Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIV

[mpp9]

I realize Orpik is slated to be a UFA after this season and has supposedly lost a step but you would trade a guy playing almost 20 minutes a night at even strength alone, most on the team, plus leading your defense in PK time, blocked shots, and hits, for Laich? Really? What am I not seeing about Orpik's game at the moment?

Laich appears healthy just so far not very effective outside of on the PK. Many feel he is still adjusting to Oates' system and still getting his timing back after being out so long. I don't know but I would trade him for Orpik in a second and I'm pretty sure most around here would completely agree for a number of different reasons.

Should we send the trade agreement to the league office...?

Scuderi, Despres and Bortuzzo can replace what he brings. Scuds on the PK. Despres playing next to Martin. And Bortuzzo's physicality and net clearing. As long as Laich has a clean bill of health, he's exactly what the Pens could use. Size, physicality and net front ability. He'd fill a niche here immediately.

I'd ask for the Caps to retain 750k of his caphit so it'd be doable this season.

 

[SimplySensational]

Chuck Gormley @ChuckGormleyCSN
#CapitalsTalk Alex Ovechkin on hazing: When I was a rookie I got lots of respect. I came here my English, it sucked. Everybody just help me.

 

[BobRouse]

Chuck Gormley @ChuckGormleyCSN
#CapitalsTalk Alex Ovechkin on hazing: When I was a rookie I got lots of respect. I came here my English, it sucked. Everybody just help me.

I do remember a "rookie dinner" story that year where Ovechkin was handed a bill and he was bewildered that he had to pay for it (It was your typical rookie dinner paying thing). It was a few thousand dollars I believe.

 

[Ajax1995]

I'd ask for the Caps to retain 750k of his caphit so it'd be doable this season.

Yeah see this would likely be a problem because my understanding is that you can't just retain salary for one season but instead would have to do it for the rest of the contract which means the Caps would be retaining that for 3 more seasons after this one. That is my understanding anyway but I could be wrong.

 

[artilector]

OK

RE: Leech - I watched this kid in the olympics in 88 and followed the Rangers closely and saw him. He was EXTREMELY similar to green. Great skater, undersized a bit, great wrist shot, etc. Green is more physical and Leech had better passing vision but they are comprable. They both had the puck alot and made their fair share of blunders because of it.

Leech always had an excellent d partner. Patrick/Buekeboom/Samuelsson were all fantastic players.

Leetch was a significantly better player than Green. There were many games in which he dominated with his skating. When Rangers started sucking, many games it was basically him and Richter holding the fort. Green is a very good skater but not in the same league, and doesn't seem to have the confidence any more. Leetch was also never as nonchalant on defense as Green, he at least moved his effin feet in his own zone, which counts for a lot.

Green's physicality is nonsense to me. Throwing a check once in a blue moon means nothing if a) you can't be bothered to close guys down, and b) you have a history of getting ground down in the playoffs. If you ask players to name defensemen that are tough to play against, I don't think anybody is gonna put Green anywhere on their list.

Caps could do worse than Green, particularly since we're 1 quality guy short, but it's been clear for years that he's deeply flawed as a first pairing guy.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Leetch was a significantly better player than Green. There were many games in which he dominated with his skating. When Rangers started sucking, many games it was basically him and Richter holding the fort. Green is a very good skater but not in the same league, and doesn't seem to have the confidence any more. Leetch was also never as nonchalant on defense as Green, he at least moved his effin feet in his own zone, which counts for a lot.

Green's physicality is nonsense to me. Throwing a check once in a blue moon means nothing if a) you can't be bothered to close guys down, and b) you have a history of getting ground down in the playoffs. If you ask players to name defensemen that are tough to play against, I don't think anybody is gonna put Green anywhere on their list.

Caps could do worse than Green, particularly since we're 1 quality guy short, but it's been clear for years that he's deeply flawed as a first pairing guy.

Is Mike Green our 1st pair anymore?

Carslon and Alzner seem to have become our 1st pair.

 

[HeyMattyB]

On another board, I asked "There's got to be an overpaid/under-performing LHD on a team that needs help at center/wing and would be willing to swap albatross contracts (Laich), right?" One of the more in-the-know posters responded, "There is. In fact there is a team with a LHD with a not so good contract that has a 2 goals, 0 assists, and -8 stat line. Contracts are nearly identical."

He was referring to Goligoski. Hardly the ideal LHD candidate, but this would be more about dumping Laich.

 

[fedfed]

On another board, I asked "There's got to be an overpaid/under-performing LHD on a team that needs help at center/wing and would be willing to swap albatross contracts (Laich), right?" One of the more in-the-know posters responded, "There is. In fact there is a team with a LHD with a not so good contract that has a 2 goals, 0 assists, and -8 stat line. Contracts are nearly identical."

He was referring to Goligoski. Hardly the ideal LHD candidate, but this would be more about dumping Laich.

I thought Laich for Goligoski was talked about like two years ago...

 

[artilector]

Is Mike Green our 1st pair anymore?

Carslon and Alzner seem to have become our 1st pair.

He is paid like 1st pair. So if he is 1st pair, then he is flawed in that capacity; if he's not, then he's overpaid...

 

[msrulo]

The forward line combos worked last night, but I still can see some improvement- this is my preference:

Grabovski-Backstrom-Ovechkin
Erat-Johansson-Brouwer
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Volpatti-Latta-Wilson

Grabovski is almost a point per game on the third line... He played Left wing for Toronto. Deserves a promotion to the first line. Demote Laich to the third and you got yourself a team.

 

[Brian23]

Except Chimra, Grabo, and Ward are playing really well together. I actually wouldn't doubt an Erat Grabo Brouwer line could work as well.

 

[msrulo]

Except Chimra, Grabo, and Ward are playing really well together. I actually wouldn't doubt an Erat Grabo Brouwer line could work as well.

True, it would be nice to experiment anyway. I think Grabo is making that line look really pristine .

 

[Burakovsky95*]

3-0 and score 16 goals in those games. CHANGE THE LINES ^ .....?

 

[Fitlanbox]

3-0 and score 16 goals in those games. CHANGE THE LINES ^ .....?

Things are working, so I would leave them as is for now. I guess its not so much that I want to see the lines changed up, its that I just want to see Oates a bit more willing to make tweaks, which he admittedly has been doing the lately. I think its a bit of a catch-22 having Grabs centering Chimera and Ward though. Nobody will deny that that line is not playing well, but I think that as long as they have a competent center(re: not Fehr), that line will produce and work. I think Grabs would be better suited to play a top-6, and can and should produce 60ish points. Swap him and Mojo.

Put Mojo between those Chimera and Ward. He seems to have gotten his mojo(heh) back playing Center, and putting him with 2 hard workers that have proven and good chemistry could do wonders for his confidence at center. He knows he belongs in a top 6 role with the way he produces at wing, let him prove to himself that he can do it at center. Going forward with the current core(Assuming Grabovski is not here long term), this would be huge if he could finally transition to 2C. I don't really trust Laich/Brouwer's production and would prefer to see him on a different line.

 

[txpd]

True, it would be nice to experiment anyway. I think Grabo is making that line look really pristine .

I don't really get it. chimera and ward are going great. why would you want to mess with that? seriously. ovechkin and backstrom are doing just fine. it doesn't make any sense at all.

are you bored?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Leetch was a significantly better player than Green. There were many games in which he dominated with his skating. When Rangers started sucking, many games it was basically him and Richter holding the fort. Green is a very good skater but not in the same league, and doesn't seem to have the confidence any more. Leetch was also never as nonchalant on defense as Green, he at least moved his effin feet in his own zone, which counts for a lot.

Green's physicality is nonsense to me. Throwing a check once in a blue moon means nothing if a) you can't be bothered to close guys down, and b) you have a history of getting ground down in the playoffs. If you ask players to name defensemen that are tough to play against, I don't think anybody is gonna put Green anywhere on their list.

Caps could do worse than Green, particularly since we're 1 quality guy short, but it's been clear for years that he's deeply flawed as a first pairing guy.

I'd say flawed as a 1A Defender. Pair him with a Weber and watch him explode. Just a hunch.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I'd say flawed as a 1A Defender. Pair him with a Weber and watch him explode. Just a hunch.

Disagree. He's lost what he once had.

I've been a Green defender in the past, because he deserved to be defended. This "I saw it all along" stuff that's being thrown around is nonsense, because he's not the same player he was when the undeserved criticism began. I think the injuries have taken their toll.

He had a good stretch of assertive, strong defensive play last season, but this season the offense isn't there, and the defensive play has become lackadaisical. I'd look to move him for someone cheaper who's more reliable, but maybe without as much talent (Dan Girardi would be a good example of such a player).

 

[Halpysback*]

Green's defensive play has always been lackadaisical. He simply can't adjust when his time and space is taken away and cope with those situations, offensively or defensively. Guess what are the first 2 things to go in the playoffs.

Look at how Doughty, Chara, Weber, Keith or Hjarmalsson make plays under pressure. Or for historical perspective Lidstrom or Pronger. It's a game within a game and they play it marvelously. Doughty can routinely curl away from 2 players draping him while maintaining ironclad control of the puck, Lidstrom could chip it to safety 99.9% of the time in a nanosecond, Chara can masterfully shield the puck while still making smart plays, etc. Every elite defenseman has and even guys like Hamhius or Gonchar or Timonen have some mechanism to reliabily deal with high pressure situations when no time and space is available, and they're also always focused as hell on what is going n around them. No one is saying Green should be at that level but he is almost the exact opposite. From the caps closest we have is Alzner on the defensive side of the puck, and Carlson actually seems to benefit with less time and space when his junkyard dog mentality takes over. Green has the urgency of a sloth whether it's game 7 or the preseason.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Green's defensive play has always been lackadaisical. He simply can't adjust when his time and space is taken away and cope with those situations, offensively or defensively. Guess what are the first 2 things to go in the playoffs.

Look at how Doughty, Chara, Weber, Keith or Hjarmalsson make plays under pressure. Or for historical perspective Lidstrom or Pronger. It's a game within a game and they play it marvelously. Doughty can routinely curl away from 2 players draping him while maintaining ironclad control of the puck, Lidstrom could chip it to safety 99.9% of the time in a nanosecond, Chara can masterfully shield the puck while still making smart plays, etc. Every elite defenseman has and even guys like Hamhius or Gonchar or Timonen have some mechanism to reliabily deal with high pressure situations when no time and space is available, and they're also always focused as hell on what is going n around them. No one is saying Green should be at that level but he is almost the exact opposite. From the caps closest we have is Alzner on the defensive side of the puck, and Carlson actually seems to benefit with less time and space when his junkyard dog mentality takes over. Green has the urgency of a sloth whether it's game 7 or the preseason.

Why can't you just call Green "stupid"? You say it in so many words.....but dance around the point?

Green = Box of Rocks

 

[g00n]

Green strikes me as a mimbo burnout who's coasted on the novel upside of a "talented offensive d-man" for years and is finding things don't come as naturally as he gets older and more worn down.

I don't know what the answer is. Just like you couldn't turn 55 into Chara, maybe you can't turn "Casual Mike" into "Iron Mike".

 

[BobRouse]

Well it seems there is lots of Green hate surfacing once again. To me its no different than Murphy and Gonchar hate so we'll have to agree to disagree. All 3 were viewed as "lazy" especially in their own zone. IMO Green, at this point of his career relative to them, is a superior player and will get better defensively.

Leetch was a great offensive dman no doubt but I feel Green is as well. Leetch was not good in his own zone. He simply wasn't. He did have more to work with around him without a doubt. Again I strongly contend that if you were to go back and swap Buekeboom/Patrick/Samuelsson with Shamo/Schultz/Hamrlik history would paint a far different picture.

Calle Jo was a good player here. A nice offensive dman for sure and in 92-93 and 93-94 he was on the first pair with Hatcher. Not terrible d pairing by any stretch. But that was when Hatcher was still a very good player despite becoming weaker defensively and better offensively.

It wasn't until we switched Hatcher out with Tinordi that Calle raised his level of play. Now part of this was due to his own maturation no doubt but to me Tinordi was a perfect compliment b/c he would lug the physical load and crush fools.

A D partner who compliments you makes all the difference in the world and this point is being way overlooked by all the Green haters.

To me its a minor miracle that Green was a 2 time Norris runner up next to Jeff Schultz or Shamo ..neither of whom are NHL players.

 

[g00n]

I was a Green defender. Now I watch that guy loaf on loose pucks and exert minimum effort in favor of stick-waving and dangerous dekes instead of moving his feet EVERY FRIGGIN NIGHT.

He wasn't always this bad. It's not hate. It's reality.

 

[RandyHolt]

It's not hate, more disappointment. The internets seem so quick to just label disappointment, voicing ones concerns or observations, as hate. Hate is a strong word. It's only hockey. When the same guy does well, we ALL like him. That is not hate.

Sure a guy can't bring a perfect game day in and day out, but he can bring a reasonable effort. If you don't skate your arse off in the modern game, you look bad.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well it seems there is lots of Green hate surfacing once again. To me its no different than Murphy and Gonchar hate so we'll have to agree to disagree. All 3 were viewed as "lazy" especially in their own zone. IMO Green, at this point of his career relative to them, is a superior player and will get better defensively.

Leetch was a great offensive dman no doubt but I feel Green is as well. Leetch was not good in his own zone. He simply wasn't. He did have more to work with around him without a doubt. Again I strongly contend that if you were to go back and swap Buekeboom/Patrick/Samuelsson with Shamo/Schultz/Hamrlik history would paint a far different picture.

Calle Jo was a good player here. A nice offensive dman for sure and in 92-93 and 93-94 he was on the first pair with Hatcher. Not terrible d pairing by any stretch. But that was when Hatcher was still a very good player despite becoming weaker defensively and better offensively.

It wasn't until we switched Hatcher out with Tinordi that Calle raised his level of play. Now part of this was due to his own maturation no doubt but to me Tinordi was a perfect compliment b/c he would lug the physical load and crush fools.

A D partner who compliments you makes all the difference in the world and this point is being way overlooked by all the Green haters.

To me its a minor miracle that Green was a 2 time Norris runner up next to Jeff Schultz or Shamo ..neither of whom are NHL players.

Stop with the hyperbole. Green is not Leetch. That is simply twisting reality to fit your own arguments.

Most of us don't hate Green. I like him, I think he's fun to watch, mostly....and can ignite a crowd/team. But he's paid far too much in today's cap world for what he brings to the table. If you are going to pay someone that much of the defense's cap costs (which in of itself a massive issue...the cap cost of the D, or lack there of)', then he needs to be a better player.

End of story. Murphy this or Gonchar that doesn't hide this fact, nor does it fix it.

And lastly, was a Norris candidate on offense alone, with a dynamite offensive system and team. It really didn't matter who played with him, as long as Green played on the PP, and with Boudreau's system.

Why isn't Green that player now? Injuries? Worse D partners? Crappy offensive system? Crappy Power Play? What is your "conclusion", Bob?

 

[BobRouse]

Why isn't Green that player now? Injuries? Worse D partners? Crappy offensive system? Crappy Power Play? What is your "conclusion", Bob?

Green isn't playing well right now. Malkin isn't playing well right now either. There are lots of stretches in a player's career where they don't have confidence and play subpar.

His injury history is well documented but at the end of last year and in the playoffs Green was excellent. Didn't he score like 11 goals in 18 games or something? Didn't that coincide with the Caps going 15-2-2 down the stretch? Its funny that Alzner was his partner then during that time.

Too much reactionary here. Its been 15 games. He'll turn it around. And no it doesn't help that his partner is an undrafted rookie cutting his teeth.

Once he gets rolling he will pile up the points. Just needs some confidence. 37 shots with no goals. That will change. Came close vs Florida but the post denied him. Just needs to get the monkey off his back.