t try

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

It always seemed like NJ had the upper hand and an equal offer or even + or - by a bit and it was going to them. I'm fine with the Canes not completely blowing the bank on Meier... like NJ didn't have to give up Nemec, Holtz, Mercer to get Meier, but the Canes are supposed to open up everything in the vault?

Seems pretty clear, especially from @Svechhammer piecing together of things that NJ was always the intended team and Grier strung along the Canes in order to get the offer to where they wanted it from NJ.

 

[Chrispy]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

Going up to 6 assets is all I can ask for. If Nikishin is untouchable for them, so be it. They made the best offer they could and they move on.

 

[Svechhammer]

It always seemed like NJ had the upper hand and an equal offer or even + or - by a bit and it was going to them. I'm fine with the Canes not completely blowing the bank on Meier... like NJ didn't have to give up Nemec, Holtz, Mercer to get Meier, but the Canes are supposed to open up everything in the vault?

Seems pretty clear, especially from @Svechhammer piecing together of things that NJ was always the intended team and Grier strung along the Canes in order to get the offer to where they wanted it from NJ.

Yep, the whole 'well you didn't include Nikishin, so you weren't willing to play' rings so f***ing hollow right now when NJ didn't have to include any of their top guys and still got Meier with 50% retention.

The Canes were used in this, and SJ was never negotiating with us in good faith. We had our best offer out there for a week, and they strung us along to get what they wanted out of NJ, and from what we're hearing now it sounds likely that offer wasn't as good as what we had on the table.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I get the front office’s reticence to make a trade that impairs future success but this may be the second TDL that they have been out maneuvered in the trade market while the team is in a cup window.

When was the 1st deadline they were outmaneuvered? Last year they had zero cap space and had to do a double retention just to try and fit Domi in.

Secondly, by all accounts from what @Svechhammer reported and the various talking heads said, the Canes did have a strong offer on the table that included futures, so I don't think they are reticent to make a trade that includes futures.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

"We are uncool. FAs will always be problems for guys like us. Good-looking teams, they got no spine. Their rosters never last. They get the FAs, but we're smarter. The only true currency in this bankrupt sport is what you build with your front office when you're uncool."

RIP @lesterbangs

 

[Sigurd]

From Lebrun’s latest, Canes offered picks + 4 prospects, no Nikishin:

“The Canes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially. One of their final offers had six pieces in it, including a first-round pick and a second-round pick, plus prospects. But the one young player they never relented in not wanting to move is Russian blueliner Alexander Nikishin. It might have been a game-changer had Carolina included him in the package, but I don’t blame the Canes for wanting to keep him. They have big plans for him”

LeBrun rumblings: NHL execs on the Tanner Jeannot trade, and how the Devils outlasted the competition on Timo Meier

The Hurricanes tried valiantly over the past 10 days, especially, to make a Meier trade, and the Golden Knights remained in the mix as well.

theathletic.com

Six assets, that would have been a big trade, but I guess it needed a Jarvis or Nikishin in it to push it to the finish line.

So, Carolina needed to trade Nikishin or Jarvis, but meanwhile, New Jersey didn't even trade Holtz; much less Mercer or Nemec?

We offered a 1st round pick + 2nd round pick + 4 prospects (safe to say Morrow, our 2nd biggest prospect and a legit blue chip prospect, was included) wasn't enough for Grier? LOL. Yeah, San Jose getting a $3 million + cap dump until the end of next with Johnsson on top of retaining Meier for 50%, and Muk as the centerpiece prospect, who isn't even New Jersey's 3rd best prospect, was clearly the best offer for San Jose to take.

I said before that I would've replaced Morrow with Nikishin, but given this package we offered, and the fact that Jersey didn't even offer Holtz, who is their 3rd best prospect (excluding Mercer since he's a roster player), nah. Grier isn't a person we should EVER care to do business with again. He was intent on trading with New Jersey, and didn't have good faith trade discussions with us. He either really liked certain player(s) from New Jersey (doubtful since he didn't even get Holtz), or he's a crooked GM doing favors for his friends in New Jersey.

 

[Borsig]

f*** San Jose.

Enjoy sucking for the next 10 years. Swallow hard.