Recalled/Assigned: Alain Vigneault says Emerson Etem has been assigned to AHL for conditioning #NYR
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HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
Miller spent plenty of time on the 4th line over the last three seasons.
Even when he wasn't producing regularly, he made plays. He effectively carried the puck / entered the zone. He cycled and found open teammates.
Even when he wasn't producing regularly, he made plays. He effectively carried the puck / entered the zone. He cycled and found open teammates.
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This is revisionist history imo.
Miller looked like garbage on the 4th line. Early in Kreider's career, he looked like garbage on the 4th line. There's pretty much never a time where playing a legit skilled prospect/young player on the 4th line is appropriate for a long stretch of time.
I swear, most of you couldn't wait to see Etem struggle.
SA16
Sixstring
It's also not really true. Miller played 43 minutes with Glass last year. The year before he played 44 minutes with Moore and 57 minutes with Boyle. The only time he really played on the 4th line was in 2012-2013 where he predictably went 2-2-4 in 26 games and totaled 0 points while playing with Boyle (147/308 mins) and 1 assist while playing with Pyatt (123 mins). And playing with Boyle is hugely different than playing with Glass. Additionally I distinctly remember many people complaining about him that year about trying to be too fact, turning the puck over too much in the d zone etc...and they preferred to play lower risk safer options like Darrell Powe.
silverfish
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Yeah, except for the fact that when Miller spent consistent time on the fourth line in the NHL, he often found himself riding buses in Hartford....
People don't care about TOI stats, man, they don't mean anything.
Etem should've shown more with Glass than Megna did with Nash. It's just the way it is when you're not a draft pick of NYR or a recent call-up.
I don't think that's fair. Conversely, I think that it's more attributed to blind optimism by other posters.
Watching him before becoming a Ranger, it was clear his brain is going to get in the way of him becoming a serviceable player. A shame, because he's got decent size, he's fast (until he gets the puck, then he stops moving his feet for some baffling reason) and he has a good shot.
silverfish
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SA16
Sixstring
Just wait until Buchnevich comes over, plays on the third or fourth line, and you see the double standard of everyone complaining that he's not being used correctly and is being played in the wrong role with the wrong players.
silverfish
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RangerFan23
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- Jul 28, 2010
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SA16
Sixstring
I don't think people are defending Etem solely based on his draft positions. Things about him basically are:
1. He was considered a good/promising offensive talent going into the draft (Ranked #18 by the Central Scouting Bureau and 7.5C on HF) Of course that doesn't mean it's a guarantee.
2. He put up great numbers in the AHL and showed improvement. 13-3-16, 129 shots, in 45 games his first year. 24-30-54, 174 shots, in 50 games his second year and 13-8-21, with 79 shots, in 22 games last year.
So basically you have to ask yourself what is the difference? In the AHL he gets top line minutes, with the other best players on the team, and top line powerplay time. In the NHL he has consistently gotten bottom line minutes, with the worst players on the team, almost no powerplay time, and in the case of this year - absurd defensive zone starts.
Is it possible that he turns out to be a great AHL player who does nothing in the NHL? Certainly. But you can't possibly know that without putting him in a spot that takes advantage of his abilities.
This year he has played 11 minutes with Stepan and 30 minutes with Brassard (207 total minutes played).
Last year he got 68 minutes with Getzlaf and 47 minutes with Perry (500 minutes played.). He did also get 117 minutes with Kesler.
The year before he got 12 minutes with Getzlaf and 19 minutes with Perry (312 minutes). He did play 84 minutes with Selanne/82 with Perreault/80 with Palmieri though.
He's never had a consistent role or chance. 84 minutes with someone like that is basically 5-6 games. A week, week and a half of play. That's it.
If it turns out he's a bust, that's fine, but to cast him off as junk where your basis is that he hasn't "shown something" while put in a completely ridiculous role is just wrong. And the whole he is "lazy" argument is completely incorrect and false (this is the case for almost everyone). Any player that is that lazy would never have even made it to this level in the first place. You don't get there without extremely hard work. And the tweet someone posted of him asking for video to review right when he came here kind of immediately dispels that as a myth.
It's also not really true that players who first come to the NHL are put in a 4th line role and have to work their way up when they are offensive players. There's a bunch of examples this year who aren't.
Domi basically immediately got top line ice time in Arizona.
Duclair played about 40% of his ice time last year with Hayes/Hagelin. He also played about 25% with MSL and that's a guy on the Rangers! He got a total of 20 mintues (10%) of his ice time with Glass.
Pastrnak got a ton of ice time with Lucic last year (and only 30/530 minutes with 4th liner Gregory Campbell). Same for Spooner.
Panarin has played with Kane almost the entire year. He was a KHL guy but he's still young and it's not like they tried to force him into a defensive role.
Saad played almost entirely with Toews his rookie year.
Larkin's been on one of their top 3 lines all year (and that's all Etem needs to be. He doesn't need to be on the first line. He just shouldn't be on the all defense fourth line). And yea he's "shown a lot" but he's also played with Zetterberg a ton.
Draisaitl came up from the AHL this year and basically was instantly put with Hall.
When Toffoli came upalmost all of his ice time was with either Mike Richards or Carter
Forsberg last year played with Ribeiro almost the whole year. When he didn't he still had Mike Fisher who is another 40ish point player.
When Mark Stone first came up two years ago he got 63% of his ice time with Turris and also got a bunch of MacArthur.
Fabbri this year has played all over the lineup but it's mostly between guys like Lehtera or Backes or such. He hasn't been buried with Brodziak or Reaves.
Obviously there are some counter examples in similar spots as Etem (Miller when he came up/Kreider some/Brett Connolly for one) but the idea that players aren't just instantly put in a role with good players and a chance to create offense without "showing something" and working themselves up is just a fallacy.
1. He was considered a good/promising offensive talent going into the draft (Ranked #18 by the Central Scouting Bureau and 7.5C on HF) Of course that doesn't mean it's a guarantee.
2. He put up great numbers in the AHL and showed improvement. 13-3-16, 129 shots, in 45 games his first year. 24-30-54, 174 shots, in 50 games his second year and 13-8-21, with 79 shots, in 22 games last year.
So basically you have to ask yourself what is the difference? In the AHL he gets top line minutes, with the other best players on the team, and top line powerplay time. In the NHL he has consistently gotten bottom line minutes, with the worst players on the team, almost no powerplay time, and in the case of this year - absurd defensive zone starts.
Is it possible that he turns out to be a great AHL player who does nothing in the NHL? Certainly. But you can't possibly know that without putting him in a spot that takes advantage of his abilities.
This year he has played 11 minutes with Stepan and 30 minutes with Brassard (207 total minutes played).
Last year he got 68 minutes with Getzlaf and 47 minutes with Perry (500 minutes played.). He did also get 117 minutes with Kesler.
The year before he got 12 minutes with Getzlaf and 19 minutes with Perry (312 minutes). He did play 84 minutes with Selanne/82 with Perreault/80 with Palmieri though.
He's never had a consistent role or chance. 84 minutes with someone like that is basically 5-6 games. A week, week and a half of play. That's it.
If it turns out he's a bust, that's fine, but to cast him off as junk where your basis is that he hasn't "shown something" while put in a completely ridiculous role is just wrong. And the whole he is "lazy" argument is completely incorrect and false (this is the case for almost everyone). Any player that is that lazy would never have even made it to this level in the first place. You don't get there without extremely hard work. And the tweet someone posted of him asking for video to review right when he came here kind of immediately dispels that as a myth.
It's also not really true that players who first come to the NHL are put in a 4th line role and have to work their way up when they are offensive players. There's a bunch of examples this year who aren't.
Domi basically immediately got top line ice time in Arizona.
Duclair played about 40% of his ice time last year with Hayes/Hagelin. He also played about 25% with MSL and that's a guy on the Rangers! He got a total of 20 mintues (10%) of his ice time with Glass.
Pastrnak got a ton of ice time with Lucic last year (and only 30/530 minutes with 4th liner Gregory Campbell). Same for Spooner.
Panarin has played with Kane almost the entire year. He was a KHL guy but he's still young and it's not like they tried to force him into a defensive role.
Saad played almost entirely with Toews his rookie year.
Larkin's been on one of their top 3 lines all year (and that's all Etem needs to be. He doesn't need to be on the first line. He just shouldn't be on the all defense fourth line). And yea he's "shown a lot" but he's also played with Zetterberg a ton.
Draisaitl came up from the AHL this year and basically was instantly put with Hall.
When Toffoli came upalmost all of his ice time was with either Mike Richards or Carter
Forsberg last year played with Ribeiro almost the whole year. When he didn't he still had Mike Fisher who is another 40ish point player.
When Mark Stone first came up two years ago he got 63% of his ice time with Turris and also got a bunch of MacArthur.
Fabbri this year has played all over the lineup but it's mostly between guys like Lehtera or Backes or such. He hasn't been buried with Brodziak or Reaves.
Obviously there are some counter examples in similar spots as Etem (Miller when he came up/Kreider some/Brett Connolly for one) but the idea that players aren't just instantly put in a role with good players and a chance to create offense without "showing something" and working themselves up is just a fallacy.
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eco's bones
Registered User
I don't think it's all that surprising that Etem wound up as an extra forward/4th liner--playing when he can with 4th liners. He had a crap camp and that went a long way towards deciding how things have turned out for him. He was outplayed in camp by both Megna and Gibbons and arguably even Adams. Those guys all went to Hartford while the first rounder got to stick with the team--albeit mostly as a spare.
Other things that hurt Etem are his lack of versatility. He's not particularly physical and not particularly good defensively. At the moment he's a -4 which by the way is the worst on the team. Not really a good energy forward and not a penalty killer. He doesn't move the puck very well--maybe it's more that he's too often trying to beat a opposing D one on one (another thing he's not good at--but a very roller hockeyish trait) than using his line mates.
He's the only forward who hasn't scored a goal for us this year and that's including the much maligned Tanner Glass and the 1 game so far Jayson Megna.
He's had some good games where he's forechecked well and got some good opportunities. Mostly he's had games where he's had almost no impact on the outcome. The game against Florida was really an outlier in my eyes but saying that he could not afford to blow up like that if he wanted to stay in the lineup. Right now there is no spot for him in the top 12 and if Megna shows he can play better and with more consistency he'll be passed by by him too and I'm thinking that's going to happen---but we'll see. FWIW I don't think Etem's even been as good as Glass since his recall.
Other things that hurt Etem are his lack of versatility. He's not particularly physical and not particularly good defensively. At the moment he's a -4 which by the way is the worst on the team. Not really a good energy forward and not a penalty killer. He doesn't move the puck very well--maybe it's more that he's too often trying to beat a opposing D one on one (another thing he's not good at--but a very roller hockeyish trait) than using his line mates.
He's the only forward who hasn't scored a goal for us this year and that's including the much maligned Tanner Glass and the 1 game so far Jayson Megna.
He's had some good games where he's forechecked well and got some good opportunities. Mostly he's had games where he's had almost no impact on the outcome. The game against Florida was really an outlier in my eyes but saying that he could not afford to blow up like that if he wanted to stay in the lineup. Right now there is no spot for him in the top 12 and if Megna shows he can play better and with more consistency he'll be passed by by him too and I'm thinking that's going to happen---but we'll see. FWIW I don't think Etem's even been as good as Glass since his recall.
The key word there is solely. I don't think anyone would argue that's the sole reason they defend him.
You're damn right it plays into how people evaluate players though. That is a fact.
You're damn right it plays into how people evaluate players though. That is a fact.
East Coast Bias
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Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
Maybe AV relegated Etem to 4th line duties to get him better acclimated with the defensive side of the puck, but never felt he understood the system or "executed" it properly. So he didn't give him the chance to play with better players. Doesn't explain why he would just throw Megna with Nash and Stepan, but I've got nothing else. You also have to consider the Rangers were not winning games for awhile. AV is probably less likely to give kids a chance to struggle in a top-6 position when the team is losing. Winning is the bottom line for the coach of a "contender", not player development. If the Rangers were playing good hockey out of the gate and all the way through December, we might not even be having this conversation.
I have to agree however that Etem was not given the proper chance to play to his strengths. The kid hasn't even been on the team one-half of a season.
I have to agree however that Etem was not given the proper chance to play to his strengths. The kid hasn't even been on the team one-half of a season.
Leetch66
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