Player Discussion Alexander Ovechkin (Vol. 2)

[brachyrynchos]

The cap space gained by moving him is worth more than his contributions keeping him around.

 

[RandyHolt]

What is more publically humiliating, stripping the C, or making him a full time B6 PP specialist? Something has to change and it may need to be more than a new coach.

Floating through the regular season erodes his game, or prevents him from evolving his game. When he flips the switch, it should surprise no one he gets injured. I remember McPhee sending Vogs over to Russia to ask him if he has been working out. I suspect he could stand to be in better shape and lose weight. He now either lacks the motivation or ability to skate fast. I cannot recall anyone losing so much explosive speed over such a short time, short of a major injury.

Its always been interesting to see the way our team plays without Ovi. I remember ~6 years ago, anytime Ovi was out, the team scored more goals without him. It was a small sample size built up over years, that surprised me. Where are we today. Whats our team corsi with him off the ice, vs on.

 

[TRASHCAT]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...34b6d506b37_story.html?utm_term=.36807baa670f

Yep pathetic.

 

[Acallabeth]

What is more publically humiliating, stripping the C, or making him a full time B6 PP specialist? Something has to change and it may need to be more than a new coach.

Floating through the regular season erodes his game, or prevents him from evolving his game. When he flips the switch, it should surprise no one he gets injured. I remember McPhee sending Vogs over to Russia to ask him if he has been working out. I suspect he could stand to be in better shape and lose weight. He now either lacks the motivation or ability to skate fast. I cannot recall anyone losing so much explosive speed over such a short time, short of a major injury.

Its always been interesting to see the way our team plays without Ovi. I remember ~6 years ago, anytime Ovi was out, the team scored more goals without him. It was a small sample size built up over years, that surprised me. Where are we today. Whats our team corsi with him off the ice, vs on.

What do you mean "short time"? It started as early as in the 2010-2011 season.

Demote Ovechkin to the 3rd line, stop trying to abuse the PP everyone's preparing for, strip him of the C, call him out in public, do whatever's needed to make him take hockey as a hard job, not a very well-paid hobby.

 

[Raptor1990]

I think Washington should definitely trade Ovechkin somewhere else maybe even to Vegas, it seems that Alex caught some burn-out syndrome.

 

[sooni]

I think Washington should definitely trade Ovechkin somewhere else maybe even to Vegas, it seems that Alex caught some burn-out syndrome.

I agree with you. Alex head might be done by now.

 

[ovikovy817]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...34b6d506b37_story.html?utm_term=.36807baa670f

So blame Ovi, and forget the history of chokers? Nice. If not Ovi, I'm not even sure if Washington Capitals still playing in the NHL by now.

 

[Raikkonen]

Barry forgot to prepare the defense and the goalie to show up in the first 4 games and now the one legged Ovechkin is the reason we lost in this beautiful series.

Nice to read that. But who am I kidding. This is to be expected.

 

[RandyHolt]

What do you mean "short time"? It started as early as in the 2010-2011 season.

...

His legs look fine whenever he uses them. His speed and explosion was normal on his last goal scored this year, right? He was probably exhausted but still, he did it.

We stopped seeing that explosion much more this past year, than any other one season drop. Before this year, the erosion in his game, his lack of energy etc was much more subtle. And he would at least use his speed to hit....

But not this past year - he gave up on hitting for all but 2 weeks of the season. Suddenly in April, that speed jump explosion and energy was there. Fans rejoiced, he was gearing up for the playoffs... letdown. I contend during that hitting binge, he got injured from presumed not skating like that all year; likely the hamstring.

It's not a matter of if he can skate fast, it's a matter of if he will. And as he ages, remain healthy after flipping the switch.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Supposedly it was Kadri's dirty hit that did in his knee and then he injured his hamstring in Game 3 versus the Pens. He was hobbled pretty bad and you'd have to think that a healthy Ovie would have been the difference maker there.

No excuses, though. Hornqvist took a lot of abuse and has to be hurting bad and yet he scored a goal in Game 7. Crosby's brains have to be apple sauce and yet he got an assist on their first goal.

Truly great players step up when it matters most. Yzerman played an entire year and won a Cup on one leg.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It all seems to me like a convenient excuse. Being injured is not an excuse for making poor decisions with the puck in the defensive zone and watching your guy score the winning goal in game 7.

He doesn't have what it takes to bring this team to the promised land. He must go for his own sake and to help the Caps go back to being a young, top tier team again.

 

[Jags]

It all seems to me like a convenient excuse

Come on, man. That's some grizzly ****.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Come on, man. That's some grizzly ****.

He was awful before the injury too. He's getting old, injuries have already taken their toll on him. If he won't reinvent his ES game to be based on something other than speed, we'll have to get used to seeing him on the 3rd line.

Look, we're not going to win the Cup with Ovechkin. It didn't happen when he was young and the best player in the world, it won't happen now that he's old and past his prime.

The sooner the Caps management accepts this, the faster we will get to our first championship.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

It all seems to me like a convenient excuse. Being injured is not an excuse for making poor decisions with the puck in the defensive zone and watching your guy score the winning goal in game 7.

He doesn't have what it takes to bring this team to the promised land. He must go for his own sake and to help the Caps go back to being a young, top tier team again.

If you're injured as an athlete it affects the way you make decisions because you can't do the things you normally do. You're normally a half step slower because of your physical limitations and because you're thinking about your injury (even subconsciously) instead of just playing. Ovechkin was a split second slow on both plays in G7... you don't think not being able to move at full speed had anything to do with that?

This series was lost in the first four games when Holtby had an .800 save percentage twice, a .700 save percentage once, and a .900 save percentage once. Holtby almost cost them the series against the Leafs but the team bailed him out. They couldn't bail him out against the Pens. But sure, blame an unhealthy Ovechkin if it makes you feel better.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

If you're injured as an athlete it affects the way you make decisions because you can't do the things you normally do. You're normally a half step slower because of your physical limitations and because you're thinking about your injury (even subconsciously) instead of just playing. Ovechkin was a split second slow on both plays in G7... you don't think not being able to move at full speed had anything to do with that?

This series was lost in the first four games when Holtby had an .800 save percentage twice, a .700 save percentage once, and a .900 save percentage once. Holtby almost cost them the series against the Leafs but the team bailed him out. They couldn't bail him out against the Pens. But sure, blame an unhealthy Ovechkin if it makes you feel better.

See my post above. His decision making was bad before the injuries, it's been bad for a long time. Holtby deserves most of the blame. We're in year 12 of the Ovechkin era and still nothing beyond the 2nd round. This isn't as much about the past as it is about the future of this team. We're not going anywhere like this, should be obvious to you.

You may keep your blinders on.

 

[Revelation]

He was awful before the injury too. He's getting old, injuries have already taken their toll on him. If he won't reinvent his ES game to be based on something other than speed, we'll have to get used to seeing him on the 3rd line.

Look, we're not going to win the Cup with Ovechkin. It didn't happen when he was young and the best player in the world, it won't happen now that he's old and past his prime.

The sooner the Caps management accepts this, the faster we will get to our first championship.

He really wasn't, he wasn't a worldbeater but he was doing his fair share.

We get it though, you decided that it's impossible to win with Ovechkin because it's easier to just blindly believe something than use your mind to figure out that there's only so much you can do playing on one leg and whatnot.

If they decide to do a full rebuild they're gonna be stuck behind 4 or 5 teams for the next decade. They missed the boat on the good drafts with good lottery rules.

 

[Jags]

He was awful before the injury too. He's getting old, injuries have already taken their toll on him. If he won't reinvent his ES game to be based on something other than speed, we'll have to get used to seeing him on the 3rd line.

We SHOULD get used to him on the 3rd line. And oh what a travesty that is. Maybe swap Eller out for a more complementary center and focus on having a top 9 instead of a top 6.

Backstrom is can be a more complete player on a line that isn't all about getting pucks to Ovi's office and turnovers from Ovi's blown rushes.

Kuznetsov can keep doing what he's doing.

Hell, if the cap goes to 75-76m like some say it will and we can get an Eller replacement for cheaper, maybe we can convince Williams to stick around.

If not, we'll be leaning on Vrana, Connolly, and Burakovsky to step it up, but that has to happen at some point regardless. Wilson might have 10 more goals in him.

You have to stop looking at Ovechkin as the foundation of this team. He's not. He's just another piece, and when you view him that way -- just a 70-point piece and PP specialist -- suddenly he's more of an asset than a liability.

 

[g00n]

When you have bad wheels it transfers to the rest of your game. There's pain apprehension throwing you off, as well as the neurochemical and psychological stress reaction to chronic pain. There's the fact your body won't do what your mind is telling it to do, which makes all your efforts less coordinated. There's the fact that even if you find some adapted way to play it's still much less automatic than your normal way and must be thought through instead of done automatically and reflexively. There's a total loss of the zone/swagger state that you rely on to achieve your results. There's depression and anxiety to some degree which compounds all the aforementioned effects.

In short, a bad wheel can take you from hero to zero no matter who you are...and not just in speed or agility.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

See my post above. His decision making was bad before the injuries, it's been bad for a long time. Holtby deserves most of the blame. We're in year 12 of the Ovechkin era and still nothing beyond the 2nd round. This isn't as much about the past as it is about the future of this team. We're not going anywhere like this, should be obvious to you.

You may keep your blinders on.

If you're going to reply, at least don't change the subject when presented with a contrasting opinion.

 

[Raikkonen]

 

[905PENS]

If you guys did trade him. I think the kanes and LV are about the only teams that could afford to take him off your hands. I don't see many teams willing to trade current quality players for him to make the room for him. But anything is possible...For those of you ON the trade him train. What do you feel best case you would get for him? GMs will know your GM semi has his hands tied, so it might knock his return. I don't think a buyout would be a smart move. If anything, id buy out Brooks well before him.

 

[ovikovy817]

We will not trade our franchise player. Stop fantasize.

 

[meangene]

Pens fan here. Think most of the Ovi criticism is overblown. Injured or not, he's a goal scorer, and he scored at more or less the same rate in the regular season this year as he did in the playoffs.

Three times I've watched the Crosby/Malkin Pens beat your team, and three times I've come away feeling totally underwhelmed not by Ovi but by the centers, Backstrom in particular. 87/71 dominate in the playoffs because they're equally as effective in all three zones and can generate offense as goal scorers and passers. Kuznetzov was better this year, but Backstrom has too much of a pass-first mentality imo. Setting up on the halfwall and behind the net and waiting for guys to get open so you can hit them with nice passes might win you lots of games in the regular season, but it's too tight in the playoffs to do that with and sustained effectiveness.

Swapping out Backstrom for a center who's a little more balanced and aggressive with the puck on his stick would make all the difference in the world for the caps imo.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Pens fan here. Think most of the Ovi criticism is overblown. Injured or not, he's a goal scorer, and he scored at more or less the same rate in the regular season this year as he did in the playoffs.

Three times I've watched the Crosby/Malkin Pens beat your team, and three times I've come away feeling totally underwhelmed not by Ovi but by the centers, Backstrom in particular. 87/71 dominate in the playoffs because they're equally as effective in all three zones and can generate offense as goal scorers and passers. Kuznetzov was better this year, but Backstrom has too much of a pass-first mentality imo. Setting up on the halfwall and behind the net and waiting for guys to get open so you can hit them with nice passes might win you lots of games in the regular season, but it's too tight in the playoffs to do that with and sustained effectiveness.

Swapping out Backstrom for a center who's a little more balanced and aggressive with the puck on his stick would make all the difference in the world for the caps imo.

Didn't Backstrom and Kuznetsov just lead the series in goals? They had 4 or 5 each. I thought they were the clear two best players for the Caps. They're not the problem, they're part of the solution if there's one. Now #8 is definitely part of the problem at this point.

 

[meangene]

Didn't Backstrom and Kuznetsov just lead the series in goals? They had 4 or 5 each. I thought they were the clear two best players for the Caps. They're not the problem, they're part of the solution if there's one. Now #8 is definitely part of the problem at this point.

Backstrom had four against PIT, but one was a fluke bounce on a 5-3 PP and one was meaningless window dressing in the 6-2 blowout. He got on his horse and scored a big goal in game five, but the point is why does he not do it more often? He's shown he's capable of making those plays when he wants, but my criticism is that it needs to be his first instinct more. Too often he enters the zone and immediately drifts down the half wall looking to make a pretty pass instead of putting the defense on their heels. Perimeter play is fine if you're an elite shooting winger, but you need more from the center position than just trying to set up wingers for shots.

He's clearly a great player and no way is the loss all on his shoulders, but I think he's a symptom of the Caps problems. Sometimes you have to put aside the globetrotter stuff and just bang in a dirty goal in front of the net. Nether Backstrom or the Caps seem very interested in doing it repeatedly over a seven-game series.