Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXII

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Corby78

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Jan 14, 2014
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I agree with artilector. Make a tweek in the bottom 6, see what happens with the prospects, maybe one really surprises. Then make the big deal at the trade deadline.
 

Raikkonen

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Aug 19, 2009
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Trade Carlson? Again?

Guy is the least of our problems. Literally. Maybe on a level with Holtby :P


PS: Loui or die ~ kinda joke. I'd like to see him here but 3C might be a more important hole. Also, too much soft euros. Bura/Mojo has to go to make space for Loui. Vrana is just another one, it's not right.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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Gmbm is going to give young players a look next year (as he should) and hopefully they perform well, but if they do it will be easy to talk oneself into believing the rookies can continue their production in the playoffs and no moves are necessary. This year I think it was more about hoping injuries heal and banking on guys like Kuz and Bura to mature. I don't think Bowey or Vrana should be on the ice in the playoffs no matter how well they play in limited regular season minutes. Which means gmbm is going to have to find a way to cultivate veteran depth at the bottom of the lineup without sacrificing development. I didn't see much of that this season and the result was unsatisfactory, so may as well change up the approach.
 

HecticGlow

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Mar 14, 2016
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Just leaving these here as a reminder...

Not the solution to our defense:


Not the solution to reliable scoring:



Also:

Rushing things can be damaging in the long term:


Sounding promising...


But don't get build your expectations too high:

“His consistency and his ability to contribute points is two things we’d certainly like to see more of,†Mann said. “He’s always looking to pass, so in that way, he doesn’t have a lot of shots on goal. His shots-on-goal total isn’t up there, and if you don’t shoot the puck, you’re going to have a hard time scoring.

“But he’s still young, and he’s still developing.â€


And again:
 

trick9

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With that market i wouldn't hate dealing Orlov. He's easily better than Erik Gudbranson who just returned recent 1st liner that's done well in the NHL, along with very early 2nd rounder (#33) and moved up about 50 spots in later rounds. I think there is a bigger sellers market for mobile top-4 D's, as there is very few available, especially the cheap, and cost controlled options such as RFA Orlov.
 

twabby

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With that market i wouldn't hate dealing Orlov. He's easily better than Erik Gudbranson who just returned recent 1st liner that's done well in the NHL, along with very early 2nd rounder (#33) and moved up about 50 spots in later rounds. I think there is a bigger sellers market for mobile top-4 D's, as there is very few available, especially the cheap, and cost controlled options such as RFA Orlov.

Don't confuse "the market" for "Jim Benning's Fantasy Hockey World". That trade has nothing to do with the actual trade market, Florida committed highway robbery.
 

trick9

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Don't confuse "the market" for "Jim Benning's Fantasy Hockey World". That trade has nothing to do with the actual trade market, Florida committed highway robbery.

Benning also was looking to add D since January, when he kept moaning to the TSN how there wasn't any available. I wonder how many teams turned down package close to what they gave up for Gudbranson for their young D. 30 teams wanting to add D, none really that willing to give up one. Benning is an idiot who overpaid but the market still remains very thin.
 

twabby

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I mean I agree Orlov could probably return something decent, but I don't really think he's worth giving up unless you get an absolute proven commodity in return that will make the Capitals immediately better. Losing Orlov makes the blue line worse now and in the future. If you look at every player on the roster, the one player likely to make the biggest improvement IMO is Orlov.

Unless it's a pretty mindblowing offer, it doesn't make sense for a team competing for the Cup next season. OTOH if you can find a way to use this trade as a "market" for getting rid of Orpik to some sucker team, do it and never look back.
 
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trick9

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I mean I agree Orlov could probably return something decent, but I don't really think he's worth giving up unless you get an absolute proven commodity in return that will help the Capitals win next year. Losing Orlov immediately makes the blue line worse and you also lose the potential that Orlov has. If you look at every player on the roster, the one player likely to make the biggest improvement IMO is Orlov.

Unless it's a pretty mindblowing offer, it doesn't make sense for a team competing for the Cup next season.

Absolutely agreed. I didn't really mean that they should trade Orlov for pure futures (like picks) that won't help them this season, but deal like the VAN/FLA was would make tons of sense. That returned NHL-ready top prospect that's completely ready to take 3C role, and save some money for bigger (or atleast, a good veteran) D addition. Also got some picks, one of which would definitely be a good trade bait, or that could get them another good prospect.

It wouldn't shock me at all if there were team out there that's willing to overpay for Orlov. At times he definitely looks like he could turn out as a top-pairing D, some times he's frustrating to watch. His advanced stats look very good, as well as his P/60 and productivity numbers. Kind of like Green from year ago. If there is team out there that thinks they can coach out those errors in his game, it wouldn't shock me at all if they were willing to offer a very good package for him. The D market is just so thin, and in terms of potential (and cost in assets), Orlov must be near the top of the pile in terms of realistic options for teams looking to add mobile D. That doesn't mean he's worth anywhere near as much as guy like Shattenkirk, but i highly doubt guys of that caliber and age will touch the trade market.
 

MrGone

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There is no way Orlov makes it though an expansion draft. Unless his losing a season to injury keeps him under the limit he will be gone.

Like so many other players we lost for nothing I would move him before that happens.
 

txpd

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There is no way Orlov makes it though an expansion draft. Unless his losing a season to injury keeps him under the limit he will be gone.

Like so many other players we lost for nothing I would move him before that happens.

The Caps are going to lose somebody for nothing. Pretty likely. How do the Caps trade Orlov so as to not lose him for nothing while at the same time getting another player as good or better to replace him?
 

PB12

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Someone tell Oshie to get him and his wife to call Backes and his wife. I know those 4 are real good friends.
 

Raikkonen

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After the draft the league rosters will be watered down a bit. Many/some young defenders will play above their level in the lineup most probably.

Giving Orlov, Schmidt and Bowey the ice team seems like a good strategy. You're losing only 1 at a time.

Also, all teams will face it, so it won't prevent the Caps from winning anything, in itself. Can't fear it.

Also, there is not much certainty about who to protect from forwards. Oshie and Williams don't need that.

Mojo? He's replaceable. Burakovsky. Even Wilson.

You can go with 8 skaters protection and just leave it to the Vegas. GMBM is already targeting +3 new players for 2017-18 season (Vrana, Bowey, Stephenson). Caps will be alright with one gone one way or another.

As it is now, the critical things are to sign Oshie (aging too, but hard to release him I guess) and to get Kuz to another level.

I hope they can position the team to be able to go ALL IN with plenty of cap space. Make 1-2 deals and get the best possible roster in April, not in July.


PS: On Orlov. I don't believe a 24 years old guy can be taught defense to the highest level. I bet he can get better but will always one of the worse guys in the defensive zone (in terms of top-4 quality). If he's durable from now on and still physical - maybe he's ok with the right partner. Is he worth everything to try to keep him? No.
 
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twabby

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PS: On Orlov. I don't believe a 24 years old guy can be taught defense to the highest level. I bet he can get better but will always one of the worse guys in the defensive zone (in terms of top-4 quality). If he's durable from now on and still physical - maybe he's ok with the right partner. Is he worth everything to try to keep him? No.

Offensive skill and playmaking is much harder to teach than defense. Will he ever be Karl Alzner in the defensive zone? Probably not. But I don't think he'll be a disaster either.

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, I think the best course of action for the team is to promote and work on Orlov's strengths rather than dwell on his weaknesses. As an example, Ovechkin works on his one-timers all the time. Yeah, he probably does some defensive drills in practice but a coach would be insane to have Ovechkin practicing defense primarily in practice.

In Orlov's case, they should be working on his outlet and stretch passes, skating, and shooting as much if not more than blocking shots, hitting, etc. This should help his confidence which seemed shattered at the end of the season.
 

capsfan3

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What if we moved a deal centered around Samsonov for Shattenkirk? Thinking they would want top young goalie talent. Then after next season we have the option to either resign him or Alzner while having a stacked D next year. Fixing the D is going to be a lot tougher than making a top 9 better.

For the top 9 I think David Perron would fit nicely into that spot.
 

artilector

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The Caps are going to lose somebody for nothing. Pretty likely. How do the Caps trade Orlov so as to not lose him for nothing while at the same time getting another player as good or better to replace him?

Caps don't need to get a better overall player. They could just sign a cheap bottom pair defensive-minded guy instead -- and end up with more assets and (probably) more cap space. Depending on what you think about Orlov, it's not a net loss (esp. if you spend the extra cap space well), but you have one less blue-chip asset to protect, i.e:

Protect 7 forwards: Ovi, Backstrom, Oshie, Kuz, Bura, Wilson, Mojo. Presumably.
Protect 3 defensemen: Carlson, Alzner, Niskanen.
Protect Holtby.

I'd love for Orlov to stay, but... he has to show more overall long term upside than Niskanen, otherwise it's surely better to get assets for him than a high risk of losing him at expansion, IMO.
 

twabby

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What if we moved a deal centered around Samsonov for Shattenkirk? Thinking they would want top young goalie talent. Then after next season we have the option to either resign him or Alzner while having a stacked D next year. Fixing the D is going to be a lot tougher than making a top 9 better.

For the top 9 I think David Perron would fit nicely into that spot.

I like Shattenkirk but I find it a tough fit in our lineup. Niskanen and Carlson already have the top two RD positions on lockdown, and Shattenkirk is ideally a second pairing RD on a Cup contender. I wouldn't mind him being a 3D because that is a really good 3D, but the futures involved in the trade might be better spent elsewhere, for example in a potential trade for JVR. I always thought Samsonov + something else for JVR could be a win/win trade. Toronto's goaltending pipeline isn't great from what I can tell, but I am admittedly not well-versed about their talent pool. That would give Samsonov time to develop while Toronto is going through their rebuilding phase, and in return the Capitals would get a proven top 6 winger who might not be in Toronto's future after they rebuild.
 

SpinningEdge

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Yeah, Caps are going to lose someone in the expansion draft anyways, so no need to worry about that yet. If Vrana or Bowey plays next year, that's where it gets troubling.

If I'm the Caps - I think Schmidt is the guy to be moved. I just don't think he does anything well. He's weak physically... does not provide scoring offensively... and still does stupid mistakes... Only thing that's decent about him is his skating - but even that results in bad decision making at times.

I want a defender to either be able to provide somewhat consistent offense.... or a defender that can at least be strong defensively and be a true defensive defenseman. When you get both you have a keeper like Carlson - but when you have someone who does neither (Schmidt) I think he's easily replaceable.
 

SpinningEdge

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If GMBM is looking to get faster and a mmore offensive minded third line - why not just put MoJo there?

Centers being Backstrom, Kuzy, MoJo, and Beagle

That leaves two winger positions to fill

Ovi - Kuzy - Oshie
Burro - Backstrom - XXX
XXX - MoJo - Williams
Winnik - Beagle - Wilson

MoJo is a playmaker. Find another 20 or so goal scorer to put on his line. I thought MoJo played very well at cetner this year actually. Plus, MoJo is pretty good defensively and doesn't take penalties. He can be reliable out there.
 

SpinningEdge

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If it was offered..... would you guys be okay with Taylor Hall for John Carlson straight up? EDM needs a RHD.

I personally would if EDM included a pretty good pick too. Hall is fast, hits, puts up a point per game, I think he'd own w/ Kuzy on the second line... and I think Carlson after next year is going to get even more money than Hall anyways (Hall 6m/year ends in 2020).

I think Carlson is a top 15 D man in the league - but I think Hall is borderline top 10 player OVERALL in the league... Plus, (surprisingly) Hall is still only 24!
 
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SpinningEdge

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Surprisingly Carlson isn't in his prime yet. Hall is at his peak perhaps.

Possibly. Carlson is good - but let's not forget that in his career he has 160 ES points in 450+ NHL games. 7 seasons in the NHL and has 40+ points only ONCE.

Carlson is a good D guy - but I don't know if a guy who puts up 40 points/season is going to warrant 7.5 - 8+ million/season - and that's what JC could and probably will get next year.

Hall is a guy who is going to put up 30-40 goals every year and 70 points (at least). We still lack anyone on 2nd/3rd line that is a guy we can count on for 20 goals. Williams is older now, Kuzy is a pass first guy, Johansson is a pass first guy, and Burro hasn't proven to be trusted as the secondary goal scorer yet. I think Caps need another GOAL SCORER on their line. Look at Pitt when they added Kessell and how much of a difference that has made? He's kind of similar to Hall in way (comes from ****** team - big contract), but Hall being just 24 and signed til 2020 at 6m/season I think is a damn good deal. Plus, we have one of the best goalies in the league and our defense is a committee type defense. We don't have a guy logging 25-30 minutes every night. I think replacing Carlson is easier than ever adding a guy like Hall personally.
 

artilector

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If GMBM is looking to get faster and a mmore offensive minded third line - why not just put MoJo there?

Centers being Backstrom, Kuzy, MoJo, and Beagle

That leaves two winger positions to fill

Ovi - Kuzy - Oshie
Burro - Backstrom - XXX
XXX - MoJo - Williams
Winnik - Beagle - Wilson

MoJo is a playmaker. Find another 20 or so goal scorer to put on his line. I thought MoJo played very well at cetner this year actually. Plus, MoJo is pretty good defensively and doesn't take penalties. He can be reliable out there.

To pencil MJ in at 3C, you'd first have to convince Trotz, who didn't like him enough to keep there this last season.

Mojo-Williams also seems highly unconvincing, unless you somehow strike gold with their LW.

Not an easy problem. If they want to go heavy, they need to add Ward-type players, and Mojo does not really fit the bill in the bottom 6. If they want to get (physically) faster, well, they have a LOT of work to do.
 

SpinningEdge

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To pencil MJ in at 3C, you'd first have to convince Trotz, who didn't like him enough to keep there this last season.

Mojo-Williams also seems highly unconvincing, unless you somehow strike gold with their LW.

Not an easy problem. If they want to go heavy, they need to add Ward-type players, and Mojo does not really fit the bill in the bottom 6. If they want to get (physically) faster, well, they have a LOT of work to do.

The quote from GMBM was to get "faster" and "more offensive" - so we'll see.

Not a lot out there in FA besides some stuff that will be overpriced and 4-5M/season for 20 possible goals. Maybe this is the year they trade their late first rd pick...
 
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