Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXXV -- 2017-18 Training Camp/Preseason Edition

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Raikkonen

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Well... Anyone knows who played for Edmonton as 4th line forwards last night? 3rd pair defenders? The leader scored 3 goals, and they won. Who played the least minutes? Who cares.

Trotz needs to get leaders going, and then he can do all he wants in my opinion.

If the team looks dead in games 1-10 (15?)... can him anyway, Bowey or not.
 

ovikovy817

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May 23, 2015
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Well... Anyone knows who played for Edmonton as 4th line forwards last night? 3rd pair defenders? The leader scored 3 goals, and they won. Who played the least minutes? Who cares.

Trotz needs to get leaders going, and then he can do all he wants in my opinion.

If the team looks dead in games 1-10 (15?)... can him anyway, Bowey or not.

Well, McDavid is McDavid.
Yesterday in Pittsburgh, the leaders also produced. 2 points for Malkin and 2 for Crosby, but they lost.
 

RandyHolt

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Good point Raik. Ovi Nick Oshie Nisky Carlson and Holts have to lead us.

But I am not sure Ovi and Nick have it in them enough to keep Barry afloat to start the year.

I think its safe to say no one expects a 100% (Oshie Grade) effort level from those 2, and I will throw Carlson in there as well.

 

g00n

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Some Caps stuff in the new 30 thoughts.

This post flew under the radar in all the other roster talk....

22. Capitals fans are down on their team, but I remember something Mark Messier said during one of his studio appearances: “In the cap world, every team has a fatal flaw. Can you overcome it?” Washington is still a threat.
“Maybe that’s what this group needs,” Orpik said. “Less expectation. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves, and it worked against us. It might be good for this group, a little different path. I’ve been here three years … others have been here a lot longer than I have, (the loss) affected everyone differently. Barry really had to right the ship. Last year stung a lot more. Who we lost to, and when you know as a group it was your best or most realistic shot at winning. We were making mistakes we hadn’t made all season long, it was out of character.”
Orpik was not concerned with the results in exhibition play. “No one took it easy. We had a hard camp, with the amount of skating we did. I think we’re ready.”

23. Orpik did not want to go into it, but word is the Capitals may de-emphasize the importance of the Presidents’ Trophy in favour of more process-oriented goals. He did say he thinks new blood will help. Last year’s team was basically set the date everyone showed up. This one has pushing for spots. “I was skating with Evgeny Kuznetsov, talking about Pittsburgh. How they’ve found two young guys you’ve never heard of who play great and win. Maybe that’s what we need. Young guys who give you energy. We’re excited about what we have coming.” Jakub Vrana, come on down.

The Orpik quotes confirm what we've observed and said about choking, pressure, and psychological weakness in the organization. What's disturbing today however is the stated notion that less pressure is the solution. That is the WRONG answer.

What happens the first time they face an elimination game at home? Pressure.
What about the first time they're a higher seed, provided they don't slip in at #8? Pressure.
What about late in the game when they really need a goal? Pressure.
Or up late in a game and protecting a lead against a hungry opponent? Pressure.

If you want to win you will face pressure and expectations! Do they expect to sneak in at #8 and then glide to a Cup while nobody notices? How often does the last seed win a championship with no expectations or pressure? The answer for a winning team is not to seek out situations that minimize the outside expectations, but to learn to handle those expectations by NOT INTERNALIZING THEM. Simply tune them out and replace them with other thoughts, usually process-oriented ones. Which brings us to #23 above...

The 23rd item above sounds like another way of saying "playoff hockey/heavy game". Is that what's happening? Are they going back to Trotz's first season where they were lauded for "playing the right way all year" instead of chasing wins? If we read between the lines it sounds like it. Otherwise, the "new blood" mantra may just be code for "guys who are not as jaded and will give more effort", especially since effort is the currency that buys tickets OUT of Trotz's doghouse.

If this team tries to play a "heavy game" all year then Tom Wilson will be out of the league by Xmas. lol
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
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They’re mentally weak, and that’s not on Trotz. He can’t remake some key player’s psyche. If Ovy looks bad early, watch out.
 

g00n

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They’re mentally weak, and that’s not on Trotz. He can’t remake some key player’s psyche. If Ovy looks bad early, watch out.

True, I don't expect Trotz to have the answer for every demon every player possesses or is possessed by, but as the coach he should recognize who's struggles are psychological vs tactical/coaching/fitness/injury/assignments/etc, and whether or not outside help is needed. Nobody else will be in the same position to make that judgment. But I'm not sure he's that kind of coach. He seems more like a "work the quirks away" type.
 

txpd

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This post flew under the radar in all the other roster talk....



The Orpik quotes confirm what we've observed and said about choking, pressure, and psychological weakness in the organization. What's disturbing today however is the stated notion that less pressure is the solution. That is the WRONG answer.

Yes, its the wrong answer. He also said "maybe". He admitted that they choked. He said that the choke pressure is a real thing. I think he knows that the first year with Barry, they were under the radar and they choked within a couple of minutes of making the 3rd round. The best honest answer is that the franchise chokes. the pressure the choking creates paves the way for the next choke. there is a roster full of career chokers and that nobody has an answer for that problem. but he cant say that. we choke, we are doomed to choke again. he cant say that
 

txpd

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True, I don't expect Trotz to have the answer for every demon every player possesses or is possessed by, but as the coach he should recognize who's struggles are psychological vs tactical/coaching/fitness/injury/assignments/etc, and whether or not outside help is needed. Nobody else will be in the same position to make that judgment. But I'm not sure he's that kind of coach. He seems more like a "work the quirks away" type.

Last season after the 2nd Barry era choke and a PesTrophy flames out, Trotz was brilliant keeping them focused to get better. They did. Recongizing who struggles? Its different players every playoffs. Holtby has both stolen series and given them away. Backstrom and Ov have both been dominant and invisible.
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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Yes, its the wrong answer. He also said "maybe". He admitted that they choked. He said that the choke pressure is a real thing. I think he knows that the first year with Barry, they were under the radar and they choked within a couple of minutes of making the 3rd round. The best honest answer is that the franchise chokes. the pressure the choking creates paves the way for the next choke. there is a roster full of career chokers and that nobody has an answer for that problem. but he cant say that. we choke, we are doomed to choke again. he cant say that
But it's all a joke to the players...:laugh:

These are just media cliches. It's all they have beyond hope that the likes of Ovechkin, Burakovsky, Connolly, Vrana and Wilson are capable of picking up the slack and that somehow Reirden can piece together an acceptable blueline. I'll believe the process-oriented stuff when there are actual signs of it. For now, particularly given the "stability" reference, it's still about winning and doing so in the most conventional way possible.

Stephenson cleared waivers.

Vegas claims Malcolm Subban and now waives Pickard. I still don't know what they're doing.
 

g00n

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Yes, its the wrong answer. He also said "maybe". He admitted that they choked. He said that the choke pressure is a real thing. I think he knows that the first year with Barry, they were under the radar and they choked within a couple of minutes of making the 3rd round. The best honest answer is that the franchise chokes. the pressure the choking creates paves the way for the next choke. there is a roster full of career chokers and that nobody has an answer for that problem. but he cant say that. we choke, we are doomed to choke again. he cant say that


It shouldn't even be a consideration. That's the mentality involved: that lowered expectations are possibly an answer. That's bad.
 

g00n

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These are just media cliches.

I don't know...saying your team is so mentally weak that they need to have lower expectations isn't really a common cliche. Common cliches typically focus on what are ironically better solutions to that very problem: ignoring the past and sticking to things you can control in the present while letting the results take care of themselves.
 

txpd

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It shouldn't even be a consideration. That's the mentality involved: that lowered expectations are possibly an answer. That's bad.

Are you suggesting that Orpik and the team leadership should publically be talking up another best record and another expectation of a cup?
 

Langway

In den Wolken
Jul 7, 2006
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I don't know...saying your team is so mentally weak that they need to have lower expectations isn't really a common cliche. Common cliches typically focus on what are ironically better solutions to that very problem: ignoring the past and sticking to things you can control in the present while letting the results take care of themselves.
What I meant more is that they're canned answers that they don't actually believe and, like you said, even those are problematic. They don't actually have answers to these problems beyond sacking up and running into the wall again.
 

um

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+ QuoteCan't blame Orpik for saying less expectation might be good for them. It's not like anything else will change this year that gives him new talking points. It's mostly the same team with the same coaches.
 
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Brian23

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So Vegas puts Pickard on waivers...boy, if only they'd have taken Grubauer. They'd have a starting netminder and we'd be fine on the back end.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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So Vegas puts Pickard on waivers...boy, if only they'd have taken Grubauer. They'd have a starting netminder and we'd be fine on the back end.

They claimed Subban off waivers from the Bruins. They already have a starting netminder in MAF, and Subban can be a decent backup for an expansion team. Let's face it, they were never interested in claiming Grubauer, they knew MAF would accept a move to Vegas to accomodate the Pens.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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True, I don't expect Trotz to have the answer for every demon every player possesses or is possessed by, but as the coach he should recognize who's struggles are psychological vs tactical/coaching/fitness/injury/assignments/etc, and whether or not outside help is needed. Nobody else will be in the same position to make that judgment. But I'm not sure he's that kind of coach. He seems more like a "work the quirks away" type.

What if he does recognize and they’ve already tried to get help? Maybe some guys are just who they are and we’re just screwed as fans?
 

RandyHolt

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I heard today (980am) that Barry had compared losing game 7 to Pitt to losing a loved one.

It seems over the top to say that, and it may have been taken out of context, but regardless he is talking about a lot of mental demons he is expected to overcome. That he likely had even before he got here. I wonder if Reirden is damaged goods.
 

g00n

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Are you suggesting that Orpik and the team leadership should publically be talking up another best record and another expectation of a cup?

What would make you ask that question?
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
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I don't know that his statements are wrong.

Maybe if anything more of "they're not the same, they're not good enough" could be used to get them over the hump. Heck, Ovechkin is in the best shape he's probably ever been in. I'm not sure if they have what it takes to get beyond the demons in the playoffs, but they're still a proud group of athletes.

You never know.

That said, that third pair defensive group. Bleh.
 

Alexander the Gr8

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I heard today (980am) that Barry had compared losing game 7 to Pitt to losing a loved one.

It seems over the top to say that, and it may have been taken out of context, but regardless he is talking about a lot of mental demons he is expected to overcome. That he likely had even before he got here. I wonder if Reirden is damaged goods.

Meh, Reirden has been on the other side (the Pens) for many years. I don't think he's too upset at seeing his former team and former players succeed.

Trotz will never help the players and the leaders of the team overcome their mental demons because he has the same mental demons now.

Trotz has taken the 3 straight second round exits very personally. Those were 3 heartbreaking losses, especially last year's loss.
 
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Sam Spade

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If the Caps are in "barely make the playoffs" area by the deadline and don't move Carlson, they will have made a big mistake. They have no money to re-sign and he should fetch a decent return.

JC74 is literally this years Shattenkirk AND he is better defensively.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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Meh, Reirden has been on the other side (the Pens) for many years. I don't think he's too upset at seeing his former team and former players succeed.

Trotz will never help the players and the leaders of the team overcome their mental demons because he has the same mental demons now.

Trotz has taken the 3 straight second round exits very personally. Those were 3 heartbreaking losses, especially last year's loss.

Yeah, I'm sure they were crushed but from a practical standpoint I could not care less how badly any of them feel about it unless it motivated them to make impactful changes. I don't need to hear it. We can assume they don't like failing. There is no sympathy or prize awarded for "Most Devastated By Losing". What matters is what they do to prevent it from happening again. Talking about how bad you felt seems like zinging out excuses for the fans in order to soften their opinion of you.

Yes yes, the context of a question may have led to that statement but it's pretty clearly hyperbolic and despite what some say there are other ways of answering these leading questions. Smart athletes and politicians do it all the time. A simple redirect is all that's needed.
 
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